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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    My argument was "Mary Jane is not some great unknown within the larger Spider-Man franchise."
    it's not outside the realms of possibility. all my mates know here as "spider-man's girlfriend", and some honestly didn't know there was a difference between her and gwen.

    mj definitely has a widespread presence in the franchise, but that doesn't necessarily translate as impact or resonance. then again...maybe it does. i'm pretty sure nobody has or ever will do any research into proving it.
    troo fan or death

  2. #122
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Okay, you are putting words in my mouth er on my fingers. My original post was in response to another user who posted MJ was like "a rubber band" which always snapped back due to her overwhelming popularity. What I said in response was that her popularity might not be as universal as the other poster assumes. I then used examples from my own life to show things are not clear regarding the matter.
    Do you think they're going to have Peter X Spider-Gwen in the comics?

    (Legit asking.)

  3. #123
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Do you think they're going to have Peter X Spider-Gwen in the comics?

    (Legit asking.)
    Of course not, maybe in other media though (which granted is unlikely).
    "You'll never learn to fly now 'til you're standing at the cliff."

  4. #124
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Of course not.
    MJ and Spider-Gwen fill out different roles in the franchise. SG has certainly earned her spot. (Although the idea that they're gonna ship her with Miles Morales is kinda weird. But I digress. Remember in one of the Age of Apocalypse What-If stories where they shipped Gwen with Quicksilver? What was up with that, lol?)

  5. #125
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    MJ and Spider-Gwen fill out different roles in the franchise...
    That they do. Although part of me remains concerned Those In Charge of Marvel will never let Peter have a long-term love interest again. He and MJ may get back together but their status will be at the mercy of each new writer moving forward.
    Last edited by Celgress; Yesterday at 08:45 PM.
    "You'll never learn to fly now 'til you're standing at the cliff."

  6. #126
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    That they do. Although part of me reminds concerned Those In Charge of Marvel will never let Peter have a long-term love interest again. He and MJ may get back together but their status will be at the mercy of each new writer moving forward.
    Indeed. On-again/off-again/On-again/Off-again from now until Marvel stops publishing comics.

    (Mix in a fling with the Black Cat every once in a while, and some temporary new character who clearly only exists so they can do "Spider-Man can't tell his girlfriend who he is" shenanigans.)

  7. #127
    Mighty Member Inversed's Avatar
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    My understanding regarding majority of the general public and their reactions toward MJ and Gwen is that they know who they are, that they are/were his love interests, and that Gwen also can come in Spider-Gwen variant. The big difference I think is I don't think they care too much regarding what their individual "character traits" are, just if they're done well in whatever medium being viewed.

    For example, I know several people on this forum have talked about how they don't like that Mary Jane in the PS4 game is a reporter because its not true to her character, but I would probably say it's not a big deal to most people who play, they know MJ as "Spider-Man's girlfriend" and they think she is just an all-around great character in the game, so they like her for all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    MJ and Spider-Gwen fill out different roles in the franchise. SG has certainly earned her spot. (Although the idea that they're gonna ship her with Miles Morales is kinda weird. But I digress. Remember in one of the Age of Apocalypse What-If stories where they shipped Gwen with Quicksilver? What was up with that, lol?)
    I do think it's interesting, and actually kind of like, that Miles is the only person we've seen Spider-Gwen attracted to in some way, they haven't tried to shove any other love interests or ships into it. Even Peter they've stated she was never really attracted to him romantically, just as a good friend. And 616 Peter would just be really weird, for both the whole "I was a close to a version of you that died because of me", and also the age gap.
    Last edited by Inversed; Yesterday at 09:23 PM.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  8. #128
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    MJ and Spider-Gwen fill out different roles in the franchise. SG has certainly earned her spot. (Although the idea that they're gonna ship her with Miles Morales is kinda weird. But I digress. Remember in one of the Age of Apocalypse What-If stories where they shipped Gwen with Quicksilver? What was up with that, lol?)
    What is Spider-Gwen's role in the franchise?

    As the main female spider-person? For being the spider from an alternate universe that's wacky and different? For keeping the idea of Gwen Stacy alive even if she's basically a completely different Gwen Stacy?

    And that's not even getting into her lack of any kind of defined or established dynamic with Peter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    For example, I know several people on this forum have talked about how they don't like that Mary Jane in the PS4 game is a reporter because its not true to her character, but I would probably say it's not a big deal to most people who play, they know MJ as "Spider-Man's girlfriend" and they think she is just an all-around great character in the game, so they like her for all that.
    I think PS4!MJ is probably one of the better-written and meatier adaptions of Mary Jane even if I also think you would have a hard time telling her and Lois Lane apart at times.
    I do think it's interesting, and actually kind of like, that Miles is the only person we've seen Spider-Gwen attracted to in some way, they haven't tried to shove any other love interests or ships into it. Even Peter they've stated she was never really attracted to him romantically, just as a good friend. And 616 Peter would just be really weird, for both the whole "I was a close to a version of you that died because of me", and also the age gap.
    Frankly I don't think Gwen really has a future as a love interest for Peter anymore, in any regard, especially as Spider-Gwen.

  9. #129
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Do you think they're going to have Peter X Spider-Gwen in the comics?

