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  1. #316
    Incredible Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders View Post
    I hear many complaints from people I personally know. The problem is by being under the Disney brand, they are limited on what they can do. They have to keep things under a Soft PG-13, with limits their creative freedom.

    Kathleen Kennedy and Kevin Fiege should be lobbing Disney to move them under Fox.
    Name one "hard pg 13" that has made a billion dollars? Better yet what X-men movie has made a billion dollars? They are 36 movies that have made billions, Disney has around 20 of them. What is pitch lets make another Logan 600 million or DoFP 747 million .The best fox movies appeal to a smaller crowd .The X-men franchise not having a movie with a billion made is about as big failure a Justice League and Batman v Superman movies missing the mark.

    Pretend you are investor making a case for darker movies. What are you saying? Hey Disney lets make movies like Fox because Fox movies did so well with the fans? You going to point at the success of the dark DCEU? What case can make that Disney isn't going look at just laugh you out the room?

  2. #317
    Incredible Member Raiders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Name one "hard pg 13" that has made a billion dollars? Better yet what X-men movie has made a billion dollars? They are 36 movies that have made billions, Disney has around 20 of them. What is pitch lets make another Logan 600 million or DoFP 747 million .The best fox movies appeal to a smaller crowd .The X-men franchise not having a movie with a billion made is about as big failure a Justice League and Batman v Superman movies missing the mark.

    Pretend you are investor making a case for darker movies. What are you saying? