Do you think Gwen Stacy should ever return?

[Celgress]

To Everyone

I apologize for dragging the thread down with this utter foolishness. Mods please feel free to delete my last several posts.

[Kevinroc]

Are we really going to play this nitpicky game? Well, okay then -

ob·ser·va·tion
/ˌäbzərˈvāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.
"she was brought into the hospital for observation"
synonyms: monitoring, watching, scrutiny, examination, inspection, survey, surveillance, consideration, study, review
"the patient has been brought in for observation"

Source - Google Search

You presented your observation as evidence led you to the conclusion that "MJ is a complete unknown with a younger or casual audience." Your only evidence is anecdotal.

The point is you have not done the actual research necessary to make the call that you made.

[Spidey5640]

No, she should stay dead. Marvel has treated her horribly in death, can't imagine what they would do to/with her if she was suddenly back

[Celgress]

You presented your observation as evidence led you to the conclusion that "MJ is a complete unknown with a younger or casual audience." Your only evidence is anecdotal.

The point is you have not done the actual research necessary to make the call that you made.

delete post

[David Walton]

It felt like a bit of a substitution of Peter's hero worship of Reed Richards that we sometimes see (particularly when we flash back to the early days of Spidey's career). But he had no Johnny Storm (or equivalent) to bounce off of in these movies.

I'm not a fan of Peter wearing any kind of hero worship on his sleeve. ASM #1 sets the tone nicely. The heroes whom Peter admires, he also tends to resent. At least until the relationships soften over time and they learn to trust each other.

[Celgress]

You presented your observation as evidence led you to the conclusion that "MJ is a complete unknown with a younger or casual audience." Your only evidence is anecdotal.

The point is you have not done the actual research necessary to make the call that you made.

An observation can be evidence. I have indeed done the research needed to make a statement rather than a rigours scientific conclusion. As I've said this is my educated opinion based upon what I've observed, not a hard fact.

[Kevinroc]

An observation can be evidence. I have indeed done the research needed to make a statement rather than a rigours scientific conclusion. As I've said this is my educated opinion based upon what I've observed, not a hard fact.

Let's look at your statement.

Tell my younger cousins and their friends that. They know who Ghost Spider/Spider-Gwen is but have no idea who Mary Jane is. I think the same would apply to many cosplayers and girls who dress up as either Ghost Spider or Black Cat on Halloween. I'm merely pointing out how few comic book audience "facts" are absolute, age groups and demographics are often important to a character's popularity or lack thereof.

Your sample size is merely too small to make this kind of assessment.

Really, your argument should be "I have personally observed fans that have no idea who MJ is. But they know Spider-Gwen." Not infer that "because my young cousins and their friends know who Spider-Gwen is and don't know MJ must mean something more."

[Celgress]

Your sample size is merely too small to make this kind of assessment...

How do you know how big my sample size is? Maybe my sample size is thousands of people. I never said I knew all the people I was referencing.

[Kevinroc]

How do you know how big my sample size is? Maybe my sample size is thousands of people. I never said I knew all the people I was referencing.

Is your sample size "thousands of people"?

[Celgress]

Is your sample size "thousands of people"?

As a matter of fact, it is. Part of my hobby is going to cosplays (not as a cosplayer though) and I attend many such events each year and watch live streams of many more.

[boots]

Let's look at your statement.



Your sample size is merely too small to make this kind of assessment.

Really, your argument should be "I have personally observed fans that have no idea who MJ is. But they know Spider-Gwen." Not infer that "because my young cousins and their friends know who Spider-Gwen is and don't know MJ must mean something more."

except, he does specify "friends and cousins". celgress then qualifies his theory with "i think".

i mean, i agree that doesn't qualify as statistical data but can't see the part where he tries to pass it off as that?

(edit: just saw all the cosplayer stuff. i think i'll stay out of this one lol)

on the broader point of what the public knows (or gives a **** about) vs what comic fans do; i can vouch that even in my pop culture savvy circles...gwen and mj are interchangeable in their minds. the names don't have the same resonance as lois lane, for instance.

[Kevinroc]

As a matter of fact, it is. Part of my hobby is going to cosplays (not as a cosplayer though) and I attend many such events each year and watch live streams of many more.

So are you counting "this cosplayer is dressed as Spider-Gwen, therefore they don't know who Mary Jane is?" or do you talk to them to find out their answer?

[Celgress]

So are you counting "this cosplayer is dressed as Spider-Gwen, therefore they don't know who Mary Jane is?" or do you talk to them to find out their answer?

I'm not answering your question as this whole situation has become ridiculous. Boots clarifies my original position very clearly in his post (see above) which has inspired me not to derail the thread any further.

[Kevinroc]

except, he does specify "friends and cousins". celgress then qualifies his theory with "i think".

i mean, i agree that doesn't qualify as statistical data but can't see the part where he tries to pass it off as that?

(edit: just saw all the cosplayer stuff. i think i'll stay out of this one lol)

on the broader point of what the public knows (or gives a **** about) vs what comic fans do; i can vouch that even in my pop culture savvy circles...gwen and mj are interchangeable in their minds. the names don't have the same resonance as lois lane, for instance.

I'm finding Celgress' argument weak as he lets his personal experiences cover his perceptions. I don't doubt that there are Spidey fans who don't know who MJ is and are wild about Spider-Gwen. But considering Insomniac's Spider-Man game sold over three million copies in three days, I don't think we can take that kind of anecdote as gospel for the larger Spidey fanbase. My argument was never "Spider-Gwen isn't popular." (That would be ridiculous.) My argument was "Mary Jane is not some great unknown within the larger Spider-Man franchise."

[Celgress]

...I don't think we can take that kind of anecdote as gospel for the larger Spidey fanbase. My argument was never "Spider-Gwen isn't popular." (That would be ridiculous.) My argument was "Mary Jane is not some great unknown within the larger Spider-Man franchise."

Okay, you are putting words in my mouth er on my fingers. My original post was in response to another user who posted MJ was like "a rubber band" which always snapped back due to her overwhelming popularity. What I said in response was that her popularity might not be as universal as the other poster assumes. I then used examples from my own life to show things are not clear regarding the matter.