Do you think Gwen Stacy should ever return?

[Miles To Go]

adaptations that use her should stop killing her.

She's only died in one adaptation so far (ASM II), she survived Spider-Man 3, she survived Spectacular Spider-Man (though Wiesman hinted he'd have killed her in the DTV movies that weren't made), I'm pretty certain she'll survive the current Spider-Man cartoon too.

[Hypestyle]

I'd like the real Gwen to "come back" someday but of course the editorial mandate is "dead is dead" with her. I'm not interested in a clone coming back then being "accepted" as her or anything like that.

[Thievery]

Absolutely not. And Norman Osborn should return to the grave to keep her company.

[bob.schoonover]

I have a hard time seeing a writer making a convincing argument for Gwen as Peter's "one true love" at this point, not because Peter doesn't still feel strongly for Gwen (he does), but romantically he pretty much outgrew her.

I completely agree, but what's the pitch for keeping her in the story long-term if she isn't either (a) the one true love (or going back to her as part of a love triangle?) or (b) suddenly a super hero (which would be pretty redundant)? If there's no long term way to keep her in the story*, what's the point of bringing her back? I'm not really pitching "one true love" so much as saying "bring her back if and only if there is a really good plan and purpose for Gwen."

*It's not like Pete is lacking for supporting cast members already - bring back Gwen w/o a plan and she becomes Carlie Cooper or Deb Whitman. Or Gwen's kids. Or, you know, she dies again.

[spidergwen]

Speaking as a completely objective third party observer with absolutely no personal interest in the matter I say 1000% hell yes.

[jetengine]

616 Gwen was so boring every other version of her essentially just uses her name and is blonde.

Thats it.

[LK3185]

616 Gwen was so boring every other version of her essentially just uses her name and is blonde.

Thats it.

Exactly, and since their are other versions,especially Spider-Gwen, I bet Marvel believes they don't even need a 616 Gwen alive. That's really the only way I see 616 Gwen returning.. If a writer brings her up now, Editors now would probably just say we have a Gwen. Someone we're marketing and is pretty popular as is.

[Celgress]

...With TASM, whatever their plans were, once they saw that Garfield and Stone were the the only thing about the movie everyone liked, they should have changed course...

I agree with you Garfield and Stone did a great job with what they were given. I suspect if the series was made today Gwen would have evolved into a version of Ghost Spider rather than being slain. Although I could see a fake-out regarding the bridge incident. Peter would fail to save her instead her new powers kick in so she essentially would save herself.

[Batman Begins 2005]

I couldn't agree with you more as neither has done anything that warrants the resurrections which spoiled their memorable exit stories.

Co-sign.

Gwen coming back needs a real (longer than a story arc) hook and plan. Is she Peter's new one true love (and if so, why her, and why are we doing one true loves again)? What's her role in the book otherwise? Can her manner of return undo Sins Past? If not, why are we even doing this?

The reason Kraven's return was dumb was there was no hook for keeping him around - it's not just that his death was iconic, but his rebirth didn't change him to make him interesting. Norman's return wasn't because he was planned out, but because they'd written themselves into a corner and couldn't think of another way out (which led to those weird other Goblin stories, insane retcons to keep Norman out of jail, etc.). Bucky, on the other hand, had a very well-planned return which included giving him a new place in the MU, a pitch for a new series, etc. I'm out on Gwen coming back unless her return has at least Bucky-level planning on making the new status quo work.

Thank you both.

[AngelJD]

Going even further with this and using imagination (as I expect writers use to make storylines and characters) a few other thoughts entered my mind (as I tried to sleep yesterday).

Like we are stating Gwen of 616 back and living as her return...why is that the only option when we have mystical other ways to see characters?
We are saying this that Peter and MJ will know she's back. That's not required for a 'return' really.
Is it to last or maybe we know of a time limit Gwen has on her (and maybe SHE knows it).
Why assumed that a writer will just do the same things with a character(s) if 'returned' when other factors or events and directions are open?
What is Gwen's goals in this?
Plus if she back on the plane of the living (her living or not) did she come back exactly the same or different even in body?

