The Heroes in Crisis Murder Mystery *SPOILERS AHOY*

[greatmetropolitan]

A lot of what King is doing in this book is working through his issues regarding being in the CIA, especially in Iraq and the like. That he would use a spy character like Nemesis as the villain seems like something that would thematically fit with that, given King's history as, well, a spy.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

“This Deal is getting worse all the time”

Ha! I felt the same when I first heard about it myself, to the point where I thought it was too ridiculous to believe, but given where the story might be headed, I must admit that it has a certain appeal, despite my generally dislike for Azzarrello's superhero stuff. His Wonder Woman was completely wrong-headed in so, so many ways, but it was also an extremely compelling read month after month. If he can do something similar with Suicide Squad with certain characters, I would absolutely check it out if this story is going where I think it is...

[Naked Bat]

Ha! I felt the same when I first heard about it myself, to the point where I thought it was too ridiculous to believe, but given where the story might be headed, I must admit that it has a certain appeal, despite my generally dislike for Azzarrello's superhero stuff. His Wonder Woman was completely wrong-headed in so, so many ways, but it was also an extremely compelling read month after month. If he can do something similar with Suicide Squad with certain characters, I would absolutely check it out if this story is going where I think it is...

I knew about the rumor but I didn't Remember Azz was supposed to be the writer. This is good news to me. Even at his worse, he's at least interesting and has a distinct voice!

[Denirac]

Ha! I felt the same when I first heard about it myself, to the point where I thought it was too ridiculous to believe, but given where the story might be headed, I must admit that it has a certain appeal, despite my generally dislike for Azzarrello's superhero stuff. His Wonder Woman was completely wrong-headed in so, so many ways, but it was also an extremely compelling read month after month. If he can do something similar with Suicide Squad with certain characters, I would absolutely check it out if this story is going where I think it is...

If it goes where You think it does after those rumors I’ll read it out of Loyalty to that Character who winds up there but I’ll probably hate it, Azzarrello doesnt write “Optimistic” characters well

[jpmst17]

If it goes where You think it does after those rumors I’ll read it out of Loyalty to that Character who winds up there but I’ll probably hate it, Azzarrello doesnt write “Optimistic” characters well

I'm with you, I would get suicide squad if that character ends up in the book.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I would agree about Azzarello, but I will give it a shot.

Granted, we probably shouldn't put too much stock in Bleeding Cool rumors. Remember when Morrison's GL was supposed to be about Hal journeying through the dying Multiverse because the Source Wall broke in Metal?

I'm sure there's some element of truth to all this, but I don’t think it's worth getting either worried or excited about yet.

[Rikdad]

I thought I'd point out two similarities to previous stories, one perhaps incidental, but one rather striking.

Commander Steel was killed by something being forced into his mouth. This was also done to the Knight in Morrison's Club of Heroes story, but surgery saved him.

But very striking to me: At the end of HIC #2, Lois Lane, at the Daily Planet, gets a communication indicating that someone knows the heroes' secrets. This also happened at the end of Identity Crisis #4. Given the similar role that the two mini-series seem to play, that repetition seems either like a knowing repetition on King's part, or some rather specific (maybe subconscious) borrowing.

In IC, this was the killer, and was not actually the threat that it claimed to be; it was misdirection. In HIC, we have to see what the killer's motive is. "The Puddlers are all dead" graffiti indicates, on the surface, that the killer wanted to stop Sanctuary's work… but because it was helping the heroes or because it was hurting them? From the cases of Lagoon Boy, Wally, and Booster, we didn't see any successful healing taking place.

[j9ac9k]

Has anyone floated the theory yet that this is one of those "there was only one real target and the rest were collateral to create as much chaos as possible so people wouldn't notice who the only intended victim is" scenarios? Nemesis's presence is making me wonder, but I have to give it more thought...

Also, during the "Wally on the holodeck" scene, was anyone else reminded of how Hal Jordan created a simulacrum Coast City right before he "snapped" and became Parallax? Not that Wally snapped or anything...

