Kryptonians vs. Heralds

[The Arbiter]

Arena match. All matches are equalized speed.

Post Crisis vs 616.


Supergirl (red ring era)
Cyborg Superman (yellow ring era)
Zod (sundipped)

Vs.

Stardust
Firelord
Air Walker
Terrax

BONUS: Those 3 vs. Just Surfer alone. Yes, I am of the opinion Surfer far outstrips most of his compatriots in feats.

[The Chou Lives]

On fight o e Terrax is the strongest, The others were crap I think.

2:

Err Surfer still kills them all, easy. If he wants it that way.

[The Dork Knight]

Supergirl had a red ring post crisis?

When you say sundipped, from the feats we have seen Kryptonians do (not Zod), they could take Surfer. Stuff like heating up the planet with HV is up there but there's the time Supes was about to override the power of the Warlogog and pushing against War World and what not

[The Chou Lives]

Only if Surfer plays around. He is still insanely fast, has energy draining powers plus transmutation. Like steal Zodd sun, and the others Ring energy, then whatever.

[The Arbiter]

Supergirl had a red ring post crisis?

When you say sundipped, from the feats we have seen Kryptonians do (not Zod), they could take Surfer. Stuff like heating up the planet with HV is up there but there's the time Supes was about to override the power of the Warlogog and pushing against War World and what not

Was it Nu 52? If so, that.

[The Dork Knight]

Only if Surfer plays around. He is still insanely fast, has energy draining powers plus transmutation. Like steal Zodd sun, and the others Ring energy, then whatever.

Matches are speed equalised

And I don't think Surfer can completely drain a regular Kryptonian, much less a sun dipped one

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Matches are speed equalised

And I don't think Surfer can completely drain a regular Kryptonian, much less a sun dipped one

Did it to the Hulk, could also jus turn their blood to Kyrptonite

[The Dork Knight]

Did it to the Hulk, could also jus turn their blood to Kyrptonite

He did it to '70s Hulk. It isn't quite the same thing. They've met numerous times since and he hasn't done that. Notably when he was Bannerless Hulk he tried that move but couldn't drain him (Surfer said it was because there was no Banner left buuut the Hulk is still gamma radiation class 100, and the move was "killing" him but not before he could power out of it)

Kryptonite cannot be easily replicated and Surfer does not have feats for affecting the blood of class 100s like that

[Pendaran]

He did it to '70s Hulk. It isn't quite the same thing. They've met numerous times since and he hasn't done that. Notably when he was Bannerless Hulk he tried that move but couldn't drain him (Surfer said it was because there was no Banner left buuut the Hulk is still gamma radiation class 100, and the move was "killing" him but not before he could power out of it)

Kryptonite cannot be easily replicated and Surfer does not have feats for affecting the blood of class 100s like that

The 70s Hulk was entirely potent just fine, and the entire point of the Bannerless Hulk was that there was nothing for the Surfer to drain the Hulk back into being. There's not a lot of reason to regard the Surfer's statement as meaningless as far as qualifying why he couldn't drain the Hulk.

More to the point, the Hulk was at that point an interdimensional energy nexus, something the Surfer himself picked up on. I feel like it's not really a meaningful knock on his drain abilities otherwise that he couldn't drain out the intersection point between a couple of realities.


And even with all that aside? As long as the Surfer drains a significant chunk of the energies of the person he's fighting such that their abilities depend on how charged up with energy they are, that's still going to significantly impair them.



edit: with that said, with speed equalized, rings and a sundip, they really just need to be up in the Surfers face to prevent him from busting out moves like that.

Kryptonite cannot be easily replicated and Surfer does not have feats for affecting the blood of class 100s like that

His cosmic awareness does things like give him Gladiator's specific frequency of radiation weakness. It's not really a leap to regardless note it would give him things like that of kryptonite as far as at the least duping its radiation signature. Or red sunlight, or what have you. If given the opportunity to dip into esoterica, he could ruin a lot of days. The main strategy here would be to not let him, which people should be capable of fine (pour on attacks from range, close and keep in his face).

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

He did it to '70s Hulk. It isn't quite the same thing. They've met numerous times since and he hasn't done that. Notably when he was Bannerless Hulk he tried that move but couldn't drain him (Surfer said it was because there was no Banner left buuut the Hulk is still gamma radiation class 100, and the move was "killing" him but not before he could power out of it)

Kryptonite cannot be easily replicated and Surfer does not have feats for affecting the blood of class 100s like that

Pen beat me to the point about the Hulk drain, but as with most thing transmutation.

Feats for Kryptonian resistance to such ?

Though again, even without that on the table (and there's no reason to assume it's not yet), Red Sun Radiation is easily replicated, and Surfer can do that too.

[The Dork Knight]

The 70s Hulk was entirely potent just fine, and the entire point of the Bannerless Hulk was that there was nothing for the Surfer to drain the Hulk back into being. There's not a lot of reason to regard the Surfer's statement as meaningless as far as qualifying why he couldn't drain the Hulk.

More to the point, the Hulk was at that point an interdimensional energy nexus, something the Surfer himself picked up on. I feel like it's not really a meaningful knock on his drain abilities otherwise that he couldn't drain out the intersection point between a couple of realities.

The '70s Hulk was barely a class 100, just like most Marvel bricks till the modern age. Like going by feats and all, he was probably modern Ben Grimn levels at best and definitely well below post crisis Kryptonians. He nearly collapsed (with help) under the weight of a mountain in the '80s

The nexus thing makes it unusable probably but Hulk is still gamma energy Banner or no Banner. Draining that completely should have left nothing, regardless of whether Banner the insignificant human existed or not.

But anyway, Surfer has had a pretty long career, when else has he come close to draining actual class 100s of their energy source, much less ones with multiple feats of resisting energy drains?

And even with all that aside? As long as the Surfer drains a significant chunk of the energies of the person he's fighting such that their abilities depend on how charged up with energy they are, that's still going to significantly impair them.

Fair point. Although rather irrelevant here as the rings and the sundip should shield against drainage anyway

His cosmic awareness does things like give him Gladiator's specific frequency of radiation weakness. It's not really a leap to regardless note it would give him things like that of kryptonite as far as at the least duping its radiation signature. Or red sunlight, or what have you. If given the opportunity to dip into esoterica, he could ruin a lot of days. The main strategy here would be to not let him, which people should be capable of fine (pour on attacks from range, close and keep in his face).

The thing with Kryptonite is it literally doesn't work if it's from a different universe, aside from telepaths needing to get the exact formula and stuff to make it work. I'm not saying Surfer wouldn't eventually get there but only if all three just stand there doing nothing

Red Sun again should be cancelled by the rings and/or sundip

[The Arbiter]

Pen beat me to the point about the Hulk drain, but as with most thing transmutation.

Feats for Kryptonian resistance to such ?

Though again, even without that on the table (and there's no reason to assume it's not yet), Red Sun Radiation is easily replicated, and Surfer can do that too.

IIRC, he had the iron in his blood turned to salt and resisted it. Like it messed him up, but the transmuter was like "wtf did it not work?". Like a partial resistance.

DK probably knows the full context better than me.

Edit: I think I'm blending two examples

[The Dork Knight]

Pen beat me to the point about the Hulk drain, but as with most thing transmutation.

Feats for Kryptonian resistance to such ?

Though again, even without that on the table (and there's no reason to assume it's not yet), Red Sun Radiation is easily replicated, and Surfer can do that too.

There's plenty out there, this one I have saved

https://m.imgur.com/a/eX4IS

As for Red Sun, lantern rings should take care of that and I doubt its going to work on a sundipped Kryptonian anyway

[The Dork Knight]

IIRC, he had the iron in his blood turned to salt and resisted it. Like it messed him up, but the transmuter was like "wtf did it not work?". Like a partial resistance.

DK probably knows the full context better than me.

Eh he probably didnt "resist" it so much as last long enough to take down the guy. At which point his blood presumably turned back to normal because healing factor and such? I mean he specifically "recovered" and was back to full form so there's at least a post transmutation override thing going there. Interesting to note that full on transmutation didn't work (it worked on other leaguers in the story).

There are quite a few examples of transmutation resistance though. There's a 3 parter where a dying Superman's blood is still superstrong and knocks around Superboy with antibodies and such as far as his blood also being strong goes, and stuff like Manchester Black called his capillaries tubes of concrete and what not

[The Arbiter]

Eh he probably didnt "resist" it so much as last long enough to take down the guy. At which point his blood presumably turned back to normal because healing factor and such? I mean he specifically "recovered" and was back to full form so there's at least a post transmutation override thing going there. Interesting to note that full on transmutation didn't work (it worked on other leaguers in the story).

There are quite a few examples of transmutation resistance though. There's a 3 parter where a dying Superman's blood is still superstrong and knocks around Superboy with antibodies and such as far as his blood also being strong goes, and stuff like Manchester Black called his capillaries tubes of concrete and what not

It didn't help that I'm like 80% sure I was blending two feats together. One of which involving kryptonite. Stoopid old man brain!

There are other times when the guy has been fused INSIDE the molecules of a table but managed to recover. That seems like a similar vein of esoterica. Like it messed him up but he patched himself together