What's your opinion of teen Clark as Superboy?

[Ascended]

This raises the question, who should be in on the secret? The family doctor, maybe. If needles can't break his skin, the doctor will want to know why. The police chief if Clark is truly helping to catch criminals. Past that I don't know that any of the residents need to know. In the Superboy comics, Smallville always came across like Mayberry. A place where bank robbers kept passing through just to see if they could knock off the place. Which made no sense considering it was the only small town in America with it's own super-hero. One would think criminals would avoid it like the plague.

Well, who *needs* to know in Smallville depends on how you handle Clark's powers. If we take a pre-Crisis approach, then it'd have to be the family doctor, the school principal perhaps, school nurse......maybe a few people within the city like the chief of police or mayor.

If you take a post-Crisis approach, where Clark's powers didn't really develop until his teen years, then no one needs to know. Growing up Clark might have thick skin and break a few extra needles when he gets a shot, but he wouldn't stand out enough for anyone to have a secret to keep. Not unless his organs and blood type are so wildly different from our own that a cursory examination would reveal something.

If you do a Morrison style fusion where Clark's got Golden Age-ish powers from birth and becomes stronger with age, once again you can probably avoid very many people knowing at all. The family doctor is likely the only person who would need to know.....and as far as that person would be concerned, Clark would just be a unusually strong child with thick skin, but probably wouldn't be such an oddity that it'd raise any attention. As with post-Crisis, the really crazy stuff with Clark wouldn't happen until he was older, and by that age you can slip past your doctor's appointments a lot easier than a small child can. Not many people think much of it if the sixteen year old doesn't show up for his yearly exam.

Which is likely all for the best. I grew up in a small town, visited a number of others, and it seems that the only constant is that there is no secret keeping. I very much dislike the notion that a whole town would manage to keep a secret as big as Clark Kent. That strikes me as more far-fetched than a flying man.

[magha_regulus]

As far as I'm concerned superman is best when he had acareer as superboy first. It adds to why he's so much more experienced than the other heroes as well as his standing as an inspirational figure among them. Having superman be a hero since his youth adds so much to himas a character. I want him to not only be an active part of the legion but also to have been in smallville in uniform as an active superhero. We need a well thought out iconic modern masterpiece depicting public debut of Superboy and the implications the arrival of a heroic alien child would bring.

[Jon Clark]

I think Clark picks option C: help out with the wildfires but not be caught doing it.

Smallville laid out the perfect methodology for this and showed that you can indeed have Clark perform incredible, heroic feats without being in the public eye.

Additionally I like the idea that young Clark was this urban myth; a folktale in the Midwest no more "real" than Bigfoot or ghosts or aliens. And then one day, after years of rumors and blurry, unfocused photographs, he makes a public debut. Now the whole world has to sit back and say "Well crap, that "super boy" was real.....what if all these other myths and legends are too?" The idea that Superman's debut forces us to re-evaluate what is, or could be, real is a huge part of the impact Superman carries into the future. He tells us that there are no limits, that our wildest imaginations could be right about everything, and that should inspire and galvanize the world into exploring more, asking more questions, pushing our understanding of the universe further and in new directions.

The only quibble I have is that option C is less a choice and more a hope. Clark can't really choose not to be caught. He can choose to make an effort to stay out of sight, but he has to know that it isn't a given (unless we have him already moving invisibly fast before his first outing) that someone won't catch him on film. And as we get more into the era where everyone has a camera phone and always has had one, it's more of a question how teen Clark stayed off YouTube. And if he was that successful just why adult Clark ever put on the costume and went public rather than staying an urban legend.

