What To Do With Donna Troy

[Konja7]

Then you'd better reboot everything else along with her. Because going halfway with their reboots is how DC always runs into problems. That means we'd have to reboot Wonder Woman again too, and nobody wants that, especially not just for the sake of Donna. Reboot's out.

Why do you need to reboot Wonder Woman to reboot Donna Troy?

I mean Wonder Woman current story (after Rebirth) almost not include Donna Troy. Her connection with Donna is told only in Titans.

Also, I don't think many fans of Wonder Woman will oppose that Wonder Woman current story with Donna (Wonder Woman erasing the memories of Donna, so she wouldn't be a danger) is retconned.


In my opinion, DC should reintroduce Donna without her confusing past (maybe a younger version). That would be useful for the character.

[donnafan]

Why do you need to reboot Wonder Woman?

I mean Wonder Woman current story (after Rebirth) almost not include Donna Troy. Her connection with Donna is only in Titans.

Also, I don't think many fans of Wonder Woman will oppose that Wonder Woman current story with Donna (Wonder Woman erasing the memories of Donna, so she can't be a danger) is retconned.

Agreed. That was terrible, Wonder Woman, the avatar of truth was the originator of a lie. Plus, how was Donna such a threat if she was created as a weapon and first appeared as a 13-year old teenager (the age she first joined the Teen Titans)? Ancient magics created a terrible threat but, she's got to go through puberty first... Makes no sense. IDK very many fans who thought Donna's clay origin fixed or added to the character in any way.

As someone earlier mentioned here, the issues with Donna is part of a larger issue of her generation. The whole original Titans have been treated so badly. DC wiped out Legacy for the nu52 reboot and then retconned it back into continuity but, still doesn't really know what to do with that generation as a whole. They're not cute kid-sidekicks anymore and their not going to take the mantle of their predecessors so, dc struggles with what to do with them.

[Ascended]

Why do you need to reboot Wonder Woman to reboot Donna Troy?

Because only rebooting part of your shared universe never works out. We've seen DC try this several times since COIE, and the result is always the same; it doesn't actually fix things. If you reboot anything, you (should) reboot everything. Of course, you shouldn't reboot at all, but that's another discussion for another thread.

Now, a soft reboot that doesn't change continuity but spins off into a new direction? That's one thing. You can get away with that. But saying "This character never existed until this moment right here, so please forget all the previous stories you've been reading about this character and ignore the changes their absence would create" always causes problems. Always.

[Konja7]

Now, a soft reboot that doesn't change continuity but spins off into a new direction? That's one thing. You can get away with that. But saying "This character never existed until this moment right here, so please forget all the previous stories you've been reading about this character and ignore the changes their absence would create" always causes problems. Always.

All reboots (soft or hard) change continuity. Maybe it's continuity you don't care, but it's continuity changed.

I think Donna needs a total reboot at this point. Her current generation are in a pretty complicated situation, while her time as a Titan can't help her.

I'm pretty sure it will be fans angry with a reboot, but it also depends of the way they treat Donna.


For example: Supergirl Kara has been totally rebooted (two times), but she has mantained her fans.

[SiegePerilous02]

All reboots (soft or hard) change continuity. Maybe it's continuity you don't care, but it's continuity changed.

I think Donna needs a total reboot at this point. Her current generation are in a pretty complicated situation, while her time as a Titan can't help her.

I'm pretty sure it will be fans angry with a reboot, but it also depends of the way they treat Donna.


For example: Supergirl Kara has been totally rebooted (two times), but she has mantained her fans.

Reintroducing Donna yet again is just gonna add more confusion and yet another origin story to her already long convoluted list if them. Drawing so much attention to this and drawing it out/starting over is the absolute worst thing you could do. Its repeating the same mistakes that have ruined her.

Being attached to the Titans won't help her in the present, but not having the history in her past is doing no favors either. She's a shell of her former self. More reboots will make it worse. Establish that the simplified broad strokes happened and then move on, either with the Titans or without them.

Those two reboots have not done Supergirl any favors. She endures them better because she was DELIBERATELY created by Super writers in the Super books. She has a simple and set connection to the main character, she's always been more stable than Donna.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Has Greg Rucka ever written or discussed Donna Troy role or persona?

He once mentioned her in an interview in which he complained about how Cassie was created because the writer didn't want to deal with Donnas whole mess. Though I don't recall him actually voicing an opinion about Donna beyond that

[byrd156]

Ehh, I mean, you're not wrong, and I know Donna has a loyal fanbase.......but I don't know if saving Donna would be high on my priority list, either, so I can't totally blame DC for ignoring her so much. Though I would've taken the opportunities of New52 and Rebirth to, if nothing else, put her on some solid ground. I mean, you're rebooting so you might as well.

Of course, a reboot should actually be a proper reboot. I know DC wouldn't but I wish they went all the way back to the original sidekicks. But what we got was stuff like the mangled Titans history and too many others to mention in the New 52 reboot.

Donna should have just been introduced Diana's younger sister right from the start, sculpted from clay or rescued from an orphanage and later adopted. Both work just fine and establish her relation to Wonder Woman. I personally prefer her being her actual in actual blood.

Donna's main problem is that she's a Titans character first, hell she was created for the Teen Titans out of a misunderstanding of a Wonder Woman cover. When the Titans don't use her or the franchise is in crisis Donna suffers as well. There are good writers and creators like Jimenez who would write her well and use her with Wonder Woman. The late 90s and parts of the 2000s was probably the most time Donna would interact with Diana on a regular basis. She has the opposite problem that Dick has, he is too connected to Batman to go off and do his own thing. Donna is too unconnected from Diana for writers to want to do their own thing, if you get what I mean. Most people who aren't really into her character just write her off as the girl whose backstory is too confusing so they go in and mess it up even more instead of building her up. It's like if she was a house, all anyone wanted to work on was the foundation.

[Jackalope89]

Of course, a reboot should actually be a proper reboot. I know DC wouldn't but I wish they went all the way back to the original sidekicks. But what we got was stuff like the mangled Titans history and too many others to mention in the New 52 reboot.

Donna should have just been introduced Diana's younger sister right from the start, sculpted from clay or rescued from an orphanage and later adopted. Both work just fine and establish her relation to Wonder Woman. I personally prefer her being her actual in actual blood.

Donna's main problem is that she's a Titans character first, hell she was created for the Teen Titans out of a misunderstanding of a Wonder Woman cover. When the Titans don't use her or the franchise is in crisis Donna suffers as well. There are good writers and creators like Jimenez who would write her well and use her with Wonder Woman. The late 90s and parts of the 2000s was probably the most time Donna would interact with Diana on a regular basis. She has the opposite problem that Dick has, he is too connected to Batman to go off and do his own thing. Donna is too unconnected from Diana for writers to want to do their own thing, if you get what I mean. Most people who aren't really into her character just write her off as the girl whose backstory is too confusing so they go in and mess it up even more instead of building her up. It's like if she was a house, all anyone wanted to work on was the foundation.

Unfortunately, that whole generation of Titans are in trouble with DiDio in charge. Wally and Roy are dead, Dick now has "amnesia" and is calling himself "Ric", Garth had a cameo only to return to limbo, and Donna is currently an alcoholic.

The only reason members like Raven and Beast Boy haven't gotten the axe are because they keep getting de-aged and tossed to younger teams. Starfire's history with the New Teen Titans is a big question mark, and currently has more history with Jason than Dick. And Cyborg... Barring a line here and there, he's been relegated to the League with no Titans history.

A reboot for Donna, namely for her age and origin, would at least keep the heart of her character alive.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Honestly her status as a Teen Titan is what holds Donna back the most. When your only identifier is your like Wonder Woman and your a Teen Titan member, theres not alot going for you. Her problem leaves her worse off than pretty much anyone else on the team from the original/NTT eras with the exception of super obscure types like Kole, Omen, Mal Duncan, and Gnarth.

As pointed out the ones with histories with other groups and teams always have a lifeline to cling to. Dick, Garth, Roy, Wally, and Beast Boy will always have that connection to their bigger name counterparts to ensure they will always exist in some capacity. Especially Roy whose tied to Green Arrows origin, and Dick whose at this point more integral to the DC mythos than most characters with their own solo titles.

But the other factor is simply how their viewed by others at DC. Wolfman loves his creation Raven and he pushes for her to have her own mini series as often as he can and enjoys telling stories with her. He draws attention to this character that he likes and between this and her appearance in the cartoon, Ravens considered DCs greatest magical teenager.

Geoff Johns really loves Cyborg (who actually popped up on Superfriends as a hero alongside Superman and Batman well before his Teen Titans cartoon) and put alot of work into pushing him. This translated into three writers going onto that Cyborg solo book and each telling the exact same story as their predecessor with little effort to do anything original, but between the push for him in the comics which have for better or worse tied him to a stronger team, the multiple cartoon appearances, the movie appearance, Cyborg will never be doomed to obscurity.

Starfire whose simply popular in general. Amanda Conner, Lobdell, Williamson. Everyone wants to work with this character and do things with her. Put her on the outlaws. Make her a member of the Justice League. Give her a solo book where she french kisses dolphins and pals around with Atlee. Shes a character with alot of range who lends herself well to either serious or silly depictions. And between popping up in the cartoon and now the live action show shes got this whole push to sustain her.

Heck, even Bumblebee who seemed doomed forever to obscurity got an upgrade recently in the form of Superhero girls as a contemporary to Wonder Woman and you can bet in twenty years you will see a big push by fans of that cartoon getting into the business to push her into bigger things.

However Donna...Is not really that fortunate. People really do view her as a Wonder Woman character who never appears in Wonder Woman. Her origin is the only thing anyone fixates upon regarding her. She wasn't allowed to be used in either Teen Titans or Young Justice due to a complicated rights issue due to her technically being considered a Wonder Woman character. And the only time a writer showed any interest in Donna was when Marv Wolfman wrote himself into the comic as Terry Long to have himself marry Donna Troy. Nobody has really shown an interest in actually using Donna in anything because your left with the question of how would you even use Donna? Beyond his whole thing with Terry Long, Wolfman hasn't shown any real interest in Donna because he doesn't think he created the character.

By tying her to Wonder Woman theres an expectation that if she is going to do something without the Teen Titans it would probably involve Wonder Woman and due to her nature as a Teen Titan everyone expects her to do something involving them. But very few people have any interest in the character because shes generally viewed as just a teenage Wonder Woman. So because shes never done anything that particularly stands out and says 'hey, shes her own person and isn't just a younger copy of Wonder Woman' this is where she is. Shes never appeared in anything outside of comics before with Drusilla being the live action Wonder Girl and Cassie popping up in Young Justice. And efforts to use her actually get held back by DC who don't want to 'muddy the waters' when their thinking of doing a Wonder Woman movie or a Wonder Woman tv show (even if they don't show the same hesitation for the dozen or so Robins)

In interviews, most writers for DC nowadays talk about how their first exposure to a character was the cartoons, even confessing that everything they know about a character might be that cartoon. Why is Hawkgirl right now on the Justice League out of nowhere? Because she was in the cartoon. Same reason why Martian Manhunters a member for the first time in a decade.

Heck, the only time I can find that anyone used Donna for something outside of the Teen Titans or Wonder Woman was Robinson including her into the Justice League during a period where the Justice League was one of the worst selling books DC had (right before new 52) and he states he only did it because he was creating a team largely consisting of contemporaries taking over. Instead of Bruce he had Dick as Batman. Instead of a Green Lantern he had Jade. Instead of Superman he had Supergirl. Instead of a Flash he had Jesse Quick. And instead of Wonder Woman to use Donna Troy because when you have a character whose only defining feature is that she is an adult who used to be a younger counterpart to the hero she was based upon, what are you going to do? (oh and the team also threw in Starfire and Cyborg making this essentially the Teen Titans.)

Maybe if a writer showed interest in the character and simply pushed to write something with her that would make a difference. But that would also require getting aproval from both the editors for Wonder Woman and the editors for Teen Titans because ownership of the character really is that complicated. Though Teen Titans doesn't need to ask to use her in their book, it becomes harder when trying to ask about a solo. And the only writer whose shown an interest in giving her more of a leadership role went and made her an alchoholic whose incapable of actually handling it.

Perhaps the live action take by Geoff Johns will garner some attention and create some popularity for the character. Perhaps after a decade or so this could lead to an uplifted fan pushing to actually do something with Donna. But all this hinges on how its treated and if what we get is a Donna whose defined only by being essentially a younger Wonder Woman...Honestly alot hinges on what her origin will be, how shes depicted, and most importantly if she even gets any attention. If she becomes little more than a pedestal to uplift other characters without getting any development or her own story arc. Its no exageration to say that adaptions really lend themselves to the attention a character garners from creatives

[Ascended]

All reboots (soft or hard) change continuity. Maybe it's continuity you don't care, but it's continuity changed.

I think Donna needs a total reboot at this point. Her current generation are in a pretty complicated situation, while her time as a Titan can't help her.

I'm pretty sure it will be fans angry with a reboot, but it also depends of the way they treat Donna.

For example: Supergirl Kara has been totally rebooted (two times), but she has mantained her fans.

Yeah, reboots of any kind change continuity. But a soft reboot says "Hal Jordan still went crazy and evil, but he was influenced by a space parasite no one knew about until now" while a hard reboot says "You've never seen this character before, ever, and every story with them in it never happened or happened differently." You can work with the soft reboot, it might fudge the details of a story but that's it. A hard reboot? Especially for a single character in a wider universe? Never ends well.

I don't agree with reboots at all. I don't believe they are a narrative tool that should ever be used. But if it has to be done, go the soft route.

And Kara did not benefit from the reboots at all. She survived in spite of them because of her long history and strong, direct connections to her parent franchise. And even then, Kara herself was gone for what, fifteen, twenty years after COIE?

Of course, a reboot should actually be a proper reboot. I know DC wouldn't but I wish they went all the way back to the original sidekicks. But what we got was stuff like the mangled Titans history and too many others to mention in the New 52 reboot.

Can't agree with that one. I mean I enjoy stories where they're still teen heroes and sidekicks (like the Young Justice cartoon) but losing Nightwing? Or Wally-Flash? Price is too high brah!

It's like if she was a house, all anyone wanted to work on was the foundation.

I would point out that a foundation has to be fairly solid before you can build on it, but in Donna's case you're right. Even when writers were using her in the Wonder Woman book and Donna's origin wasn't a focus, no one really moved her forward or did anything of note with her. Unless you count Donna taking over for Diana during the Heinburg run, but that was like, not even a full issue.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

And Kara did not benefit from the reboots at all. She survived in spite of them because of her long history and strong, direct connections to her parent franchise. And even then, Kara herself was gone for what, fifteen, twenty years after COIE?

And despite their efforts to get rid of Kara specifically they went and made three more Supergirls in an effort to replace her. None of which actually had enough staying power to even be remembered, leading to Kara returning and the likes of Matrix (shape shifting glob), Linda Danvers (reincarnated angel from heaven), and Cir-El (Experiment of Bizarros) fading into obscurity. Id argue positive reception with things like her appearance in the Timmverse stuff also influenced her return

[CRaymond]

Here's another question, as I'm not a big NTT historian.

What stories aside from "Who is Wonder Girl/Troia/Donna Troy?" are Donna's major stories. I realize NTT is a lot like X-Men where story central protagonists tend to blend in and out of focus, but are there any that focus on her interior person, rather than straightening her convoluted history --or exploiting her semi-divine body?

