Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 24 of 24
  1. #16
    RIP, Norm... Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,442

    Default

    I've been thinking about this quite a bit today and have some ideas I'd really be satisfied with, though I started out thinking I wouldn't. I'll post after work but on my break, here's a crude crayon version of my New 52 costume:


  2. #17
    Took me a while, I'm back Netherman14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Metropolis, the City of Tomorrow.
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    To be frank if I'd been asked at the time how I would do it, I just wouldn't have done it. There was nothing so broken about the pre-Flashpoint Superman that it absolutely needed a reboot to fix. I'd 100% have advocated for bringing back Chris and doing, basically, stuff in the same vein as the stuff they were doing with Jon-as-Superboy during Rebirth, except calling Chris Superlad instead of Superboy, so as to avoid conflict with Conner's name. That and just... editorially mandate that Superman's got to be a decisive and passionate figure instead of a sad sack. Maybe add some more grassroots politics to Clark's experience.

    I don't have to imagine it very much because I distinctly remember the kinds of stories I was thinking I wanted for the DCU going forward at the time, and that was basically what I wanted. Meanwhile, Supergirl would have moved in with the Legion permanently, married Brainiac Five, and had a kid of her own. Also, DickBats would have stayed on a two-man-team with Damian forever. This is what I wanted at the time. I never would have come up with the New 52 or any variation on it.

    In retrospect, asking what I'd do if I went back in time now with a time machine and had a gun to my head that I have to reboot the Superman line, I basically think that Bored at 3:00AM has the right idea. Give Morrison the same basic free reign he had, keep the other writers (Johns, Perez, etc.) on the same page as him so they can't misinterpret the Man of Tomorrow as "a moody, lonely weirdo who didn’t consider himself human at all and is mistrusted by the very world he seeks to protect" as Davidmann95 pointed out that some of them did. And also fire Berganza, and also use the excellent, beautiful Reborn suit instead of Jim Lee's hot mess of extremely variable quality. I'd also have them use either the Man of Steel "S" logo or the unused All-Star logo with just the two pieces of yellow instead of five, just out of personal preference, but that's less of a real idea and more of a design choice.

    I'd also limit the failed Wonder Woman romance to maybe a six month arc and then have him date someone else in a romance equally doomed to failure, like Mayson Drake or Brainiac Five, just to show that romance doesn't have to mean soulmates. And I guess rush Supergirl into her Rebirth state instead of going through her New 52 state first. She just works better as a sweetheart.
    I'd personally use the beautiful red and black Fleischer S crest with the yellow outline, instead of the red logo with the five yellow serifs.

    Pull-List:

    DC: The Curse of Brimstone, Superman, Batman: Damned. Action Comics. The Green Lantern.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,513

    Default

    If we could avoid doing a reboot at all, I would. Despite some good things that come out of them, they never solve anything. I would try to adopt Morrison's approach of "it ALL happened," like he has done with Bruce and is seemingly poised to do with Hal. However, the problem is that Superman has been more drastically rebooted than either of them, so he's more difficult. Especially when you deal with the Kents dying before he becomes Superman or surviving until well after he gets married, and then there's Kara: Has she been around since Dick Grayson was Robin before dying in the Crisis and coming back, with a couple other Supergirls in the interim, or is she only 16 years old and the only Supergirl that ever was? or a mixture of the two?

    But beyond those, Morrison using Vyndktvx as a Big Bad who attacks Clark in various stages of his life would allow an excuse to revisit Superman's early days and bring back Golden and Silver Age elements. The T-shirt and jeans look would be in place to represent Superman's updated Golden Age adventures, but he would evolve into the Silver Age super god who would later be killed and resurrected by Doomsday and marry Lois with an extended Super family that would include Steel and Superboy. And I'd leave Morrison to his own devices to add new stuff in the mythos in the present while revisiting the Golden and Silver Age.

    If we HAD to have a reboot, then the whole universe needs to get rebooted, not just parts of it. That means Superman would start from scratch, with everything chucked so there is no confusion. I would leave Morrison's Action run as is, but replace the New 52 costume with the classic outfit or something like the DCEU/Rebirth costume if an update is required. Much better editing would be needed between title so everybody is on board. Lois would not be sidelined as extensively as she was once Grant left. There would be NO romance with Wonder Woman, or if there was, it would be much better written.

