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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Reed, Susan, Ben and Johnny are the OG.
    Spider-Man tries to join the team to earn money in ASM vol. 1 #1. Afterwards he's a friend/rival of the Human Torch. Becomes an ad-hoc FF member in the future and joins the Future Foundation.
    Medusa encounters the FF as an enemy but later becomes a supporting character with the other Inhumans. Stands in for Susan Richards on the FF and Future Foundation.
    Crystal encounters the FF with the other Inhumans, becomes Human Torch's love interest. Stands in for Susan Richards.
    Black Panther recruits the FF to fight an invader in his homeland. Becomes a supporting member. Stands in for Reed Richards after Civil War with his wife Ororo Munroe.
    Storm meets the FF numerous times as an X-Man. Stands in for Susan Richards with her husband T'Challa after Civil War.
    Jennfer Walters encounters the FF early in her superhero career. Stands in for Ben Grimm during his leave of absence and becomes a Future Foundation member in FF vol. 2

    Wolverine knew Ben Grimm before he became the Thing and encounters the FF numerous times during his X-Man career. Becomes an ad-hoc FF member at one point.
    Danny Ketch becomes an ad-hoc FF member along Wolverine, Spider-Man and the Hulk.
    Luke Cage stands in for the Thing.
    Sharon ventura encounters Ben Grimm after he returns from space and later becomes his love interest and a stand in on the FF on a Ben Grimm-led team.
    Scott Lang encounters the FF during his hero career and joins the team when Reed Richards is presumed dead. Later holds on to the Future Foundation for Reed
    Johnny Storm hooks up with Namor's cousin, Namorita to get back at his ass. She joins the team after Heroes Return.
    Nova joins because Johnny keeps bringing his girlfriends to work. She dumps for for some silver surfing hipster.
    Ms. Thing joins because Johnny. She dumps his ass too.
    Iceman stole Hulk's invite.
    H.E.R.B.I.E. sucks and I'm tired of writing.
    Nice comprehensive list. I'm also noticing a pattern, has Johnny ever did the dumping in his relationships? He always seems to be the one dumped lol.
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  2. #32
    Incredible Member bobellis75's Avatar
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    I am going to ride out this arc...and I hope this book gets better. I like Slott and I'm digging the art...the first couple issues haven't been what I'd hoped for I guess, after pining for a new title since the book was shelved all this time. I want to stick with it...but with the money I spend on books week to week...I don't hesitate to drop a book if I'm not feeling it, no matter how much I love the characters.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the issue. There were parts I would change, but it was generally enjoyable and it's nice that the family are finally back together.


    I liked the scene with Spider-man and the one explaining why Iceman is here. Found them funny.

    Griever was a bit too mustache twirling for my liking. What did Sue do to save Franklin? Just turn invisible?

    I think the action could have been better.

    I liked the panel with the "extended family" interacting with the Future Foundation, there should have been more of that.

    I hope that there is less of the "Franklin you're stronger than all of us" stuff in the future. Don't want this turning into a Franklin and Val book.
    Last edited by Crimz; 11-14-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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  4. #34
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    One challenge with dealing with a large cast is giving everyone a fair amount of panel time. We've got the Fantastic Four plus Four-Squared, or 20 superheroes, not to mention the Future Foundation. I wish everyone was shown punching or zapping or doing whatever it is they do. Nonetheless, the key to victory lay in the observation Griever's actions in the previous issue which I'm sure some here were able to deduce. And we got an answer to Bobby's presence (which I correctly guessed in the appreciation thread).
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  5. #35
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    Griever at the End of All Things is an Abstract and I'm happy Reed used that against her. A being of pure destruction cannot create and must steal because it is against her nature. It's the same logic Galactus used to deduce Lord Chaos was weaker than Master Order. It's the science version of the "Dormammu, I've come to bargain" scene from Dr. Strange.

    The Iceman bit was fan, especially the whole "oops, we made a mistake" message from Tom.

    Page time was a bit hard to control, especially with this large of a cast. I felt some members were neglected. Special mention goes to the Future Foundation. I'm hoping they get their own book. In fact, I'm hoping the F4 and FF can get into other books. I want Val and Onome in Black Panther and Franklin, Leech, and Artie in X-Men.

    Speaking Franklin and Val, I didn't enjoy Valeria's characterization. She reminds me of high school me, and I don't like high school me. As for Franklin, I loved his defeatist characterization. It's the logical conclusion that all his life, he's been told he's the greatest asset to the Fantastic Four. Seeing him snuffed out like that was fun.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobellis75 View Post
    I am going to ride out this arc...and I hope this book gets better. I like Slott and I'm digging the art...the first couple issues haven't been what I'd hoped for I guess, after pining for a new title since the book was shelved all this time. I want to stick with it...but with the money I spend on books week to week...I don't hesitate to drop a book if I'm not feeling it, no matter how much I love the characters.
    very similar for me

    I love these characters and I so want to love this book, but so far its not gripped me, at all

    I so far have not felt its found its feet, and I haven't liked this griever character nor found them at all interesting

    ill giver it till they get back on earth and in their base of operations, but if its still dragging ill be off as much as I love the 4 books aint free

  7. #37
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    the Griever will grieve the premature exit she had. I think she is going to join Ulysses in the forgotten newly added members to the cosmic pantheon.
    it was a nice enough issue having some great funny moments but the element of tension and action felt a little lacking. maybe it was a choice made purposefully but all that was different from their return in the heroes return was that they had a plethora of guest stars going in action with them. not as good as it should have been.