[Coco Loco]

Wally’s dialogue made it sound like he was apologizing to Roy - as if his kids had been the killers. That, coupled with Harley and Booster each thinking the other did it, makes me wonder if *everyone* there saw the attacks a different way, perhaps attuned to their own experience with the AI. Clearly the participants are able to experience touch or even pain during the simulations - it’s not a big leap from there to a widespread tactile hallucination.

The two Boosters idea is interesting too - because we don’t know which one we were seeing in #1 or #2. We assume it’s the real one because we assume the other one is an hallucination, but maybe, maybe not.

[Rikdad]

Wally’s dialogue made it sound like he was apologizing to Roy - as if his kids had been the killers. That, coupled with Harley and Booster each thinking the other did it, makes me wonder if *everyone* there saw the attacks a different way, perhaps attuned to their own experience with the AI. Clearly the participants are able to experience touch or even pain during the simulations - it’s not a big leap from there to a widespread tactile hallucination.

It's interesting to parse this dialogue. I wonder if something was happening like in Sacrifice, where Superman was doing damage to others (mainly Batman) because he hallucinated fights with his powerful villains. On the surface, Wally is just a victim, but his state of mind is not well here, and it doesn't seem to be enough to say that everyone here was hurting.

Of huge relevance: Who is even the narrator of Wally's scenes? Is this reality? Is it Wally's POV? Is it Booster's? Why would Booster's hallucination have details about what Wally was whispering to Roy's dead body. Is it multiple POVs?

I'm inclined to say that this all really happened, but then somebody moved the bodies before Superman arrived. But with hallucinations on the table, anything's possible.


Per the two Boosters, I think it's consistent which one was which. The one talking about the hairline and balding was not real, and was antagonizing the real one. Their parts in the dialogue seemed to be consistent if you followed it from line to line.

[Scott Taylor]

Interesting peek into Sanctuary. This place has got nothing on Akrham Asylum. Some real Machiavellian, velvet glove on an iron fist stuff going on there - if you can call that therapy then I'll eat my copy of HiC #3.

[BatmanJones]

Check bleedingcool for a story on Rikdad's post and Bored at 3AM's great work on Nemesis.

http://bleedingcool.com

[Armageddon]

I believe the point was to show the trauma that plagues him every moment of his life. That's what he said anyway.

It shouldn’t even be in continuity tho
But I guess that’s just more stuff coming related to Wally

[king81992]

I thought I'd point out two similarities to previous stories, one perhaps incidental, but one rather striking.

Commander Steel was killed by something being forced into his mouth. This was also done to the Knight in Morrison's Club of Heroes story, but surgery saved him.

But very striking to me: At the end of HIC #2, Lois Lane, at the Daily Planet, gets a communication indicating that someone knows the heroes' secrets. This also happened at the end of Identity Crisis #4. Given the similar role that the two mini-series seem to play, that repetition seems either like a knowing repetition on King's part, or some rather specific (maybe subconscious) borrowing.

In IC, this was the killer, and was not actually the threat that it claimed to be; it was misdirection. In HIC, we have to see what the killer's motive is. "The Puddlers are all dead" graffiti indicates, on the surface, that the killer wanted to stop Sanctuary's work… but because it was helping the heroes or because it was hurting them? From the cases of Lagoon Boy, Wally, and Booster, we didn't see any successful healing taking place.

Specifically Commander Steel died because fake teeth were shoved down his throat.

[Hilden B. Lade]

Doing a re-read of Grayson, and at the start of issue #9 Nemesis appears as a kind of espionage parody of Rorschach before Grayson knocks him out... and he gets presumably killed by Agent 8 immediately afterwards. It was one of Tom King-penned issues of Grayson too...

I wonder if these two Tom King Nemesis appearances are connected in some way, or if it's just a coincidence, like Tom King forgot he killed Nemesis off in Grayson or he took advantage of the current fluid continuity to bring him back to kill him off again. :P