What To Do With Donna Troy

[OBrianTallent]

IDK, the core of her character is so lost from the last reboot that reintroducing her character "as she should be" seems more likely to resonate with people. I'm more of a mindset that to be restored, she needs to be reset with an origin and motivation more fitting of her original character and then more stories that follow in that vein.

I'm less concerned about the toll of revolving/cascading reboots on Donna and more concerned about her motivations as a hero and individual stemming from her original personality and not the Artemis-lite character she's become.

I really can't argue with anything you've said here.

[Pinsir]

Have Wonder Woman remove her from continuity, permanently!

[donnafan]

Have Wonder Woman remove her from continuity, permanently!

If there's room enough for a whole Bat-family in the DC Universe, why isn't there room for an extended WW family that would include Donna Troy? I understand that some WW fans feel Donna Troy is redundant, however, that same logic would mean that we don't need a Nightwing, Supergirl, Wally West Flash, multiple Green Lanterns or, really any of the legacy characters. I disagree. Far as her crazy continuity, in this thread, there have been many creative and thoughtful approaches with how to untangle the character's continuity mess. Problem is: DC has traditionally mishandled female characters in general and Wonder Woman, in particular. I feel like they don't know how to handle strong, female characters. Case and point: Diana and Donna have both suffered de-powering various times over their publication history. Donna's nu52 debut for example, she can no longer fly. As I've stated multiple times, if this were a Bat or Super family character, the fans would be up in arms but, since this is a WW family character, meh.

[WonderScott]

If there's room enough for a whole Bat-family in the DC Universe, why isn't there room for an extended WW family that would include Donna Troy? I understand that some WW fans feel Donna Troy is redundant, however, that same logic would mean that we don't need a Nightwing, Supergirl, Wally West Flash, multiple Green Lanterns or, really any of the legacy characters. I disagree. Far as her crazy continuity, in this thread, there have been many creative and thoughtful approaches with how to untangle the character's continuity mess. Problem is: DC has traditionally mishandled female characters in general and Wonder Woman, in particular. I feel like they don't know how to handle strong, female characters. Case and point: Diana and Donna have both suffered de-powering various times over their publication history. Donna's nu52 debut for example, she can no longer fly. As I've stated multiple times, if this were a Bat or Super family character, the fans would be up in arms but, since this is a WW family character, meh.

I have said the same, regarding your first and last sentences.

[king81992]

If there's room enough for a whole Bat-family in the DC Universe, why isn't there room for an extended WW family that would include Donna Troy? I understand that some WW fans feel Donna Troy is redundant, however, that same logic would mean that we don't need a Nightwing, Supergirl, Wally West Flash, multiple Green Lanterns or, really any of the legacy characters. I disagree. Far as her crazy continuity, in this thread, there have been many creative and thoughtful approaches with how to untangle the character's continuity mess. Problem is: DC has traditionally mishandled female characters in general and Wonder Woman, in particular. I feel like they don't know how to handle strong, female characters. Case and point: Diana and Donna have both suffered de-powering various times over their publication history. Donna's nu52 debut for example, she can no longer fly. As I've stated multiple times, if this were a Bat or Super family character, the fans would be up in arms but, since this is a WW family character, meh.

DC is more interested in pushing the Bat Family than the Super or Wonder Family.

[WonderScott]

Here we go, how's this...

With mythological monsters returning and running amuck in the world, the Titans team up with Wonder Woman and deduce that a journey to the Underworld is needed to stop the onslaught and invasion and monsters at their source.

Surviving through many treacherous obstacles once passing through Doom's Doorway on Themyscira, they find Ceto, the Mother of Monsters, is behind the monstrous mayhem in a bid to return Earth to her children.

Puzzlingly, in her lair is a rough, clay statue that resembles Donna Troy.

During the melee with Ceto and some of her children, Nightwing and Wonder Woman feel a faint energy pulsing out from the statue. One star bolt later, the statue is shattered and the one, true Donna Troy, emerges.