  8. #38
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone was reading this to see Luke Cage and Jen Walters bust heads. I am very happy with the focus being on the main members. Seeing Franklin and Val (and the other Foundation members) dealing with heroes was great. It was what we've been waiting for for years.

    I noticed the confidence and assuredness that the team would win out in the end. I assume the default is Reed's plan usually work and that the times where those plans screw up are the exceptions making for interesting stories. This was a good basic fight. It was classic FF with the team having family style dealings while also facing abstract alien concepts. Xavier might have seen something in her mind or Dr Strange might have sensed her weakness. But Reed deduced it.

    I like it. The Fantastic Four is back.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    One challenge with dealing with a large cast is giving everyone a fair amount of panel time. We've got the Fantastic Four plus Four-Squared, or 20 superheroes, not to mention the Future Foundation. I wish everyone was shown punching or zapping or doing whatever it is they do. Nonetheless, the key to victory lay in the observation Griever's actions in the previous issue which I'm sure some here were able to deduce. And we got an answer to Bobby's presence (which I correctly guessed in the appreciation thread).
    Of course not every hero will get their shine when there is such a big cast and only one issue. I just think the actual action could be more creative, but that is more a problem with how comics deal with action in general. There should be more creative things than just blasting/punching an enemy.



    My favourite part of the issue besides the very end was this:




    It's really nice to see everyone interacting with each other and Storm saying they should meet up again (which hopefully happens at the wedding).
    I hope Shuri and Val do meet and team-up someday soon.
    Last edited by Crimz; 11-14-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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  10. #40
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    That was cute.

    I felt so bad for Spiderman, but Ben had a good point.

  11. #41
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    My favorite line:

    "It is the Ben! The Ben has returned to us!"

  12. #42
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Griever will come back since Dan has like 50 issues left. The mechanics of how she works and her defeat were really clever since I basically agreed with her questioning how Reed adding more bodies was going to stop a God killer.

    Great handling of all the guests and the Future Foundation. I would have thought such a large cast in 20 pages wouldn't work, but it did. Love the Hulk beat.

    That bit with Peter and Ben essentially invokes what Dan said on Word Balloon years ago when he went on a tangent about how Ben was the guy who would always get up when knocked down. It was like a nice continuity callback to something outside of a book.

    We really need to stop stressing the Val/Frank age thing. Trying to calculate a sliding timescale with numbers is just going to lead to headaches. The Val problem starts with Mark and John just writing her as like a 10 year old genius in an apparently 3 year old body. I'm just gonna accept that she's like 12.

    Props to Marte Gracia for making Nico and Sara's art go together so well. I genuinely didn't notice a change. Nico's kind of a shapeshifter artist too, so props to him as well.

    Overall, great issue and one of the best recent comic fights. Everyone's firing on all cylinders. Can't get enough of this book.

  13. #43
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    That bit with Peter and Ben essentially invokes what Dan said on Word Balloon years ago when he went on a tangent about how Ben was the guy who would always get up when knocked down. It was like a nice continuity callback to something outside of a book.
    What I got from Peter and Ben was that both characters expressed an important part of each of their beings in that scene. But the big point is that Franklin is growing up and finding his own way in the world. Franklin heeding the words of both Ben and Peter and eventually deciding which focus he will use when and how much of each he does is how we all grow up. The scene was brilliant in the characterization and its fitting into a story setting flawlessly.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    The Iceman bit was fan, especially the whole "oops, we made a mistake" message from Tom.
    Not a mistake. Slott is the master of the long game. He's also no one who's going to stumble on continuity.

    If they say there's an untold tale of Iceman joining the team, you can believe that tale is already in the works and will be told at some point in Slott's run.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I don't think anyone was reading this to see Luke Cage and Jen Walters bust heads. I am very happy with the focus being on the main members. Seeing Franklin and Val (and the other Foundation members) dealing with heroes was great. It was what we've been waiting for for years.

    I noticed the confidence and assuredness that the team would win out in the end. I assume the default is Reed's plan usually work and that the times where those plans screw up are the exceptions making for interesting stories. This was a good basic fight. It was classic FF with the team having family style dealings while also facing abstract alien concepts. Xavier might have seen something in her mind or Dr Strange might have sensed her weakness. But Reed deduced it.

    I like it. The Fantastic Four is back.
    I agree with all of this. Loved this issue. The focus was where it should be. All the characterizations were on point and, by the end of the issue, there is no doubt that the FF is back.

    Sue's rescue of Franklin was the only slightly dodgy element of the book but it's easy enough to roll with. Probably what I liked the most this issue was Slott's handling of Reed and Reed's absolute confidence - as well as the family's absolute confidence in Reed. The fact that the Griever was set up as such an all-powerful, muah-ha-ha type villain was part of what made this issue work as seeing how Reed wasn't distracted or intimated in the least by her bluster or her power and was able to simply out think her and out play her was so satisfying.

    Thumbs up too for the awesome Hulk cameo. Perfectly done.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Have not read it yet but was wondering.

    Was wasp there? Didn't she join the torchs fantastic four team years ago? (in fact it was the same team Namorita was on right?)
    Last edited by Gaastra; 11-15-2018 at 08:46 AM.

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