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  1. #1

    Default The Heroes in Crisis Murder Mystery *SPOILERS AHOY*

    This is a thread devoted to the armchair detectives who want to discuss and theorize about the murder mystery aspect of Heroes in Crisis without having to wade through the inevitable ocean of posts debating its merits as a story, character deaths, the depiction of PTSD in superhero comics, Harley Quinn's fighting ability, Tom King's writing or Dan Didio's editorial priorities.

    If you aren't enjoying Heroes in Crisis, that's perfectly valid, but this thread isn't for you. You are free to complain about it on any of the other Heroes in Crisis-related threads. Thank you for your understanding.

    For those of you who remain, here's the ground rules. Anything already released officially by DC comics is fair fame to discuss without the need for spoiler tags. If you are participating in this thread, you are agreeing to be spoiled on anything that's out there, including published comics, interviews and promotional materials. However, any unofficial leaks or rumors that aren't meant to be public yet are not allowed. This thread is not for those sad individuals who like to sneak a peak at the final page of a murder mystery before they've finished reading the book.

    No theory is too crazy, no idea is silly to be considered. This is your chance to play Sue & Ralph (or Bobo) and decipher the mystery, dismiss the red herrings, and follow the clues that will point to our murderer. Please lay out your primary suspects, evidence and reasoning as best you can. Nose twitching is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

  2. #2
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Harley did it. You saw her moves against Booster and the Trinity. Mind control? super power upgrade? who knows, but good money says Harley


    I don't by Wally being the muderer at all. If anything DC will probably keep him dead


    I know Skeets working for Bane but I don't think either of them could pull this off, and why would they just to annoy Batman? They could do worse.
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  3. #3

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    Here's how I see it. While we are only two issues in, it's very likely that the murderer has already appeared or been mentioned given Tom King's public anxiety over readers being able to figure out his mystery too easily.

    The only legit suspects from the first two issues are the following:

    Harley Quinn - On the surface, she's the most obvious suspect because of her past relationship with The Joker, who's no stranger to a little mass murder here or there. As a result, that would seem to disqualify Harley because that wouldn't be particularly satisfying for readers and burden one of DC's most popular characters with being a mass murderer from now on. From a publishing point of view, that would limit Harley's ability to be seen as a sympathetic character any longer.

    Booster Gold - Next to Harley, Booster is the second most obvious suspect because he's been directly accused by Harley of being the killer and he's been acting nutty for the past year. With all the chaos going on in Booster's regular turf of the timestream, Booster going crazy would make for a plausible enough explanation for a heel turn, but, again, it seems too obvious for this to sustain a nine part murder mystery.

    Poison Ivy - Yes, she's dead, but as King has also said in interviews "Nobody is really dead forever in superhero comics but Uncle Ben". Ivy's plant powers would allow her to resurrect herself in a new body, or transfer her consciousness into another person, so her being dead is by no means a dis-qualifier. Since she had just been shown taking mental control over the entire world prior to this, it's entirely possible she did so again to Booster, Harley and more, and caused the massacre at Sanctuary.

    Skeets - Booster's trusty AI sidekick was nowhere to be seen in issue #1, but turned up in issue #2 encouraging Booster to turn himself in. This wouldn't be the first time Skeets would be revealed as the villain, although I don't think Mr.Mind will be the man behind the curtain this time. Booster's force field not working in the first issue was flat out stated by King as being a clue. Skeets would certainly have the ability to mess with Booster's tech.

    Sanctuary - We currently know little about the AI program that ran Sanctuary aside from it being created by Kryptonian tech and infused with the will of Batman, the compassion of Wonder Woman and the honor of Superman. This seems like an unlikely recipe for a mass murderer, but given the Trinity's prominence in the story thus far (and presumably the rest of the story), I can see the appeal of having the killer be revealed to be a warped unnatural combination of the protagonists' own personalities. Again, Booster's malfunctioning force field makes sense here because the Sanctuary AI could have been messing with his suit.

    My current guess:

    My Spidey-Sense is telling me that King is pulling an Agatha Christie and it's all of the above, but primarily a combination of Skeets and the Sanctuary AI. I think maybe Skeets was trying to once again protect Booster and tried to interface with the Santuary AI, causing a massive malfunction that pitted all the patients against each other and caused the massacre. I think there's clearly something hinky going on with Wally West though that hasn't been revealed yet. I'm certain some time-travel shenanigans will come into play at some point in this mystery.

    What do you think? Am I way off-base?

  4. #4
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    King making Ivy the killer would be weird since he was the one who established that Ivy has never killed anyone in her career.

  5. #5
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Ooooooo the Sanctuary one is a good theory. I hadn't thought about that. Seems kind of like a rehash for Batman with Brother Eye or the whole evil articifal intelligence trope, but I'm okay with that.