Explaining that she had been abducted and imprisioned for years, all eyes fall on the one, fake Donna Troy as Ceto reveals she was created and defiled from the mud and muck and rock of Tartarus, embued with powers of the Titans of Myth embedded there and given a portion of the one, true Donna Troy's soul to be born as her child and general in her return to Earth. She had tricked the Amazon magicians to use this clay in their supposed creation of Donna Troy.

A fight between simulacrum and Donna Troy happens as the simulacrum goes full monstrosity in her "mother's" lair. Once defeated, Donna's soul is returned to her and she and Wonder Woman bind Ceto to Tartarus.

The team returns to Themyscira where their story is told and Donna is welcomed as an Amazon sister. She lives and trains with them for months, before one day when another Wonder villain attacks Themyscira and Donna gains her Wonder powers...but that's a story for another day...

[SiegePerilous02]

If there's room enough for a whole Bat-family in the DC Universe, why isn't there room for an extended WW family that would include Donna Troy? I understand that some WW fans feel Donna Troy is redundant, however, that same logic would mean that we don't need a Nightwing, Supergirl, Wally West Flash, multiple Green Lanterns or, really any of the legacy characters. I disagree. Far as her crazy continuity, in this thread, there have been many creative and thoughtful approaches with how to untangle the character's continuity mess. Problem is: DC has traditionally mishandled female characters in general and Wonder Woman, in particular. I feel like they don't know how to handle strong, female characters. Case and point: Diana and Donna have both suffered de-powering various times over their publication history. Donna's nu52 debut for example, she can no longer fly. As I've stated multiple times, if this were a Bat or Super family character, the fans would be up in arms but, since this is a WW family character, meh.

The same logic cannot really be applied to Donna as it would those other characters. All of them were created within their parent franchises, Donna was not. She was created by accident in the Teen Titans. Her tenuous ties with WW were severed entirely by COIE, and she's never recovered, because while Diana doesn't really need her (and has a slew of her own problems she needs to worry about), Donna has become increasingly terrible as a character/plot device because she lacks the simple, clean connection to Wonder Woman she had before.

It's kind of late in the game to build Donna up as an essential supporting character the way Nightwing and Supergirl are, because they have several decades on her by making SEVERAL appearances in the pages of the books starring their mentors. Dick Grayson is DC's third most published character, and a lot of that is as Robin, where he was attached to Batman at the hip. Donna has never spent nearly that much time with Diana. And Supergirl could never be redundant like Donna currently is, she's Superman distaff counterpart. Which is a role she's always filled and always will. We already have a Wonder Woman and a Wonder Girl, so what the hell is Donna gonna do?

[donnafan]

The same logic cannot really be applied to Donna as it would those other characters. All of them were created within their parent franchises, Donna was not. She was created by accident in the Teen Titans. Her tenuous ties with WW were severed entirely by COIE, and she's never recovered, because while Diana doesn't really need her (and has a slew of her own problems she needs to worry about), Donna has become increasingly terrible as a character/plot device because she lacks the simple, clean connection to Wonder Woman she had before.

It's kind of late in the game to build Donna up as an essential supporting character the way Nightwing and Supergirl are, because they have several decades on her by making SEVERAL appearances in the pages of the books starring their mentors. Dick Grayson is DC's third most published character, and a lot of that is as Robin, where he was attached to Batman at the hip. Donna has never spent nearly that much time with Diana. And Supergirl could never be redundant like Donna currently is, she's Superman distaff counterpart. Which is a role she's always filled and always will. We already have a Wonder Woman and a Wonder Girl, so what the hell is Donna gonna do?

So your whole argument that Donna doesn't deserve a place in the DCU or WW mythos is due to the fact that she wasn't created in the parent book and didn't appear in the parent franchise as many times as other legacy characters? If that were the case, Harley wouldn't deserve a place in the Bat universe because she was created by the cartoon. I could go on to name other characters but, the point of team books, particularly the JLA was to showcase characters that weren't represented in their own books. When Wonder Girl was created in Teen Titans there were strong ties to Wonder Woman and there were several stories, particularly in NTT that featured Themyscira and referenced Donna's ties to WW. Is that really discounted because it didn't happen in the main WW book?