    (Legit asking.)
    Earth-65 Gwen will never be with a Peter Parker. (Until a writer completely disregards her character development.)

    She traveled to 616's past and met her counterpart (thus turning into 617) and was weirded out by seeing how she and Peter were together.

  10. #130
    Mighty Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I do think it's interesting, and actually kind of like, that Miles is the only person we've seen Spider-Gwen attracted to in some way, they haven't tried to shove any other love interests or ships into it. Even Peter they've stated she was never really attracted to him romantically, just as a good friend. And 616 Peter would just be really weird, for both the whole "I was a close to a version of you that died because of me", and also the age gap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Frankly I don't think Gwen really has a future as a love interest for Peter anymore, in any regard, especially as Spider-Gwen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Earth-65 Gwen will never be with a Peter Parker. (Until a writer completely disregards her character development.)

    She traveled to 616's past and met her counterpart (thus turning into 617) and was weirded out by seeing how she and Peter were together.
    And on Peter's end, he kind of shot down even humoring the idea at the end of Clone Conspiracy because, despite the obvious physical similarities, she's a totally different person than the Gwen he had fallen in love with.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  11. #131
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Never really read the Ultimate comics.
    Really good read as far as Spider-Man is concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    I do feel the modernization of her character for the film though probably does part in what's being perceived as a similarity? I don't think any one character owns the market on being head strong or sassy, or should.
    Some I do think were just happenstance due to similar adaptation ideas. However, given that USM was stated to be the source material, I strongly suspect that many of the parallels in the two love stories were borrowed, even if the girlfriend was swapped out. Cases in point:

    - While ASM makes a point that Peter and Gwen don't know each other prior to the movie and USM states that Peter and MJ had been close their entire lives, I do find it interesting that both start out with the feelings being somewhat unrequited although not unwelcome; in the former, Peter seems to have been crushing on Gwen for some time before they start talking and she takes interest in him. In the latter, it's established that MJ had fallen in love with Peter long before the series began but Peter himself doesn't seem to have quite worked out that he reciprocates until after she accidentally blurts it out. While I think this probably happenstance due to streamlining the story and two acquaintances having a spark they decide to explore is a different story then best friends becoming more then friends, it is interesting who similar the situation is.

    - Peter's uncle plays matchmaker early on when visiting school/the mall where both happen to be at; in ASM he points out to Gwen that Peter has her picture on his desktop and in USM he makes a point of calling her over to Peter's table (some of the earlier issues almost read like Peter and MJ didn't know each other nearly as well as later series would indicate, as if Bendis retconned his initial ideas).

    - In both cases the lady makes the first move; Gwen invites Peter to dinner with her family while MJ asks Peter on a date. Once again could be coincidental and different in circumstances (Peter and Gwen are already flirting with each other when this happens while Peter has no idea that MJ saw the invitation as a date over two friends hanging out), but still interesting.

    - MJ/Gwen is the first person Peter reveals his secret identity to and the confession is what kickstarts their romantic relationship. (The confession is under different circumstances and plays very differently, but still.)

    - MJ/Gwen both play a role as someone Peter can confide in regarding his dual life and a primary role in his social circle. Both series also play the "break up to protect her" trope (under different circumstances) and have similar side stories where Peter doesn't take it very well but gets involved in other stuff (tracing his father in ASM2, doing the black suit/Venom story in the comics) before the couple reconcile.

    - Peter and MJ use the school bleachers as "their" spot for hanging out, which we see Peter and Gwen do in ASM1.

    - Both MJ and Gwen run a villain over with a truck to save Peter (Green Goblin and Electro respectively).

    - As something of a role reversal, when movie Gwen/USM Peter was killed in action, Peter/MJ did not handle the death very well at all and had an extremely long grieving process, albeit in Peter's case finding the will to continue as Spider-Man (although the series being canceled cut the arc short) while MJ never seemed to completely get over her loss until it was discovered that Peter had actually survived, which ended with them basically secretly eloping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    What Gwen also is in the Amazing movies though is: an academic, a science nerd (who ends up working for Oscorp no less), someone who has a police chief for a father, someone who isn't a model or an actress, and, y'know, blonde. So to me, pretty un-MJ.
    Early in USM the comics, MJ was shown to be more academically inclined then her original incarnation, albeit not her defining trait or to the prodigy levels that movie Gwen was shown (more like a good student). As another poster pointed out, she was called "Brainy Janey" a few times. That DK Spider-Man reference book also insinuated that MJ's intelligence was one factor in why Peter fell for her (canoncity questionable, but still).

    The police chief dad is purely Gwen's own. Ultimate MJ wasn't a model or an actress either, though (although there were jokes about those on occasion). However, my position is not that ASM movie Gwen is just Ultimate MJ renamed. What I think happened was they decided to use Gwen as the leading lady (maybe to do something different then the previous series), but added a lot of elements from Ultimate MJ into the mix during the writing process.

    I do think that they're primarily in the characters' role in the narrative then anything else. I mean, personality-wise they are different. The relationship dynamics do have their differences, like Peter and Gwen being a lot more flirty while Ultimate Peter and MJ seem to continue the friendship they initially had alongside dating (if that makes any sense). Even the endings are different, with one being a tragedy while the other giving the couple a happy ending. But, as outlined above, there's a lot of parallels.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

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