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  1. #91
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman. Virtually every superhero starting from Superman himself had it. It wasn't an original concept within the WW mythos.
    An 'established trope' after just 3 years? And a tiny handful of heroes? Nah. It's a trope now, because of Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman.

    And I agree 100% with Bound4olympus. Diana Prince was half the story, half the character. It was shoertsighted to remove that aspect of the character. And to wait decades to replace it again.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  2. #92
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    It was established with the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, the Spider, the Green Hornet, Black Bat, Domino Lady, the Phantom (Detective), the Clock. The Shadow (depending on the source material) would borrow the Lamont Cranston identity from the real Lamont Cranston, while Lee Falk's Phantom is a series of men who inherit the name and costume.
    sorry 🍁

  3. #93
    Incredible Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    An 'established trope' after just 3 years? And a tiny handful of heroes? Nah. It's a trope now, because of Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman.
    I'd argue that the secret identity part of superheroes is older than that, even if the genre didn't become fully formed until the late 30s. But earlier than that you had proto-superheroes like The Phantom, Zorro, The Shadow, and even earlier The Scarlet Pimpernel.

  4. #94
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It was established with the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, the Spider, the Green Hornet, Black Bat, Domino Lady, the Phantom (Detective), the Clock. The Shadow (depending on the source material) would borrow the Lamont Cranston identity from the real Lamont Cranston, while Lee Falk's Phantom is a series of men who inherit the name and costume.
    Those are not superheroes. The post I responded to says: The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman
    Last edited by RealWonderman; 11-14-2018 at 01:54 PM.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  5. #95
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'd argue that the secret identity part of superheroes is older than that, even if the genre didn't become fully formed until the late 30s. But earlier than that you had proto-superheroes like The Phantom, Zorro, The Shadow, and even earlier The Scarlet Pimpernel.
    Sure, however, he post I responded to says specifically "The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman." Whether it was a trope elsewhere wasn't the discussion.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    An 'established trope' after just 3 years? And a tiny handful of heroes? Nah. It's a trope now, because of Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman.

    And I agree 100% with Bound4olympus. Diana Prince was half the story, half the character. It was shoertsighted to remove that aspect of the character. And to wait decades to replace it again.
    Yes after three years given how common it was.

    Diana Prince didn’t offer anything new as a concept and its no coincidence that she’s been part of multiple reviled stories since her return.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Sure, however, he post I responded to says specifically "The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman." Whether it was a trope elsewhere wasn't the discussion.
    Well just don't force me to call it a trope--that always sounds like casting shade on anything that uses such conventions, as if it's played out. I prefer to say it's a convention which has a neutral connotation.

    The problem is there's no clear cut-off line, since people like Jerry Siegel and Bob Kane said about their creations that they were thinking of the Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro when they created their characters. And a lot of the early comics are directly borrowing from the pulps. You have Comic Magazine's the Clock (1936) and DC's Crimson Avenger (1938) both mystery men in the pulp tradition--are they super-heroes and where do you draw the line?

    Wonder Woman didn't come along until late 1941. By that time, in 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1941, DC, All-American, Fawcett, Fox, Timely, Quality, MLJ, Standard, Ace, Prize, Lev Gleason, Centaur and Harvey had all published their own super-hero comic books--and the majority of those super-heroes had secret identities. It's no doubt that secret identities were part of the convention that they all followed. Wonder Woman was late to the party.
    sorry 🍁

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