    With the universe being rebooted and younger, the extended Super family wouldn't totally be in place. Steel could exist early on I think, he was basically re-introduced fairly quickly by Morrison in his Action run. Kara would also be re-introduced after a couple years, with her classic costume and no hostility between the cousins. Characters like Kon would have to remain sidelined though. No point in having a reboot if we're cramming all the generations back in. With the Multiverse in place, maybe have another Earth for the YJ characters? That would allow the new universe to remain "young" with the possibility of changing things up, while having the 90s legacies appearing somewhere.

  4. #19

    Default

    I wouldn’t do a hard reboot, it’s not that I think post crisis is 100 percent sacred but with hindsight it was only a matter of time before a new creative team came in who wanted to build on their favorite stuff from the past than a clean slate.
    But if a hard were to happen, I’d keep the classic suit with the trunks in continuity even if it wasn’t his present day outfit. Just make it what he wore after the shirt and jeans. Time jump to the present (vague time jump, but way longer than 5 years) and he’s got the armor. No Wonder Woman romance. Clark’s love life should stay in his own corner of the dcu. Maybe have him date Lana for a while like how Barry was dating Patty in the first couple years of the reboot. I also wouldn’t make Clark (or the other leaguers) as young as they were. Having a universe where no one is over 25 is just a dumb move in an age where everyone’s favorite heroes are the ones played by Robert Dowey Jr, Ryan Reynolds and Paul Rudd, etc. And I’m saying this as someone in my early twenties, nobody is afraid or turned off by superheroes who are pushing forty.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 11-09-2018 at 11:32 PM.

  5. #20
    RIP, Norm... Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,442

    Default

    When I think of the New 52, I think of leasing a crazy sports car and driving off with a nail in the tire. For the larger DC, it was this funky "five year" timeline thing that didn't improve any of the stories. Some were good because they ignored it. And this was after all these years of grinding continuity until it was almost illegible... I mean Superman was on his fourth Zod. That five year gap had nothing going for it and unfortunately, we'd just gotten through Secret Origin recently so the fresh start didn't have its full impact. If there would be any way to help Morrison in hindsight it'd be to have him help George Perez. Those two books should have never had so much trouble linking up.

    My idea would really depend on turning three of those five years into a sidenote. I'd try to "year one" it as honestly as I can, with Superman being as young as I can get at the very front of the mythos. Indefinitely single and since I would turn 1986 into the golden age, I would turn 2011 into the bronze age. For three issues between the two titles (contained within the titles) it'd be like:

    Action Comics #1: In the 31st century, a young girl is found in a crashed shuttle. Computer scanners approximate that she's six years old and from Krypton. She manages to tell them all about her father sending her through time to escape their planet's end. They investigate her ship and when it starts beeping, she says it's found her cousin. A small group phases out and phase back in with him in tow. They realize who he is and offer a spot in the Legion, which he takes because there wasn't anything else for him in his time. He is to be the Man of Tomorrow.


    Superman #1: We see natural disasters collapse on themselves and flash to a courtroom, where we get the exposition of 11 year old Clark's history of being adopted only to lose both the Kents. He ghosts on them and gets introspective while saving a tanker. We see him living on his own and doing stuff like buying burritos at lightning speed and sleeping outside through all seasons. A buzzing leads him back to the field he crashed in, where the rocket opens up and teaches him about Krypton. It's been activated as he is officially twelve today by his Krypton age. When Clark asks himself if it's true, the Legionnaires show up and Saturn Girl confirms it's true. Happy Birthday.

    Action Comics #2: Ten years pass working with the Legion and becoming a stand out member. He finds out a very small bit about his legend, that the only information actually remaining from his time are oral dregs of his interviews with Lois Lane of the Daily Planet. This reminds him of going back to the 21st century.

    Superman #2: Lex Luthor is showing off in his armor at a convention being held, where he is just the man. He unveils a new project and glares at a scientist who points out that harnessing the radioactive warp drive from the ship doesn't check out. This scientist is later taken out back and beaten. Lex flies out to the experiment that quickly goes haywire, but the available press is quickly swooped out of the building. Luthor is saved by the shadowy figure too, but he looks very sick and completely hairless. Lois gets her first interview with Superman, who admits to being the Superboy who went viral years after the fact and who was alleged to be a young Luthor. He talks about how dumb the experiment was, mines the ship, and disappears. He's walking between shadows in Smallville when Lana finds him and mentions that she remembers him from childhood, and his secret, and offers him a job in Metropolis.

    Action Comics #3: Superman unveils the tesseract fortress that houses his new tesseract costume among other things. For two years, bylines at the top of splash pages cement key events that have a few pages each. He collars a wife beater, stops some cutting edge crooks, and teams up with Batman and Wonder Woman to bust up Amazo. After being lured by a signal to Egypt a red ray comes down and burns his face. He wakes up later with a mummy wrapped face that he can't get free. He goes back out to orbit and encounters the 400 foot sphinx who shot the ray, who also has the face of Superman. He completely fails to reason with it or harm it, but realizes it's getting stronger as an inverse of him getting weaker, hitting him with kryptonite. He starts storing the beam directly into his cells which is more painful and would be fatal, but when the Super Sphinx depletes the effect is broken and he flies the regular sphinx back to earth. Lex, healthy and hairless, is remote watching and it turns out the legendary beast was intentionally pit against Superman. Then the sphinx and its surroundings vanish right in front of him.

    Superman #3: The byline splashes from Action turn into front pages that frame Clark's progress. He enrolls in a junior college, meets Jimmy, hangs out at the DP (where the 28 year old Lois doesn't give him a single look). The internship he applied for at the DP seems like a lock, but it turns out that Perry squashed it instantly and he gets the gig at WGBS, where Lana works. He's at the DP when a byline hits that Superman has been defeated and maimed by the Super Sphinx. Lois later crosses out Clark's face from a board. Turns out she suspected the Superman connection immediately but just dismissed the notion. Right after, we see a Clark robot slip into a holding chamber. Epilogue: plain clothes Kara thinks she'll miss Kal but Cosmic Boy and Brainiac 5 tell her the training has ended and with him gone they can reveal her true mission, to aid him in the greatest era of need.

    So this would go right into Brainiac and other villains, and have one title in the past to fill those three years as they go.
    Last edited by Kuwagaton; 11-10-2018 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Typos and tweaks

  6. #21
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,588

    Default

    In hindsight I wouldn't have. N52 Superman was trying to pull the character back the Golden/Silver Age but had to account for established fans which hampered it as a concept. Post-Crisis Superman had notoriety amongst his faithful for being more of an ordinary guy who happened to get caught up in all the wackiness of the Superman franchise. Instead of trying to reboot Post-Crisis Superman into someone fans of Post-Crisis Superman would reject regardless I'd reboot Kal-L who had just been victim to a couple of hackjob storylines inflicted on him.

    It all starts with Post Crisis Superman in the aftermath of World of New Krypton storyline. Feeling glum after the second extermination of race at the hands of his adopted planet Clark throws himself more heavily into his Superman work. Lois likewise dealing with the suicide of her father and the seemingly permanent disappearance of her adopted son throws herself into her work as a reporter. Both feeling raw after the events are trying to do what they do best; help people.

    Meanwhile Lex Luthor would concurrently be having his own time space journey with hopes of finding a rumored mythical substance to finally let him kill Superman: K-Metal. It'd be the sort of storyline like Time and Time again or The Return of Bruce Wayne where Lex is bounding through all sorts of time period using his wits to conquer different problems while moving forward. For the duration of this storyline I'd probably give one of the Superbooks to Lex like they did for the Paul Cornell stories, preferably Action Comics.

    Back in the other book headlined by Supes and Lois we'd find that Lois is following a lead concerning some sort of New God weaponry that has been flowing into Metropolis following the fall of Darkseid in Final Crisis. Along for the ride is the up and coming reporter Jimmy Olsen who is along for the ride as Lois tries to shape him into her successor. They spend some time digging up dirt on the various gangs peddling New God tech and learning how the Intergang splintered into numerous sub cliques each vying for control of the New God Tech market and with it on the verge of going violent. Then we get to meet her informant The Question-Vic Sage who faked his death during 52, he's communicating to Lois via some kind of advanced communicator she got from her husband.

    From there we jump back to our MC Superman who is currently going through a far more actiony version of grounded. As far as the Daily Planet knows Clark Kent is still emotionally recovering following the bombing that happened during Final Crisis and thus taking time off. There's less pontificating but there is a certain amount of contemplation about his own reluctance to do more in the world. The focus on his Superheroics is allowing him to do a lot of good but before he can do much more he's intercepted by a time traveling Rip Hunter who grimly explains to Clark that in seven days Superman will be dead!

    I've got work to do so I'll probably post the rest later.
    OOOHHHHHH!! - Joe Rogan

  7. #22
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Hard universe wide reboot, no time skips 5 years later or otherwise, trim the supporting casts/families (the Robins, Supergirls, Steels, etc.), and work towards it. This means there wouldn't have been a Justice League title for a solid five years or more, not until all the core heroes had been built up some. Start with the origin stories, no figuring it out after the fact. Come in with a plan, and make sure every writer on every book knows what the plan is for the character they're writing, so Clark doesn't act one way in Superman and another in Action. Nothing is sacred, because none of the history has happened, so let the writers mix up the classic elements a little.

    That said, if I had to come up with all the details myself? Start it off with two miniseries, first one focusing on the classic origin pre-Metropolis with all the Smallville stuff, learning his powers and alien heritage, important family moments with Ma and Pa Kent, that sort of thing. Kind of like a mix between the early parts of Birthright and American Alien. End it with him leaving home on a bus for Metropolis (because of course Clark takes the bus with his luggage!). Second one focuses not on his origin as Superman, but on his origin as a superhero - the first big adventure time traveling with the Legion of Superheroes. This adventure is where Clark learns what it means to be a hero, with all the initial doubts, fear, acceptance, and overcoming that happens in youth.

    While those two origin stories are going on, we also have a dedicated Lois Lane book where she's just starting out at the Daily Planet. Have her stumble across various supernatural and science fiction level crimes and threats that she can't publish because until people see a guy fly on a daily basis no one is going to believe it, while also having her deal with mobsters and the like, always scraping by on her skills, gumption, grit, and journalistic integrity, no damsel in distress here. Have her butt heads with Lex Luthor and all that.

    Finally we start with Clark's final origin as Superman in Metroplois, meeting Lois, Lex, Jimmy, and fighting villainy. Blue jeans and t-shirt look for a solid two years or better, before maybe something like the Rebirth costume. No trunks, not ever. They are fine in old continuities, but in a fresh new hardline reboot? They don't exist, and he'll never wear them.

    And give all the writers itching to return the previous continuity back to the mainline some Elseworlds mini-series to focus on instead.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14,847

    Default

    All other things being equal, the only thing I would have changed is made Morrison communicate better what he was doing in Action with Perez so he could plan accordingly. Maybe then the Superman title, which I maintain was the era's only real problem, wouldn't have had the turn over it did, had it avoided that shaky start. Later down the line, I would have also ditched the weird edict against Pak using Lois in Action Comics (I don't buy it was because of WW, because the Superman title was allowed to use her just fine). But yeah, mostly a concentrated effort to keep Superman consistent. Every other title was great to good (yes I'm counting SM/WW, all that would have stayed). Well, if we're being particular, the Diggle Action-era amounted to nothing but it was also short enough that it was just an interlude before Pak/Kuder. Outside of that it was fire from the beginning to Truth when DC was in the process of tearing it all down.

    Not rebooting Batman and GL with pretty much the rest of the line and the five year gap were huge mistakes too, but I'm sticking to just Superman specific here.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-10-2018 at 05:45 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  9. #24
    Amazing Member Yoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    30

    Default

    I think all the parts for a solid reboot are already in the continuity. They just need to be reorganized and restructured. If you were going to do a complete reboot like in Crisis on Infinite Earths, and want to restart the line from a coherent place with as much of the present continuity to go forward you could do it relatively easily by merging a solid chunk of what already exists.

    I think the format would be a 12 issue bi-weekly maxi series reestablishing Superman as the primary superhero in the DCU and the first of the modern age of heroes leading into a reestablished DCU. I call it the New 52 done sensibly.

    1. Would be Krypton - using the mixed version with the different guilds. Incorporate Brainiac as the collector of worlds a la sci-fi's Krypton. He takes Kandor, but Jor El stops him by sucking his whole ship into the Phantom Zone. Planet is unstable. Zod's banished to the PZ in a failed coup after being betrayed by Jor El. End with the destruction of Krypton and Kal landing in Kansas.

    2. Young Clark coming of age in Smallville. I'm thinking go age 6 to like 18. He has the strength, speed, but no flight, x-ray, heat vision at this point. Small adventures in his teens local low key social justice stuff in secret. Confesses to Lana, learns he's an alien. Hint at the Legion. NO KID LUTHOR. Pa Kent dies of a heart attack to cement that he can't save everyone.

    3. College age Clark on walkabout a la Birthright and Man of Steel (DCEU). Doing good around the world as the T-Shirt and Jeans Morrison version/Clark Kent as a writer. Kinda like an Anthony Bourdain type, he writes freelance. Introduce Lois as a young intrepid war reporter who encounters tangentially T-Shirt Supe's good deeds. He knows she's onto him as she gets closer and closer to tracking him down but there is no direct interaction. Hint at Wonder Woman's existence here. Clarks powers should be increasing throughout this time period leading to flight and ultimately the creation of the Fortress.