The how in a 'return' is important (note I say return not resurrection and back living on the Earth 616 as that is limited in imagination and we must expand and challenge how we think and creativity).

For another factor I think the basic answer to this is not a 'should' but a 'could' and for 'coulds' the answer is going to be YES because for writers anything is possible they might make. The matters are quality and long term plans (but not too long that the progression takes to long or movement in plot and developments then that will just annoy people in the lack of pace) foremost.

We established with how long she has been dead the more important and quality the plan must be in her return. I think MJ one 'died' yet was so short lived that her return was hand waved easily and had no need of something big for it. Logan has come back (which many expected to happen at some point) but had a series dedicated to it due to his fame plus gone for about 5 years I think. If Gwen 'return' in any form the setup and plans will have to be multiple story arcs wide and a reason of significance importance.


So now let's brainstorm "Significance Importance" reasons and events for Peter, MJ and/or Gwen of 616 that the multiple story arc Gwen must handle (let's give her a mission that might be linked to why she has returned).

Right off the bat I can think of one:

OMD

This storyline 10 years ago still enrages fans and is CONSTANTLY a talking point. Such a emotion bringer is perfect to be a bases for a primary reason and mission for Gwen and her return.

Also by the way I would LOVE to cover why the Devil wanted this deal he created in the first place and the terms. Let's face it The devil might of ended the marriage and resulted in new memories of a break up...then Peter and MJ decided they don't know why they broke up, got back together and just remarry but now Harry lives. What advantage and victor is that for the devil to give a darn so much? So many people are dying and are married but why care about this one marriage in the grand scheme of things? Was this like candy to him that it's lack importance but he enjoys simple evils like temportly ending marriages? What 'safeguards' did the Devil put in that would result in Peter and MJ unable to get married agian and result in all attempts to restart a relationship o fall if he really cared about that? Why Peter and MJ of all characters and marriages and possible kids they might have?


Going back to Gwen and conditions of return and alternate ways of return then just resurrection or never been killed:
Now how is it that she has returned? After being dead and not seen for so long by other characters and just general by us how can she return?

Now going towards being back on 'the living plane' we can't do hand waves or science to bring her back due to length of her gone/dead on 616. Her death happened and I feel her death is in the past is for time established due to the time that has gone by. So I don't feel "oh I didn't die from that somehow" reasonings won't work nor "It's was a actress" reasonings and moreso. Plus if she brought back by science that just going to hit those 'clone sagas' to much to question by fans 'is she back?'

No I think she was killed (accidentally by Peter's web) and for her having a return we must go to the spiritual and mystical.

Now in the worlds there are many religions and on 616 tons of magic, magical, and beliefs such as 'souls', guardian angels, spirits, afterlife, and more so beyond the body we inhabit right now.
I'll get back to this later as a possible way it can be used and important but now let me go forth to a possible plan then the whys.





Right now Peter and MJ seem to be going on the right path to a relationship and possible marriage once more in the series much to fans delight. Then it falls apart for some reason much to fans anger.
Then let's say two woman enter into the cast. For the sake of this let's call one 'Annie May' and the other 'Lilith Lamashtu'.

Annie who seems to be a 'shipper on deck' for Peter and MJ and instantly connects with both. Annie seems to know more than she appears and also seems to really value the time she spends with Peter, MJ and a few others.
At one point MJ planing on placing some flowers for departed friends enters the cemetery and see's Annie May leaving. Going around MJ finds all the people she plans on giving a flower on there resting place already has fresh flowers just placed such as Flash, Uncle Ben, and few dead friends, and two dedicated for Captain Stacy...but not for Gwen.

But the other Lilith makes moves on Peter and seems to be blocking and using underhanded tactics to make sure MJ and Peter are not together (maybe even possible fatal) but the other woman Annie always seems to get in her way in the nick of time. The two clearly hate and seem to be in a major battle but the details are unknown. At one point Lilith mocks 'Annie' stating her time is almost up. Lilith also comments what inspired her to be called 'Annie May' and the other woman states it was a reminder to her of the two childs she failed and a motivation to not fail the third that WILL be coming and she WILL protect.

[AngelJD]

Now usually for 'big reveals' we expect to see such things in the main series. However recently in the 'B series' Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man of the SPider-man series of books it was that series that a unexpected big impact and disruption to a norm happened and move characters in a different light and direction from a norm. Peter reveals to Johan he is Spider-man.
Since then a new direction has happened for both in relationship and more so affecting how they are in the main series as well.

So right now we have these "What If's" that allow for tons of ideas to be explored (plus not being 616 allows for things to happen with fans just hoping for a good story and like how May Parker/Spider-girl got started and great story moving to a Multiverse series).
So let's say we have a "What If' story issue about to come out around this time in the story arc and mysteries. 'What If': Gwen Stacy right after death became a spirit and was around, her thoughts, and even unknown actions she has done in the history of the Spider series since?

Covering in one or two pages each due to how much to cover: the issue right after she died, the wedding of MJ and Peter, Clone Saga, all those time Peter and J got 'lucky' something just missed them or a impact could of been worse (like somebody broke their fall), the poisoning of the first baby and finding Norman to be the reason, The Civil War, Gwen failing in moving the trajectory of the bullet (as she done many times before for Peter and MJ) in time hitting May, 4 pages on OMD (this will play a utmost importance soon), and some other events. During this issue we find why Gwen never went to heaven but stayed as she was destined to become Peter and MJs child guardian angel and she had a mission to keep the two (and any of her friends around) safe. She failed horribly with the first child trying to protect Peter when her 'danger senses' was going crazy not knowing it was for mother/MJ not the father and learned to late resulting in Ben that she liked and May to die. When the Devil made the deal despite her protests she tried to scream and motivate them not to take Gwen felt she failed the second Annie. Gwen's as a spirit trying to get them back together but the concoct glows and goes between the two every time at some point causing events and actions that keep MJ and Peter away.
Gwen understanding she must break that magical wall and deal before Peter and Mj can get back together finally decides to makes her own deal with the devil by a challenge.

Gwen mocks and plays on the Devil ego to get the new deal done and find why the Devil even cared in the first place about this marriage. It was because a child of Peter's and MJ's was foretold to strike him down and make him lose his power during the coming of a new grand way between angels, demons, and humans coming.
Gwen and the Devil work out the terms of the challenge. For one year (or whatever time limit setup) the Devil will keep the magic of the OMD deal at bay that blocks Peter and MJ reuniting plus Gwen acting as a living game piece for the side of good gets to return to the moral realm giving her a chance in affecting things more so physically on the living plane in her hopes of having the two 'renew their vows' and be married agian before the time limit is up. But some catches: Nobody living can know Gwen has returned during the time limit plus the devil can send over into the living world a game piece acting in his behalf for the side of evil: Lilith. Lilith has had a hand in many dark chapters of history and religions including causing disruptions to 'Adam and Eve' and 'patron succubus goddess' of the unborn.
If Gwen wins by having Peter and MJ marry each other before the time limit is up the OMD Deal affecting Peter and MJ will be broken and Gwen returns as a Guardian Angel for the third daughter they will have.
But if she fails not only will the OMD deal forevermore be the wall that keeps Peter and MJ from being together but Gwen then transforms into a 'fallen angel' must become a new succubus for the Devil doing many wicked things against her will against her old friends and the world.
With a new deal signed Gwen returns to the moral world in a new body that people know as 'Annie May'. At the end of the 'What If' issue it's revealed the world shown IS 616 (making a twist in a 'What If' story always being a multiverse story and showing a big reveal in it at the same time)!

