What kind of relationship should the X-Men and the Avengers have?

[Buried Alien]

Uneasy allies is probably best.

On a somewhat related note, where would the Fantastic Four (when they're all back together) fit into this? The FF always seem to be the odd-group-out when it comes to the mutants.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Askani's Flame]

Except they did- in Children's Crusade. The X-Men teleported in an demanded they hand Wanda over to them.

With reasonable understanding. Were they necessarily right to do so? No, but given the context of the multiversal issues Wanda caused to mutants it could be understood.

Mutant issue

The only way the X-men care if it is a mutant bad guy. So if the Avengers was to allow Mr sinister to be a member the X-men would show up to smack around sinister. The Avenger could put a line up out of Dr Doom, Kang, Kingpin, Osborn, Ultron and Iron Man they wouldn't care.

I disagree, if someone were to ask the X-Men to come and assist on a large scale threat that required help, they would come. That's what they do. The only time they'll likely say no would be if it wasn't in the best interest of the mutant community as it's hero vs hero (a la Civil War) or they are predisposed in the middle of another crisis.

[Keyotheseasons]

With reasonable understanding. Were they necessarily right to do so? No, but given the context of the multiversal issues Wanda caused to mutants it could be understood.

I am not saying the X-Men didn't have a reason or a right to confront Wanda, but they went about it rather aggressively and in a rather similar way that the Avengers later showed up on Utopia in AvX. I just think saying that the X-Men never came knocking on the Avengers' door and making demands is a false statement. If the X-Men have a right to confront the Avengers about the Scarlet Witch for nearly dooming an entire species, then in my eyes, the Avengers have a right to do the same when a cosmic force, with a history of being corrupted is approaching the planet. Both teams have handled situations poorly in the past and should work on their diplomacy.

I know I am in the X-Men forum and I will probably get heat for my comments, but I just find the one-sided views of some fans to be very extreme. I love the X-Men and realize they have been through the wringer more times than I can count. I sympathize with the mutants and am all for a happy co-existence, but to say that any hero or any team has a squeaky clean reputation is just false. All characters and teams have done something during their publication history that deserves some sort of scrutiny in my opinion.

[CuteClops]

Except they did- in Children's Crusade. The X-Men teleported in an demanded they hand Wanda over to them.

And what happened in the end? Tell me more.

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RCO005.jpg

Perhaps Steve should take his own advice, right? Perhaps he should let the X-Men solve their own problems, and not attack them with his armies, as he did on AvX and then on All-New X-Men.
The Avengers can take care of their murderers and genocidal heroes, like they always do, and leave the X-Men alone.

Btw, even the FF... Reed Richards never paid for the murder of Bill Foster.
They're just a big bunch of hipocrites to me.

[Askani's Flame]

I am not saying the X-Men didn't have a reason or a right to confront Wanda, but they went about it rather aggressively and in a rather similar way that the Avengers later showed up on Utopia in AvX. I just think saying that the X-Men never came knocking on the Avengers' door and making demands is a false statement. If the X-Men have a right to confront the Avengers about the Scarlet Witch for nearly dooming an entire species, then in my eyes, the Avengers have a right to do the same when a cosmic force, with a history of being corrupted is approaching the planet. Both teams have handled situations poorly in the past and should work on their diplomacy.

I know I am in the X-Men forum and I will probably get heat for my comments, but I just find the one-sided views of some fans to be very extreme. I love the X-Men and realize they have been through the wringer more times than I can count. I sympathize with the mutants and am all for a happy co-existence, but to say that any hero or any team has a squeaky clean reputation is just false. All characters and teams have done something during their publication history that deserves some sort of scrutiny in my opinion.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Both were handled poorly but their request/demands were understandable. Nor am I saying the X-Men are faultless by any circumstance. The poster saying they never came a-knocking was wrong.

I think the strife that was caused by hero v. hero events has taken a major toll on fans in forcing them to choose a side. The continuation of the on-page frostiness has done nothing to rectify it.

[CuteClops]

I am not saying the X-Men didn't have a reason or a right to confront Wanda, but they went about it rather aggressively and in a rather similar way that the Avengers later showed up on Utopia in AvX. I just think saying that the X-Men never came knocking on the Avengers' door and making demands is a false statement. If the X-Men have a right to confront the Avengers about the Scarlet Witch for nearly dooming an entire species, then in my eyes, the Avengers have a right to do the same when a cosmic force, with a history of being corrupted is approaching the planet. Both teams have handled situations poorly in the past and should work on their diplomacy.

I know I am in the X-Men forum and I will probably get heat for my comments, but I just find the one-sided views of some fans to be very extreme. I love the X-Men and realize they have been through the wringer more times than I can count. I sympathize with the mutants and am all for a happy co-existence, but to say that any hero or any team has a squeaky clean reputation is just false. All characters and teams have done something during their publication history that deserves some sort of scrutiny in my opinion.