[SiegePerilous02]

So your whole argument that Donna doesn't deserve a place in the DCU or WW mythos is due to the fact that she wasn't created in the parent book and didn't appear in the parent franchise as many times as other legacy characters? If that were the case, Harley wouldn't deserve a place in the Bat universe because she was created by the cartoon. I could go on to name other characters but, the point of team books, particularly the JLA was to showcase characters that weren't represented in their own books. When Wonder Girl was created in Teen Titans there were strong ties to Wonder Woman and there were several stories, particularly in NTT that featured Themyscira and referenced Donna's ties to WW. Is that really discounted because it didn't happen in the main WW book?

It's not that she doesn't deserve a spot, but more that she never really had a spot in the WW mythos, and it's easy to see why some question if she's worth it at this point with all the other baggage she has and when the WW franchise might not gain anything by having her. Back when her origins made sense during the NTT days, she still didn't actually appear in Wonder Woman all that much. You wouldn't even know Diana has a sister aside from the odd guest appearance from the Teen Titans. Diana and Hippolyta appeared in NTT, not so much Donna in reverse. And then Perez's reboot cut ties with her altogether. You can't possibly equate Donna's situation with someone like Dick Grayson (who should arguably be her cross-franchise equivalent) because the circumstances of their creation don't line up. Just because they are part of the same generation of heroes doesn't mean everything about them evenly lines up. Dick spends a massive amount of time with Bruce, to the point where is role and relationship with his mentor is not questioned. Diana barely interacts with Donna in comparison.

Harley is a very poor example. She's not a legacy character. She was also created in other media, and not by an editorial oversight. She appeared in a popular Batman cartoon and transitioned over to Batman comics. She has a consistent role that Donna never had, and is objectively more of a success than Donna ever was a solo act. They are a false equivalency.

Were any of those JLA characters created by accident? Cuz Donna was.

[donnafan]

It's not that she doesn't deserve a spot, but more that she never really had a spot in the WW mythos, and it's easy to see why some question if she's worth it at this point with all the other baggage she has and when the WW franchise might not gain anything by having her. Back when her origins made sense during the NTT days, she still didn't actually appear in Wonder Woman all that much. You wouldn't even know Diana has a sister aside from the odd guest appearance from the Teen Titans. Diana and Hippolyta appeared in NTT, not so much Donna in reverse. And then Perez's reboot cut ties with her altogether. You can't possibly equate Donna's situation with someone like Dick Grayson (who should arguably be her cross-franchise equivalent) because the circumstances of their creation don't line up. Just because they are part of the same generation of heroes doesn't mean everything about them evenly lines up. Dick spends a massive amount of time with Bruce, to the point where is role and relationship with his mentor is not questioned. Diana barely interacts with Donna in comparison.

Harley is a very poor example. She's not a legacy character. She was also created in other media, and not by an editorial oversight. She appeared in a popular Batman cartoon and transitioned over to Batman comics. She has a consistent role that Donna never had, and is objectively more of a success than Donna ever was a solo act. They are a false equivalency.

Were any of those JLA characters created by accident? Cuz Donna was.

OK. I give you that Harley was a bad example. My point to referencing her is that characters are still valid regardless if they were created in the parent franchise. I disagree that Donna never had a spot in the WW mythos. She did, just not in the main WW book. True, Donna's character background can't compare to Nightwing but, how many characters can compare to a character that was created in the 40s and enjoyed popularity and continual publication since? My point wasn't that all legacy characters are equal and line up, which they don't, it's that legacy characters such as Donna have a place in the DCU. As for the accident creation, many comics creations happened by accident. Spider-Man was almost Fly Man.

[SiegePerilous02]

OK. I give you that Harley was a bad example. My point to referencing her is that characters are still valid regardless if they were created in the parent franchise. I disagree that Donna never had a spot in the WW mythos. She did, just not in the main WW book. True, Donna's character background can't compare to Nightwing but, how many characters can compare to a character that was created in the 40s and enjoyed popularity and continual publication since? My point wasn't that all legacy characters are equal and line up, which they don't, it's that legacy characters such as Donna have a place in the DCU. As for the accident creation, many comics creations happened by accident. Spider-Man was almost Fly Man.

But there's only one main WW book, and then it rebooted Donna's place out of it in the 80s. She's been all over the map since. Aside from Dick, well Wally, Roy and Garth were all created in their parent franchises before being spun off into the Teen Titans. So were Supergirl and Batgirl. The whole generation has an uphill climb, but the circumstances of Donna's creation make her climb particularly difficult. We have historical evidence that the accidental creation, minimal role in the proper WW book and reboots have damaged Donna and created a lot of baggage. Something that her live action counterpart in Titans gets to avoid, so maybe she can thrive there.

And the Wonder Woman franchise has a ton of its own problems. Inconsistent history, supporting casts and villains are a major problem before we even begin to worry about Donna. Bringing Donna and her unfortunate baggage into the mix when she wasn't even a regular fixture of WW in the first place for potentially little to no gain is questionable.

And yeah, Spider-Man ended up as another costumed identity than he had in the development stages. Still nowhere near similar to Donna. He isn't a time traveling teen version of a popular adult superhero who was mistaken as a separate character, put into a separate franchise, and had a new role hastily made to cover the mistake. And no civilian name or backstory until a decade or so later. And then, once that was solidified, rebooted away and altered again.

Big lesson: COIE was awful and never should have happened. I like pre-Crisis Donna a lot and she was in a better place then. Transitioning her over to the WW mythos more frequently would have been more seamless back then. She'd be facing much better circumstances today if that mess hadn't happened.

[Pinsir]

If there's room enough for a whole Bat-family in the DC Universe, why isn't there room for an extended WW family that would include Donna Troy? I understand that some WW fans feel Donna Troy is redundant, however, that same logic would mean that we don't need a Nightwing, Supergirl, Wally West Flash, multiple Green Lanterns or, really any of the legacy characters. I disagree. Far as her crazy continuity, in this thread, there have been many creative and thoughtful approaches with how to untangle the character's continuity mess. Problem is: DC has traditionally mishandled female characters in general and Wonder Woman, in particular. I feel like they don't know how to handle strong, female characters. Case and point: Diana and Donna have both suffered de-powering various times over their publication history. Donna's nu52 debut for example, she can no longer fly. As I've stated multiple times, if this were a Bat or Super family character, the fans would be up in arms but, since this is a WW family character, meh.

If you asked me the same question about superfluous Batman, Green Lantern or Superman characters I'd say Wonder Woman should remove them from continuity as well.

I love the Silver Age Wondergirl stories, but we're never going to get that again.

[SiegePerilous02]

If you asked me the same question about superfluous Batman, Green Lantern or Superman characters I'd say Wonder Woman should remove them from continuity as well.

I love the Silver Age Wondergirl stories, but we're never going to get that again.

I'd be happy with a smaller Bat family and less Earth GL characters myself.

I'd rather not have WW explode to that level. It's all just the worst type of excess superhero comics can have, IMO. For sidekicks, Donna and Cassie should be it. Damian doesn't need a Wonder for his generation.

[Ascended]

If there's room enough for a whole Bat-family in the DC Universe, why isn't there room for an extended WW family that would include Donna Troy?.

I'd have no issue with a larger Wonder family, though I'd rather not see it as bloated as the Batcave or the Lantern Corps.

However, there's having a few more sidekicks and legacies, and then there's the mess that is Donna Troy. A larger Wonder family doesn't have to include Donna at all. And if DC can't make Donna make sense and mesh with the framework of Diana's world, then no, there's no room for Donna Troy in the Wonder family.

[Ascended]

Here we go, how's this...

So which Donna is the real Donna? The "orphan fire victim" version, or the mirror clone version, or what?

I like the idea overall, it'd be a solid way to write off the current origin and replace it with something else. I feel like the actual telling of the tale might get a little wonky in a serialized format but I think as a whole it would flow smoothly enough and it'd get Donna back on familiar, comfortable ground.

I assume when you say Donna was captured for years you mean just at the point where the Finches introduced the current version of Donna, right? Has it really been that long in DC time?