    4. Metropolis/Lois centric issue. Establish the Daily Planet supporting cast through Lois. It's been a few years an she's now taking on Luthor and the other corruption in Metropolis after being kinda burned chasing the mystery do-gooder. She's reestablishing herself as a crusading reporter. A page or two of Clark returning to Smallville because Ma Kent is getting older and she's on her way out.

    5. Establish Clark Kent in Metropolis. He notices Lois through her writing in the Planet. Ma Kent passes quietly. Clark move to Metropolis. Lois is still trying to take down Luthor. Establish Intergang working against her. Hint at Batman here as well since this is whole story is the backbone of the rebirth of the DCU. Luthor finally gets fed up and authorizes Intergang to take Lois out, sabotaging the helicopter. Big reveal of Superman in costume for the first time saves her. This is a classic meet cute for Lois and Superman. You get the montage of him doing good over a span of time. Lois breaks the story and names him. The close of this book is Clark Kent joining the Daily Planet. But the last page twist is Lois cornering him at his desk and quietly asking where he keeps his cape under the business suit. This is Lois F'n Lane, she knows from the jump.

    6. Double sized issue establishing Superman in Metropolis/Lois & Clark at the Daily Planet. Spans several years establish the the beginnings of their relationship. Lois and Clark end up together, but not publicly. Superman is still the only public superhero, but there's rumors of others. Batman is a friendly rival to Superman. Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, etc. Introduce Metallo/Parasite. Luthor, now obsessed with alien life establishes STAR Labs. John Henry and Hensaw are scientists there. Luthor utilizing salvaged alien tech rediscovers the Phantom Zone and inadvertently releases Doomsday. Hensaw is sucked into the Phantom Zone in the process.

    7. Start of Doomsday. He's tearing through the midwest from Luthor's secret STAR facility in the Rockies. Superman along with the military are battling him along the way. This is a homage to the original Doomsday storyline. But we introduce the rest of the Justice League along the way, this is the inciting event for the new age of heroes. Leads to Metropolis.

    8. DOOMSDAY - Basically redo the Death of Superman here. Borrows from the Death of Superman animated movie. Stops Doomsday, "dying" in the process. Justice League forms inspired by his selfless sacrifice. Lois working with Batman intern Superman's body in the Fortress.

    9. Aftermath. Justice League has formed. Luthor escaped responsibility for the release of Doomsday, but Lois is obsessed with bringing him down because he killed Clark. Hint at cloning program to establish Kon. Lois eventually confronts Luthor and Luthor, finally fed up with the game goes to kill her. He's stopped by Cyborg Superman.

    10. Cyborg Superman issue - Confronts the Justice League. Doesn't want anything to do with Lois. Acting brutal and shady as hell. At the end, it's revealed he's Hensaw and was plucked from the Phantom Zone by Brainiac who also was able to escape because of Luthor's stupidity and is now on his way to Earth.

    11. Brainiac attacks Earth working with Cyborg Superman. Cyborg Superman takes out most of the Justice League, Brainiac goes after Metropolis. Last page is Superman Reborn. Black-Jim Lee inspired Kryptonian armor since he's weakened from resurrection. Give him the mullet too!

    12. Double sized issue - Superman vs Cyborg Superman and Brainiac. Massive battle. Superman is victorious. Black armor is destroyed and we get an updated Rebirth inspired costume afterwards when he joins the Justice League. Clark & Lois reunited, but not together right away. Leaves room to build a public Lois & Clark relationship. The restarted DCU timeline picks up from here. You can reintroduce Kara and Kon eventually.

    You have an established, experienced and respected Superman to work with. Superman doesn’t work as a contemporary novice to the rest of the ongoing DCU. He’s like Captain America. The natural leader, the moral center.

    From there you have Superman as the main title with the ongoing adventures. Action Comics focuses on the Daily Planet stuff, but also has an anthology Adventures of Superman where you can fill in whatever stories you want from the different points above. You get to restart with an established Superman as the central leader of the DCU for the ongoing books. You have all the pieces of the continuity to play with. You can tell stories from whenever in Adventures. You want a Morrison SJW story, you got it. Smallville story. Go ahead. Early single Superman. Why the f' not. Lois Lane X-Flies stories. Go nuts.
    Last edited by Yoda; 11-10-2018 at 08:29 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •