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  1. #91
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman. Virtually every superhero starting from Superman himself had it. It wasn't an original concept within the WW mythos.
    An 'established trope' after just 3 years? And a tiny handful of heroes? Nah. It's a trope now, because of Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman.

    And I agree 100% with Bound4olympus. Diana Prince was half the story, half the character. It was shoertsighted to remove that aspect of the character. And to wait decades to replace it again.
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  2. #92
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    It was established with the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, the Spider, the Green Hornet, Black Bat, Domino Lady, the Phantom (Detective), the Clock. The Shadow (depending on the source material) would borrow the Lamont Cranston identity from the real Lamont Cranston, while Lee Falk's Phantom is a series of men who inherit the name and costume.
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  3. #93
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    An 'established trope' after just 3 years? And a tiny handful of heroes? Nah. It's a trope now, because of Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman.
    I'd argue that the secret identity part of superheroes is older than that, even if the genre didn't become fully formed until the late 30s. But earlier than that you had proto-superheroes like The Phantom, Zorro, The Shadow, and even earlier The Scarlet Pimpernel.

  4. #94
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It was established with the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, the Spider, the Green Hornet, Black Bat, Domino Lady, the Phantom (Detective), the Clock. The Shadow (depending on the source material) would borrow the Lamont Cranston identity from the real Lamont Cranston, while Lee Falk's Phantom is a series of men who inherit the name and costume.
    Those are not superheroes. The post I responded to says: The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman
    Last edited by RealWonderman; 11-14-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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  5. #95
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'd argue that the secret identity part of superheroes is older than that, even if the genre didn't become fully formed until the late 30s. But earlier than that you had proto-superheroes like The Phantom, Zorro, The Shadow, and even earlier The Scarlet Pimpernel.
    Sure, however, he post I responded to says specifically "The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman." Whether it was a trope elsewhere wasn't the discussion.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    An 'established trope' after just 3 years? And a tiny handful of heroes? Nah. It's a trope now, because of Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman.

    And I agree 100% with Bound4olympus. Diana Prince was half the story, half the character. It was shoertsighted to remove that aspect of the character. And to wait decades to replace it again.
    Yes after three years given how common it was.

    Diana Prince didn’t offer anything new as a concept and its no coincidence that she’s been part of multiple reviled stories since her return.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Sure, however, he post I responded to says specifically "The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman." Whether it was a trope elsewhere wasn't the discussion.
    Well just don't force me to call it a trope--that always sounds like casting shade on anything that uses such conventions, as if it's played out. I prefer to say it's a convention which has a neutral connotation.

    The problem is there's no clear cut-off line, since people like Jerry Siegel and Bob Kane said about their creations that they were thinking of the Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro when they created their characters. And a lot of the early comics are directly borrowing from the pulps. You have Comic Magazine's the Clock (1936) and DC's Crimson Avenger (1938) both mystery men in the pulp tradition--are they super-heroes and where do you draw the line?

    Wonder Woman didn't come along until late 1941. By that time, in 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1941, DC, All-American, Fawcett, Fox, Timely, Quality, MLJ, Standard, Ace, Prize, Lev Gleason, Centaur and Harvey had all published their own super-hero comic books--and the majority of those super-heroes had secret identities. It's no doubt that secret identities were part of the convention that they all followed. Wonder Woman was late to the party.
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  8. #98
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    If Diana were to just have it as a civilian id how would you want that to work? I mean if she does need to work with Argus as a regular human and not as wonder woman wouldn't it be wise at times to use Diana Prince?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 11-17-2018 at 06:55 PM.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    If Diana were to just have it as a civilian id how would you want that to work? I mean if she does need to work with Argus as a regular human and not as wonder woman wouldn't it be wise at times to use Diana Prince?
    Why would she need Diana Prince for that?

  10. #100
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Those are not superheroes. The post I responded to says: The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman
    Your argument is built on a slight technicality and you responded to something wrong to begin with imo,It was already troupe because the superhero genre wasn't really a thing.Superman and Batman didn't begin as a "Superhero" but as Pulp heroes. That statement "The secret identity was an established trope in superheroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman." might be wrong but implying a "superhero genre" was around then is just as wrong imo. Superman, Captain Marvel, etc birthed the genre but there was no genre which mean those characters then where functionally between pulp heroes and superheroes.

    So you are right it wasn't establish troupe in superhero genre because there wasn't a superhero genre BUT you are wrong because first superheroes like Superman grew from pulp hero style concept to something more and more fantastic until he finally got publish in Action comics. Batman grew from being a pulp style Shadow like hero to something different. With the understanding that pulp and superhero is the same exact dna then statement "The secret identity was an established trope with pulp heroes and the early superheroes who morphed from pulp style heroes by the time Marston created Wonder Woman" is what of should been said.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 11-18-2018 at 01:30 AM.

  11. #101
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Why would she need Diana Prince for that?
    IF she working undercover or a few others things that wonder woman can't be used.
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  12. #102
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Why would she need Diana Prince for that?
    What if she were put into a position where she needed to lay low for a while? How could she do that if she were WW all the time? Or what if she wanted to go out for a coffee without being bombarded by paparazzi?

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    IF she working undercover or a few others things that wonder woman can't be used.
    Right but it needs to be a situation where she needs to pretend to be human.

  14. #104
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Right but it needs to be a situation where she needs to pretend to be human.
    She has to pretend just to get a coffee? Or ice cream? “Order up for a...Wonder Woman, Princess of the Amazons of Themyscira!”

    Seriously??

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    What if she were put into a position where she needed to lay low for a while? How could she do that if she were WW all the time? Or what if she wanted to go out for a coffee without being bombarded by paparazzi?
    The first option could be acceptable but that really isn’t what people are arguing for when they say bring back Diana Prince. As for the second option, that’s what super speed is for.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 11-18-2018 at 10:38 PM.

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