    I'm going to be underwhelmed if its Skeets I'm gonna be honest. But Booster fans might be happy because that means he gets to be the hero.
    The J-man

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  6. #6
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    King making Ivy the killer would be weird since he was the one who established that Ivy has never killed anyone in her career.
    whoa whoa whoa whoa... What?!?!?!!?
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  7. #7
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    There is some sort of mental manipulation going on here.Booster and Harley claim that they saw the other one kill everyone else. Even if we assume that one of them is the culprit, it would be impossible for Booster or Harley to kill everyone in Sanctuary without extra help.

    Since King is writing this story, there is a high chance that whatever happens here is connected to the whatever Bane is scheming in the Batman comics. We don't know the full details of the plan, but Bane's team includes Skeets(who is supposed to be Booster's buddy)and Psycho Pirate(who manipulates emotions). Skeets could have hacked Sanctuary's AI and made it kill everyone or Psycho Pirate used his powers to make everyone at Sanctuary kill each other.

    The AI might also be responsible. AIs have a tendency to go rogue in comics. Assuming the AI did go rogue, did it do so on its own or was there outside interference?

    I find it unusual that none of the Titans seem aware that Wally is dead. Either the JL decided to keep them out of the loop or Wally is actually alive. Depending on what the writers do, Wally being alive might be a good thing or a bad thing.

    We should also consider the possibility of fake bodies coming into play. Ivy can regenerate and create new bodies via plant shenanigans and Wally has access to the Speed Force(speed clones,time shenanigans).

    The fake teeth in Commander Steel's throat makes me think that the Joker is involved somehow. It just seems like something he would do, especially if his endgame is trolling Harley.
    Last edited by king81992; 11-04-2018 at 03:17 PM.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    whoa whoa whoa whoa... What?!?!?!!?




    The events referred to are the War of Jokes and Riddles, an event retconned into Batman's early history by King. Ivy thought that she had killed those men and had tormented herself for years, leading into the "take over the world" thing.

  9. #9
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post




    The events referred to are the War of Jokes and Riddles, an event retconned into Batman's early history by King. Ivy thought that she had killed those men and had tormented herself for years, leading into the "take over the world" thing.
    uh okay. I'll admit I'm not really reading King's gun I jus pop in here nd there when I hear people freaking out. Interesting.
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  10. #10
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    We all forget: Psycho Pirate is out there and this is an EMOTIONALLY DRIVEN Crisis, isnt that like, his entire MO
    Wally West deserved better than Heroes in Crisis

    Pull List:

    DC: JUSTICE LEAGUE, JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK, JUSTICE LEAGUE ODYSSEY, ACTION COMICS, BATMAN WHO LAUGHS

    MARVEL: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, VENOM, WEB OF VENOM, UNCANNY X-MEN, DAREDEVIL, WOLVERINE: INFINITY WATCH, FANTASTIC FOUR

    BOOM STUDIOS: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, ANGEL

  11. #11
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    First of all thank you so much for creating this thread. The other one went downhill.

    Second, I think Skeets is behind this. On one of the solicits, they strongly hint at corrupt A.I.'s. Skeets is highly advanced, highly intelligent and i believe he can interface with other tech. I can see him controlling Boosters gadgets and such. Maybe Skeets is corrupted. Maybe he snapped for whatever reasons. However I don't think Skeets acted alone. Does anyone think Psycho Pirate made Wally and Roy kill each other? Maybe he incited rage within those two. They died awfully close to each other.
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  12. #12
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    While I know "Other..." seems unlikely, it feels like it might end up there.

    Booster seems to honestly believe it was Harley, and Harley seems to honestly believe it was Booster.

    Feels like there has to be something to that.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    First of all thank you so much for creating this thread. The other one went downhill.
    I did the same for Doomsday Clock. I understand these kinds of stories aren't for everyone and people want a place to vent and complain about them, but that shouldn't also mean that all discussion of them needs to be dominated by those who disagree with the very idea of them or aren't even reading them.

  14. #14

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    As with any mystery, it is about motive, means and opportunity. We may or may not have all the relevant information given that we’re still early on, but based on what we do have:

    Motive: Could be a personal grudge against one or more of the residents, a broader anger at the Sanctuary concept, or a cover for doxxing the residents. The “puddlers” clearly have information taken from Sanctuary. The killings could have been a cover for the acquisition of said info, but that doesn’t really speak fully to motive. Who wants to dox the heroes?

    Means: Whoever did this took down a house full of metas, including Wally who is/was exceptionally powerful. The list of people capable of that is short. Given the conversation between Booster and Harley, we know that either their perceptions/ memories have been altered, or they’ve both been mind controlled. This would seem to point to Ivy as the culprit given her expanded abilities in King’s Batman (though Ivy doesn’t really seem to have a motive).