I'm more for Superboy being a less active Superman. He's not patrolling Smallville looking for muggings. And unlike the TV show there is no "freak of the week" to deal with. So Superboy isn't a local presence in his hometown. He's more of a Clark hears a news story about an ongoing incident- tornadoes a few towns over, a search in California for some missing hikers that is going into it's 6th hour, a police stand-off in Kansas City or Topeka- and he shows up to help. At least early on he just acts without doing much talking to anyone. later he might talk to the officer's in charge about how he can help, but still steers clear of the press (no statements or interviews though he isn't avoiding being photographed since whatever tricks he'll perfect for keeping the dual ID are enough in effect that none of the shots connects him to an obscure kid named Kent from a hick town)

[greatmetropolitan]

I'm always very cautious when it comes to Clark's involvement with the Legion as a kid, because I don't think he should know ANYTHING about his destiny at all until he decides it for himself. The idea of him knowing he'll become a hero is something I hate, because it almost takes away the element of choice for him. For me, Clark has to choose to be a hero with no knowledge of how it'll turn out, the legend he'll be. He has to do it because it's the ring thing to do, because he's Clark, not because he'll be Superman one day.

That being said, I know a lot of people are very invested in the Legion connection, so my fix is that the Legion pick Clark up now and again, give him his suit, he helps them, but when they put him back, Saturn Girl puts memory blocks in, to take away any knoweledge of the future he may have, to take away the chance of him changing the future, or of the future influencing him. Then when they pick him up again they just restore the memories. All perfectly consensual, something Clark agrees with and actually requests.

Then, one day, when he's already Superman, the blocks come down, his memories of his friends come flooding back, and he turns and the Legion are behind him, "It's good to see you again, Clark". It's a joyous moment for him, as he recalls incredible friendships and realises that he did the right thing by deciding to be Superman.

As for a "Superboy of Smallville" thing, I think he'd do it on the quiet as his powers develop. I'm in the "Clark can't fly till he's 18" camp. But a t-shirt he stitched the S into himself and a red mask over his face as he helps out with fires and tornadoes and the like. He's Clark, he's going to help everyone whenever he can, it's in his nature, even as a kid.

[superduperman]

I'm always very cautious when it comes to Clark's involvement with the Legion as a kid, because I don't think he should know ANYTHING about his destiny at all until he decides it for himself. The idea of him knowing he'll become a hero is something I hate, because it almost takes away the element of choice for him. For me, Clark has to choose to be a hero with no knowledge of how it'll turn out, the legend he'll be. He has to do it because it's the ring thing to do, because he's Clark, not because he'll be Superman one day.

That being said, I know a lot of people are very invested in the Legion connection, so my fix is that the Legion pick Clark up now and again, give him his suit, he helps them, but when they put him back, Saturn Girl puts memory blocks in, to take away any knoweledge of the future he may have, to take away the chance of him changing the future, or of the future influencing him. Then when they pick him up again they just restore the memories. All perfectly consensual, something Clark agrees with and actually requests.

Then, one day, when he's already Superman, the blocks come down, his memories of his friends come flooding back, and he turns and the Legion are behind him, "It's good to see you again, Clark". It's a joyous moment for him, as he recalls incredible friendships and realises that he did the right thing by deciding to be Superman.

As for a "Superboy of Smallville" thing, I think he'd do it on the quiet as his powers develop. I'm in the "Clark can't fly till he's 18" camp. But a t-shirt he stitched the S into himself and a red mask over his face as he helps out with fires and tornadoes and the like. He's Clark, he's going to help everyone whenever he can, it's in his nature, even as a kid.

That's kind of how they did it pre-Crisis. Anytime he learned anything about his future, she wiped his memory. Like when he would work with Supergirl. To me the Legion is problematic for a number of reasons. One is the fact that you're basically putting the greatest hero in history at risk before he even has a chance to become that hero. What if he gets killed in battle? The Legion went up against some things that could harm even him. And there were more than a few instances when he was put in a position he couldn't easily get out of. It just seems irresponsible to me to take that risk. The other is the fact that we're talking about a team that takes place a thousand years in the future. We have no concept of what the world will look like a thousand years from now. This makes keeping up with future technology kind of difficult. Especially when the real world outpaces the tech used in the stories. Even as late as the nineties you had a Legion that was still using pushbuttons. To me, the Legion makes more sense as a group of heroes from other planets but in his own time. So they come to him whenever they need his help but they aren't messing up the timeline.