But this is not the main problem.
The problem is that only Scott Summers and a few other mutants were punished for... everthing.
Tell me when Steve, Tony, Wanda, Carol, Thor, and even Beast (for me, he's more Avenger than X-Man) received the same treatment as Scott and Emma, for example?
People talk about Magneto, but Namor, who has committed countless genocides, is now an X-Man on Jean's team. In fact, some even suggested a romance between the saint and the genocidal hero.

[Keyotheseasons]

But this is not the main problem.
The problem is that only Scott Summers and a few other mutants were punished for... everthing.
Tell me when Steve, Tony, Wanda, Carol, Thor, and even Beast (for me, he's more Avenger than X-Man) received the same treatment as Scott and Emma, for example?
People talk about Magneto, but Namor, who has committed countless genocides, is now an X-Man on Jean's team. In fact, some even suggested a romance between the saint and the genocidal hero.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I know for a fact that the X-Men and mutant-related characters have always gotten the short end of the stick and have always been treated worse. I am not sure if that is necessarily to further the mutants narratives or just bad decisions on editorials part or some other factors. I just think that pointing out one side's flaws and wrong doings while ignoring another's completely is hypocritical. The X-Men are not saints either. That is the only point I am trying to make.

Just because their plight is more sympathetic doesn't excuse them of their wrong-doings either. I have no problem with someone saying "The X-Men came out of AvX or IvX as the underdogs and were the only ones who suffered real consequences", but I have a problem with saying "the X-Men did nothing wrong" or " the Avengers/Inhumans are solely responsible for blah, blah, blah". In all of the conflicts that people, including non-X-Men fans, had problems with both sides of said conflict contributed to the bad blood and narrative of those stories.

[bell]

There is so much bad blood right now for them to be friends. I am okay with them working together but friendship with them... sure why not if we ignore very bad thing that has happen to the x men just for a story

[CuteClops]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I know for a fact that the X-Men and mutant-related characters have always gotten the short end of the stick and have always been treated worse. I am not sure if that is necessarily to further the mutants narratives or just bad decisions on editorials part or some other factors. I just think that pointing out one side's flaws and wrong doings while ignoring another's completely is hypocritical. The X-Men are not saints either. That is the only point I am trying to make.

Just because their plight is more sympathetic doesn't excuse them of their wrong-doings either. I have no problem with someone saying "The X-Men came out of AvX or IvX as the underdogs and were the only ones who suffered real consequences", but I have a problem with saying "the X-Men did nothing wrong" or " the Avengers/Inhumans are solely responsible for blah, blah, blah". In all of the conflicts that people, including non-X-Men fans, had problems with both sides of said conflict contributed to the bad blood and narrative of those stories.

Well, I never thought the X-Men were always right. Even Scott made many mistakes. By the way, it's exactly because of 'the mistakes' that I like him. Perfect characters are soooo boring.

But the point is, there's no way to accept the Avengers as great friends if nothing is done to punish them. They were never punished.
And while that doesn't happen, I'd rather they stay away from the X-books.
And I say the same thing about the Inhumans.

[stormphoenix]

I Love these Discussions. :-)

[Keyotheseasons]

Well, I never thought the X-Men were always right. Even Scott made many mistakes. By the way, it's exactly because of 'the mistakes' that I like him. Perfect characters are soooo boring.

But the point is, there's no way to accept the Avengers as great friends if nothing is done to punish them. They were never punished.
And while that doesn't happen, I'd rather they stay away from the X-books.
And I say the same thing about the Inhumans.

I wasn't necessarily addressing my comments towards you. I react a certain way due to experiences that I have had with a certain small group of vocal fans that have made me, at times, feel bad for liking the Avengers, F4 or Inhumans simply for pointing out that the mutants are not saints. Once again, I am not saying all X-Men fans have done this or that I am talking to you specifically.

I totally respect your opinion and can understand your views totally. I don't see it quite as harshly, but that is just my viewpoint on the matter. This thread was asking people for their opinions and I try to respect them all, even if I don't agree. As mentioned above, I simply have a problem with glorifying one group while completely vilifying another by simply choosing to ignore certain aspects of their publication history.

I love characters with imperfections and complicated personalities too. Emma is one of my favorite X-Men, for example.

[Zero Hunter]

Uneasy allies is probably best.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That is how I would classify them. The Avengers have just ignored too many big things when it comes to mutants be it the decimation of Genosha or the hostilities with the Inhumans over the Terrigen cloud. Then there is the whole battle they had over the Phoenix. They are not friends and should not be. I mean when it comes right down to it the Avengers are agents of the same govt that builds Sentiniels so there is no way the X-Men should ever fully trust them.

[Tenebrae]

I could see a friends with benefits relationship going on until the inevitable breakdown of trust and they don't text each other anymore.

[Supernature]

Cordial but distrustful.

[Striderblack01]

I could see a friends with benefits relationship going on until the inevitable breakdown of trust and they don't text each other anymore.

There is so much bad blood right now for them to be friends. I am okay with them working together but friendship with them... sure why not if we ignore very bad thing that has happen to the x men just for a story

(They used to call us on Cerebro...)