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  1. #76
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Is it the parts they clearly cribbed from the Raimi films?
    No, just the parts that I prefer over MCU Spidey .

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Gwne had to borrow traits from Mary Jane for those movies
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Never got that impression once.
    The character does have several parallels to Ultimate MJ, down to specific scenes taken right from the comics. Whether this is just a byproduct of using USM as the source material or happenstance by common ideas of how modernize a teen Spidey love story can be debated. (I don't see it as a good or bad thing, just an interesting, to be honest.)
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  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'll still defend some parts of those movies .
    All the parts where Peter is in the Spider-Man suit doing Spider-Man things and anytime Peter and Gwen together are still excellent. The romance and the portrayal of Spider-Man I think is done the best in those films than in either the Raimi films or MCU. Shame that everything else about the movies is not so much.

  4. #79
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    All the parts where Peter is in the Spider-Man suit doing Spider-Man things and anytime Peter and Gwen together are still excellent. The romance and the portrayal of Spider-Man I think is done the best in those films than in either the Raimi films or MCU. Shame that everything else about the movies is not so much.
    The romance is definitely not good. It's just that the actors are charismatic and have good chemistry so you might forget that Peter stalks Gwen and this is presented as being charming.

  5. #80
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    All the parts where Peter is in the Spider-Man suit doing Spider-Man things and anytime Peter and Gwen together are still excellent. The romance and the portrayal of Spider-Man I think is done the best in those films than in either the Raimi films or MCU. Shame that everything else about the movies is not so much.
    And the best part? No Iron Man .
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The romance is definitely not good. It's just that the actors are charismatic and have good chemistry so you might forget that Peter stalks Gwen and this is presented as being charming.
    I guess we haven't really gotten a "good" romance in a Spider-Man movie since the Raimi films.

    (Unless you count PS4 Spider-Man ).

  6. #81
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And the best part? No Iron Man .
    Better Iron Man than Richard Parker.

    I guess we haven't really gotten a "good" romance in a Spider-Man movie since the Raimi films.

    (Unless you count PS4 Spider-Man ).
    While it isn't perfect, Insomniac's depiction of a Spidey romance actually is better than anything we've seen from the movies in a long time...

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    She should have returned at least a decade ago. I maintain the only way One More Day doesn't land with the thud it did with the fan base would have been if it had resurrected Gwen along with it. That would have been a wrench that would have given something to immediately explore upon ending the marriage. I mean don't get me wrong, I still don't think the whole thing would have been greatly received by the fans, but that particular element might have. It sure as hell would have had more consequences and gotten more people talking than Harry.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-14-2018 at 05:45 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  8. #83
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    ...I realize this is meant to be a dig at my comments, but other than a power set (which neither of them actually originated), their roles in their respective books are worlds different. These kind of comparisons only work when there's something actually there...
    Oh, there is plenty there. Both are love interests who gain spider powers. Both were bonded with the Venom Symbiote. Both are "true loves" (all be it in 65 Gwen's case tragically so) of their Peter Parker. Both wear costumes based upon Spider-Man's own. Both are AU variants of 616 characters. That said my comment was more a joke than anything else, thus the winky face.
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  9. #84
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The romance is definitely not good. It's just that the actors are charismatic and have good chemistry so you might forget that Peter stalks Gwen and this is presented as being charming.
    delete post
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-14-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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  10. #85
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Better Iron Man than Richard Parker.
    I think they're both equally as bad, but at least Richard's actually related to Peter .
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    She should have returned at least a decade ago. I maintain the only way One More Day doesn't land with the thud it did with the fan base would have been if it had resurrected Gwen along with it. That would have been a wrench that would have given something to immediately explore upon ending the marriage. I mean don't get me wrong, I still don't think the whole thing would have been greatly received by the fans, but that particular element might have. It sure as hell would have had more consequences and gotten more people talking than Harry.
    I think bringing back Gwen would've been a colossal deal but I can see a decent section of the fanbase disappointed to sit through a story that ended the marriage in such an awful way just to seemingly bring Gwen back.

    And, frankly, considering how Peter's relationships and Harry's revival was handled post-OMD, I don't think Gwen's return would've been handled much better.