[LordUltimus]

That's kind of how they did it pre-Crisis. Anytime he learned anything about his future, she wiped his memory. Like when he would work with Supergirl. To me the Legion is problematic for a number of reasons. One is the fact that you're basically putting the greatest hero in history at risk before he even has a chance to become that hero. What if he gets killed in battle? The Legion went up against some things that could harm even him. And there were more than a few instances when he was put in a position he couldn't easily get out of. It just seems irresponsible to me to take that risk.

You could have it that Clark gets sent to the future accidentally and they don't have the Time Bubble yet, so he stays with them for a time before coming back with his memories voluntarily erased.

[greatmetropolitan]

If I had free reign I'd just remove the Legion from Clark's backstory entirely, to be honest, but there are several ways with comic book logic/story tropes to make them fit without endangering the timeline, I think. I just prefer Clark as a kinda lonely kid with a heart of gold, Pete Ross and Lana Lang his only real friends.

I also like to remove as much tragedy as possible from Clark's upbringing and history. Krypton is plenty, but he shouldn't even know about that till after he puts on the costume. He becomes Superman not because of tragedy or to honour a dead father or anything like that, but because he wants to help and it's the right thing to do. More than any other hero, Superman is not motivated by tragedy or darkness, or even destiny. If you absolutely must kill the Kents, do it after he's Superman, not before, but even at that, I think the stories are more interesting with the Kents alive than dead.

[Sacred Knight]

Superman has never been motivated by tragedy or darkness though, even in the original continuities where the Kents died nor in the New 52 which brought the classic set up back. The Kents have died with a tragic element to it classically, yes, but that was never painted as his main motivation for doing anything. The tragic element in Superman's origin is not defining for him in of himself. Because his loved ones who have passed have already helped define him well before that point. That's what makes it different from truly dark origin stories like Batman, where death and darkness starts the journey. The death of the Kents don't start Clark's journey, its another step in path he'd already been going down well before then. Thanks to the lessons they taught him while they were still alive. They gave him the platform and he chose to go forward with it. I mean, does honoring them factor in? Of course it does, what person with loving parents does not want to honor loved ones who have gone, especially parents? And yes the Kents, especially Jonathan, wanted him to use his powers to help mankind. But its never been painted as a situation that he flat-out wouldn't have done it in the first place had that not been on his plate. Maybe the OGN's came close, but never in the main comics. Its always been a mix of just wanting to help because its the right thing to do and also wanting to make his parents proud. They're far from mutually exclusive ideas. The Kents dying automatically giving him a dark origin does not stand up to scrutiny of the way any origin story has ever told it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Dealing with the death of a parent/loved one is something we all have to deal with in life eventually. The Kents being dead is not overly tragic, it's just life. Especially in the versions where Jonathan dies of natural causes. And Clark had to deal with it as he was on the verge of adulthood; it's never easy, but that's easier. He didn't lose them in a sudden, violent act like Bruce lost his (when he was 8-10, not almost adult), it's never really been the same. And people don't react to these things the same ways, so Clark has no reason to be darkened by it, as he never has.

Really, of the Trinity's parents, I think only Hippolyta has enough going on to justify still being around during her child's adult life. But even with her, there's always a cloud of "her days are numbered" hanging over her since her dying and passing the mantle of Queen to Diana seems the natural end of their story together.

[Adekis]

I'm always very cautious when it comes to Clark's involvement with the Legion as a kid, because I don't think he should know ANYTHING about his destiny at all until he decides it for himself. The idea of him knowing he'll become a hero is something I hate, because it almost takes away the element of choice for him. For me, Clark has to choose to be a hero with no knowledge of how it'll turn out, the legend he'll be. He has to do it because it's the ring thing to do, because he's Clark, not because he'll be Superman one day.

I'm definitely very sympathetic to this view, the idea that if he decides to be Superman because he knows he's going to be Superman, then it's just a bootstrap paradox, not a choice. I don't really know how to square this circle to be honest, because I absolutely love the "Superboy and the Legion" material! Even if he becomes a Legionnaire as a young man or a fully grown adult rather than as an eight or sixteen year old kid, that's still something of a problem because it still assures him of his legacy, allows him to know he's right. That's a problem, because the uncertainty which must be inherent in his decision to do something as crazy as don the colors of a dead world and fight for the weak and the oppressed is very important to me. Grant Morrison more or less managed to make it work just by never really drawing attention to the discrepancy. There's only one story where Clark ever seems to know and it doesn't really affect his pseudo Golden Age period. At the same time, thinking about it for even a few minutes, the thing falls apart a little just like you said.

One solution might be to distance the future and present entirely, so that the only link between the twentieth and thirtieth centuries is Mon-El, or maybe a version of Supergirl who either decides to move as in JLU or just never shows up in the 21st century, a la "Superboy's Legion", but that's somehow not that satisfying to me either. Sure, the Legion will always be connected to Superman in an unavoidable way, but I still want actual team-ups with them.

There is one strange element that kind of mixes it up to me - the weirdness of the fact that in the Silver Age, the Legion was inspired by Superboy and initially did not know that he would grow up to be Superman. I think they mentioned something about a disaster that damaged twentieth-century records, something like that. I've always been fascinated by the idea of a Kal-El who practices as Superboy and then grows up to contend with, basically, the end of civilization as he knows it, a nuclear war perhaps, something like the Fallout video game series. The idea would be to divert Superboy and the Legion entirely into a parallel universe. This idea isn't entirely satisfying either, but at least I'm certain it would make for a very interesting elseworld or imaginary story!

Of course, the concept of the Legion not knowing about Superman was dropped from the comics very early on - as early as the story where Supergirl tries to hook a fully grown Superman up with a fully grown Saturn Woman, not knowing she's married to Lightning Man!

Ultimately, I think this is just one of those things where I have to accept the inconsistency. The Morrisonian "well, it's still his choice even though he knows about the Legion, because he has no idea how to get from point A to point B," might be the best Legion-inclusive option at this point. Besides, we can hardly say it was their idea that he become Superman or Superboy - Clark was already in costume enthusiastically, pulling super-pranks on local bullies, by the time they Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl meet him for the first time.

[Ascended]

The only quibble I have is that option C is less a choice and more a hope. Clark can't really choose not to be caught. He can choose to make an effort to stay out of sight, but he has to know that it isn't a given (unless we have him already moving invisibly fast before his first outing) that someone won't catch him on film. And as we get more into the era where everyone has a camera phone and always has had one, it's more of a question how teen Clark stayed off YouTube. And if he was that successful just why adult Clark ever put on the costume and went public rather than staying an urban legend.

Eh, as an adult Clark refuses to wear a mask and is one of the most high profile people on the planet, and during the day surrounds himself with people who's job is to uncover secrets and expose the truth. Option C might be a "hope" and not a certainty, but Clark lives his life off of hope.

As for why he'd decide to go public after years of covert action....he decides to be the symbol people need him to be. To embrace his heritage and use that to benefit his adopted world. Just like always. I don't think whether he does any stealth heroism before going public really makes much of a difference in this choice, personally.

And we're not quite at the point yet where a young Clark would have to worry about Youtube anyway. Assuming the guy is somewhere between 30 and 40-ish, cell phones (and their cameras) wouldn't have been a big thing when he was a teenager. They were only starting to become common place then. That'll be a consideration in another ten years or so (maybe less), but not just yet. I mean, Im 37, and while we had the net when I was in high school, it wasn't what it is now. People didn't take photos of everything, people didn't post their bathroom habits online, etc. And if any video of Clark did get posted online....it's the Internet. Who's gonna believe it?

I'm always very cautious when it comes to Clark's involvement with the Legion as a kid, because I don't think he should know ANYTHING about his destiny at all until he decides it for himself. The idea of him knowing he'll become a hero is something I hate, because it almost takes away the element of choice for him. For me, Clark has to choose to be a hero with no knowledge of how it'll turn out, the legend he'll be. He has to do it because it's the ring thing to do, because he's Clark, not because he'll be Superman one day.