    Opportunity: Not that many people knew about Sanctuary, apparently, though it seems likely that many in the hero community did. The current residents would seem to have the clearest opportunity (again, pointing to Ivy).


    Thus far Ivy seems like the best bet, but she’s not a perfect fit due to the lack of an obvious motive. Her absence from the carnage could be significant, though. A rogue AI is also a possibility, though that creates issues of means - could a computer really do all that? Same problem for Skeets.

    If you ask the Identity Crisis question, “who benefits?”: enemies of the murdered heroes, the puddlers, maybe a rogue AI. Hard to see how Ivy would benefit but again that gets back to motive.

    (One final thing pointing to Ivy is that Harley is still alive.)
    Cheers - CL

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I did the same for Doomsday Clock. I understand these kinds of stories aren't for everyone and people want a place to vent and complain about them, but that shouldn't also mean that all discussion of them needs to be dominated by those who disagree with the very idea of them or aren't even reading them.
    I echo Anti-Geek, thank you for the thread. I was hoping you'd make one lol

    I agree that we have probably already seen or heard about the killer by now. Unfortunately for myself, I don't have enough info yet to make a good guess, or at least a different guess than what has been put forth. On the surface, I like the Skeets/Psycho Pirate dual perpetrator angle, and it seems to make more sense than Booster & Harley who are the obvious red herrings of the story. To put it in "Criminal Minds" / "Law & Order" terms, they are the suspects who get arrested in the first 15 minutes of the show that always turn out to be innocent.

    There are a couple things that don't work for me in the Skeets/Pirate theory (with caveats for why they might still work below):

    1. We've already had a major DCU event where Skeets was the bad guy. Granted, it wasn't really Skeets in '52', but still.

    2. If Psycho Pirate is involved at the behest of Bane (or even without Bane), that could leave a lot of readers in the cold who aren't also reading King's 'Batman'. He could end up a "left field" perpetrator.

    Now, the caveats: '52' was about 13 years ago, so it's possible enough time and reboots have happened that King feels it's okay to make Skeets the bad guy again. And Psycho Pirate could still be involved as long as King sets him up at some point, so that HiC can be enjoyed independent of 'Batman'.

    What I don't want to see is Sanctuary itself going rogue...it would make the trinity look insanely incompetent to have another A.I. That they built go rogue. It was one thing when it was Batman's Brother Eye, but this time they used Kryptonian technology...ALIEN technology...there really shouldn't be anyone on Earth that can hack it except for a Kryptonian (and probably Batman, for obvious reasons). I'm okay with Skeets hacking it if it comes to that, since he's from a future where Kryptonian tech isn't all that alien anymore. But I don't want to see a regular present-day character being able to do it.

    Then we have the business of someone mailing confessionals and information to the Daily Planet, junxtaposed nicely with Clark's fear of the information getting out. Batman has said more than once now that all of the information collected by Sanctuary is deleted, nothing is kept. I'm sure none of us believe that, as not even Diana believes it in-story. This is a guy who lied to Clark about having Kryptonite in his belt...lying to the guy who GAVE him a Kryptonite ring once. There's no reason to lie about it, except that this is Batman we're talking about. So Skeets makes sense as someone who could get a copy of the files, or at least someone who could recover deleted information.

    About that message to the Daily Planet...it's a quick message, with a video attachment of Arsenal talking about his drug addiction. The message says: Our heroes hide themselves from us. From Sanctuary. Here is the truth. More truths will be coming. <signed> The Puddlers . From this, we can glean that whomever sent this to the DP has more "truths", aka video confessionals, and they will be released. But we can also assume, or at the very least guess, that the person(s) who have sent this to the DP are not the same individual who scrolled on the Sanctuary wall "The Puddlers are all dead." We assumed the puddlers in issue one were the heroes, the "weapons" at Sanctuary to be fixed and remolded. But information is also a weapon, as powerful as a sword, so perhaps the "puddler" with the information is "skimming the molten metal" and is trying to make the heroes "stronger" by revealing their "impurities" to the world? The message said they "hide from us" and "hide from sactuary", so perhaps this person(s) believes that the heroes have nothing to fear if all of their problems are out in the open, in the light. But could this person(s) be attempting to not reveal names? The attachment said "Arsenal" and not "Roy". And in his confessional, Roy introduces himself as "Arsenal", and not "Roy". So it could be this message "puddler" doesn't know his real name, or he could be protecting it while revealing the drug addiction.

    So yeah, I don't have much. But in these kinds of cases, I typically play the role of a guy who brings up angles nobody else has mentioned, and I wait for smarter people than I to piece it together. So in that regard, I hope I mentioned something worthy of pondering. I think signing the message "The Puddlers" vs "The Puddlers are all dead" scrawled on the wall might be a decent clue to examine. If the Killer says the puddlers are all dead, then it makes no sense to sign his message to the DP as such.
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