The next story arc is then the build up to everything and the final story arc for 'Annie May'/Gwen and Lilith the succubus.
At the end of the story arc 'Annie May' says goodbye and happy to have this time with them once more (they don't know what she's talking about) and Gwen returns as a spirit and Guardian Angel role and form (and Peter and MJ never knew).



This is just a quick basic idea that came into my head as I tried to go to sleep and tons of facts and details and story arcs and developments would have to be worked out. A long time planning out and working out the kinks and setup for everything to go down properly a writer (plus assistance by others to see weaknesses a writer might be blind to) must do. Even if it's 5 years of planning maybe it will be worth it if executed and quality is top notch and a masterpiece saga that affects things and answers questions also. Something that 'warrants' a 'return' in some form and why things are being done and aftereffects and history taking into account.

[Celgress]

Inspired in part by what AngelJD has written (see above) I do have an idea to bring back 616 Gwen. However, I know many will hate it. Here goes nothing -

Have it be that Gwen ended up in Hell because of her dealings with Norman in Sins Past. Mephisto meanwhile was looking for a way to eliminate the future threat to him posed by any children Peter & MJ would produce. Driven mad by her years-long sojourn in Hell 616 Gwen starts blaming MJ for "stealing her life with Peter" and at Peter for "forgetting about her". Gwen approaches Mephisto and claims she knows how to eliminate the threat. If he gives her a second chance at life she'll tell him. Mephisto not caring much about one tainted soul agrees. Gwen tells Mephisto that Peter is blindly devoted to his aged Aunt. If Aunt May is put in danger Peter would gladly make a deal with Mephisto; thus we get OMD. However, OMD is now failing. Gwen has already been brought back by Mephisto and is living comfortably somewhere else. Mephisto furious shows up at her door and confronts Gwen. Mephisto tells Gwen the deal is off. In a panic Gwen offers a new deal; she'll keep Peter & MJ apart even if it means killing one or both. Mephisto, after some convincing, agrees. He grants her demonically based powers that mirror those of Ghost Spider and gives her so long to complete the task. Anyone, there you are.

[LK3185]

Inspired in part by what AngelJD has written (see above) I do have an idea to bring back 616 Gwen. However, I know many will hate it. Here goes nothing -

Have it be that Gwen ended up in Hell because of her dealings with Norman in Sins Past. Mephisto meanwhile was looking for a way to eliminate the future threat to him posed by any children Peter & MJ would produce. Driven mad by her years-long sojourn in Hell 616 Gwen starts blaming MJ for "stealing her life with Peter" and at Peter for "forgetting about her". Gwen approaches Mephisto and claims she knows how to eliminate the threat. If he gives her a second chance at life she'll tell him. Mephisto not caring much about one tainted soul agrees. Gwen tells Mephisto that Peter is blindly devoted to his aged Aunt. If Aunt May is put in danger Peter would gladly make a deal with Mephisto; thus we get OMD. However, OMD is now failing. Gwen has already been brought back by Mephisto and is living comfortably somewhere else. Mephisto furious shows up at her door and confronts Gwen. Mephisto tells Gwen the deal is off. In a panic Gwen offers a new deal; she'll keep Peter & MJ apart even if it means killing one or both. Mephisto, after some convincing, agrees. He grants her demonically based powers that mirror those of Ghost Spider and gives her so long to complete the task. Anyone, there you are.

That's actually a solid Recon but it also doesn't make Gwen likable which in turn will make her expendable in the story.

[Celgress]

That's actually a solid Recon but it also doesn't make Gwen likable which in turn will make her expendable in the story.

True, but the way I look at it is with Spider-Gwen around 616 Gwen will never become more likable than her anyway. So, why not give 616 Gwen a role other than superheroine or nice character in general?

[WeirdSpider]

What's the point? If Gwen was brought back what would her role be? She can't be a love interest because as OMD proved Marvel will "never" let Peter get married "again".
I really do think that shipping plays a big role in Gwen fans wanting the character brought back.