You solve your own concern; Clark has his memories (willingly, purposefully) erased when he goes home. Pretty sure that's how it used to be, anyway.

For myself, I think Clark seeing the future is important to his development. Clark has a "big picture" mentality and is actively trying to steer humanity towards the Legion's future. He's not just putting out fires, stopping criminals, and hoping that people follow his example. He's got a plan, an endgame result he's hoping we'll reach, and his work as Superman and Clark both are designed to show us the path to that future. He can't drag us there (that would defeat the purpose and ensure humanity never gets that far), but he is very much trying to steer us there.

So I like the idea that Clark has these memories of a bright and wonderful future....but it's distorted slightly by his own absence. He'll remember a particular street, but in the middle of that street is a big blank spot where *something* is supposed to be....but he has no idea what. He just knows that whatever it is, him knowing about it could influence the future. He never imagines that the thing that was wiped from his mind was a statue of Superman.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'd prefer his first public appearance be in Metropolis as Superman, so I would stick to him being Superboy in the far future with the Legion of Super-Heroes while operating secretly in Smallville.

[Jon Clark]

Eh, as an adult Clark refuses to wear a mask and is one of the most high profile people on the planet, and during the day surrounds himself with people who's job is to uncover secrets and expose the truth. Option C might be a "hope" and not a certainty, but Clark lives his life off of hope.

Like a said it was more a quibble than anything. I just see the "operate in the shadows" as something Clark would try and fail at early on.

As for why he'd decide to go public after years of covert action....he decides to be the symbol people need him to be. To embrace his heritage and use that to benefit his adopted world. Just like always. I don't think whether he does any stealth heroism before going public really makes much of a difference in this choice, personally.

It's just one of those things where the longer Clark successfully operates out of the public eye, the less sense it makes for him to willingly enter it. Superman going public on November 12 in his first actual rescue makes it obvious why it was November 12. Superman operating behind the scenes for several years makes it more of a question why he goes public on November 12 rather than November 11 or July 4 or December 1.

And we're not quite at the point yet where a young Clark would have to worry about Youtube anyway. Assuming the guy is somewhere between 30 and 40-ish, cell phones (and their cameras) wouldn't have been a big thing when he was a teenager. They were only starting to become common place then. That'll be a consideration in another ten years or so (maybe less), but not just yet. I mean, Im 37, and while we had the net when I was in high school, it wasn't what it is now. People didn't take photos of everything, people didn't post their bathroom habits online, etc. And if any video of Clark did get posted online....it's the Internet. Who's gonna believe it?.

One shot or a dozen blurry ones spread over several years. No one buys it. But if even one person is ready yhr next time and the time after that then we get a dozen different shots from the same rescue and say 100 shots in a month. Starts to add up. And while you are right today a 37 year old Superboy wouldn't have had the problem, in a few years a 25 year old Superboy would have debuted in the You Tube age and with each following year it will more and more be taken for granted that Clark grew up in that age.

[Ascended]

Like a said it was more a quibble than anything. I just see the "operate in the shadows" as something Clark would try and fail at early on.

Oh, I got ya man. We're just debating the minutia. :P

It would be fun to see Clark try his hand at covert heroics and be really bad at it.

It's just one of those things where the longer Clark successfully operates out of the public eye, the less sense it makes for him to willingly enter it. Superman going public on November 12 in his first actual rescue makes it obvious why it was November 12. Superman operating behind the scenes for several years makes it more of a question why he goes public on November 12 rather than November 11 or July 4 or December 1.

Eh, you're just talking motivation. You need that for everything. Doesn't matter how or when Superman/boy debuts, you need a motivation for Clark to take that step. That's not a hurdle, that's a story.

And while you are right today a 37 year old Superboy wouldn't have had the problem, in a few years a 25 year old Superboy would have debuted in the You Tube age and with each following year it will more and more be taken for granted that Clark grew up in that age.

We got enough issues to deal with in the House of El already (though fewer than we did). Tomorrow's problems can be tomorrow's problems.

[KC]

I loved it. I think it is a great part of the character's history.