[Konja7]

Yeah, reboots of any kind change continuity. But a soft reboot says "Hal Jordan still went crazy and evil, but he was influenced by a space parasite no one knew about until now" while a hard reboot says "You've never seen this character before, ever, and every story with them in it never happened or happened differently." You can work with the soft reboot, it might fudge the details of a story but that's it. A hard reboot? Especially for a single character in a wider universe? Never ends well.

I don't agree with reboots at all. I don't believe they are a narrative tool that should ever be used. But if it has to be done, go the soft route.

Although I don't love reboots, I don't think these are inherently bad. Also, I suspect a new Reboot is close with Doomsday clock.

We are speaking about Donna, I don't think a soft reboot can help her. She's in problems for two situations, her confused (and sometimes horrible) origin and the mistreatment of her generation by DC.

A complete reboot can benefit Donna if DC knows how develop her (I think a younger version of Donna would help). New 52 was a good posibility of a new start for Donna, but they ruined this.

And Kara did not benefit from the reboots at all. She survived in spite of them because of her long history and strong, direct connections to her parent franchise. And even then, Kara herself was gone for what, fifteen, twenty years after COIE?

Kara was gone, because she died. The reboot brought her back.

I wouldn't say Kara's really affected for those reboot. Kara is more affected for the directions.

[Ascended]

And despite their efforts to get rid of Kara specifically they went and made three more Supergirls in an effort to replace her. None of which actually had enough staying power to even be remembered, leading to Kara returning and the likes of Matrix (shape shifting glob), Linda Danvers (reincarnated angel from heaven), and Cir-El (Experiment of Bizarros) fading into obscurity. Id argue positive reception with things like her appearance in the Timmverse stuff also influenced her return

Just one more example of DC trying to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted a Supergirl in their universe because its a strong brand, but also wanted Clark to be the only Kryptonian left. Not surprising when their half-ass attempts to meet those two needs in the middle failed.

And yeah, I'd guess that the DCAU played a role in Kara's return, even if the DCAU version wasn't Kryptonian either.

Although I don't love reboots, I don't think these are inherently bad. Also, I suspect a new Reboot is close with Doomsday clock.

We are speaking about Donna, I don't think a soft reboot can help her. She's in problems for two situations, her confused (and sometimes horrible) origin and the mistreatment of her generation by DC.

Well, there's nothing that can be done about DC's view on the NTT generation. We either wait for WB to slap Didio with an order to stop abusing those characters, or we wait for Didio and company to be replaced.

A soft reboot.....I dont know if it would help Donna. She's such a mess she might be beyond that kind of help. But I think if they said "The orphan-burning building origin is legit, everything else is mind manipulation by a villain (Dark Angel)" that *might* be enough to get Donna on solid ground. Maybe.

Rebooting her completely......I just don't see it working. They've done that. A bunch of times. It hasn't worked yet.

Kara was gone, because she died. The reboot brought her back.

I wouldn't say Kara's really affected for those reboot. Kara is more affected for the directions.

Kara didn't see publication for almost two decades after COIE. I'd say she was affected plenty. And while I don't know exactly how the decision to kill her came about, I would expect that DC's management, who already seemed to know they wanted a blank slate for Clark, knew they wouldn't be bringing Kara into the post-Crisis landscape so they were free to kill her off. It created drama and DC knew they wouldnt be using her afterwards anyway.

[Konja7]

I don't trust the replacement of Didio and other higher ups of the company will repair things regarding Donna's generation.

Their replacements will probably share the same ideas that put Donna's generation on this situation.

Kara didn't see publication for almost two decades after COIE. I'd say she was affected plenty. And while I don't know exactly how the decision to kill her came about, I would expect that DC's management, who already seemed to know they wanted a blank slate for Clark, knew they wouldn't be bringing Kara into the post-Crisis landscape so they were free to kill her off. It created drama and DC knew they wouldnt be using her afterwards anyway.

My point was that the Reboots for Kara don't cause her dissapearance for almost two decades. COIE was a reboot for the Universe, not for Kara (she just died on COIE).

The first reboot for Kara brought Kara back.