    (But I guess Carlie Cooper might not have existed then).
    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Oh, there is plenty there. Both are love interests who gain spider powers. Both were bonded with the Venom Symbiote. Both are "true loves" (all be it in 65 Gwen's case tragically so) of their Peter Parker. Both wear costumes based upon Spider-Man's own. Both are AU variants of 616 characters. That said my comment was more a joke than anything else, thus the winky face.
    I don't know if I would say "true love" in the case of Earth-65 since they've never really been clear if there was any real romantic feelings going on there between Gwen and Peter.

    I would also say Spider-Gwen's costume isn't really based on Spider-Man's as much since it's pretty much it's own thing design-wise.

  11. #86
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    ...I would also say Spider-Gwen's costume isn't really based on Spider-Man's as much since it's pretty much it's own thing design-wise.
    It's probably based on Ben Reilly's costume, if anyone's, to be honest.
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  12. #87
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Oh, there is plenty there. Both are love interests who gain spider powers. Both were bonded with the Venom Symbiote. Both are "true loves" (all be it in 65 Gwen's case tragically so) of their Peter Parker. Both wear costumes based upon Spider-Man's own. Both are AU variants of 616 characters. That said my comment was more a joke than anything else, thus the winky face.
    That's... not really what I was talking about. Both books are very different books that are going for very different tones.

    Spider-Gwen is a book about a lost young woman trying to find her place in the world after suffering an enormous loss. She's clearly suffering from some form of depression. Her world is also meant to be a weird reflection of the Main Universe. "Everything you know is wrong" kind of deal.

    RYV is not that book. RYV is a book about being a family. About a husband and wife raising their daughter. It uses powers as a metaphor for that. Peter and MJ share the powers. Whereas Annie might actually have more potential than her parents (represented by Annie maybe having more power than her parents).

    They're books starring AU versions of 616 characters who all have the same basic power set. And that's about all they have in common.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think they're both equally as bad, but at least Richard's actually related to Peter .
    Peter's obsession with Richard undercuts Uncle Ben's role in the narrative, which is as disgusting a move as you can make in a Spider-Man story. I get that people will say Peter's obsession with proving himself to Iron Man is similar, but that they never make it about blood or undercut the role of Aunt May and that we don't get the notion that "only our real parents can understand us" means it already has a greater understanding of what Lee and Ditko were going for than anything the ASM films set out to say.

    I think bringing back Gwen would've been a colossal deal but I can see a decent section of the fanbase disappointed to sit through a story that ended the marriage in such an awful way just to seemingly bring Gwen back.

    And, frankly, considering how Peter's relationships and Harry's revival was handled post-OMD, I don't think Gwen's return would've been handled much better.

    (But I guess Carlie Cooper might not have existed then).
    Carlie is basically a "poor man's Gwen" anyway.

  13. #88
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Peter's obsession with Richard undercuts Uncle Ben's role in the narrative, which is as disgusting a move as you can make in a Spider-Man story. I get that people will say Peter's obsession with proving himself to Iron Man is similar, but that they never make it about blood or undercut the role of Aunt May and that we don't get the notion that "only our real parents can understand us" means it already has a greater understanding of what Lee and Ditko were going for than anything the ASM films set out to say.
    Considering how little Aunt May factored into Homecoming or really had any significant moment with Peter in that movie at, even compared to the woefully underutilized Sally Field, I would say it was still the case.

    And I would just say the Iron Man dynamic and his role in Spider-Man's life in general seems to lack a real understanding of what Lee and Ditko were going for, but this isn't the thread for that .

  14. #89
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Considering how little Aunt May factored into Homecoming or really had any significant moment with Peter in that movie at, even compared to the woefully underutilized Sally Field, I would say it was still the case.

    And I would just say the Iron Man dynamic and his role in Spider-Man's life in general seems to lack a real understanding of what Lee and Ditko were going for, but this isn't the thread for that .
    It felt like a bit of a substitution of Peter's hero worship of Reed Richards that we sometimes see (particularly when we flash back to the early days of Spidey's career). But he had no Johnny Storm (or equivalent) to bounce off of in these movies.

  15. #90
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It felt like a bit of a substitution of Peter's hero worship of Reed Richards that we sometimes see (particularly when we flash back to the early days of Spidey's career). But he had no Johnny Storm (or equivalent) to bounce off of in these movies.
    I feel like that would have come off better if Iron Man had been more of this figure from afar then someone who is so active in Peter's life that he's giving him costumes, tech, and mentoring and probably whatever else Peter might need in the future.

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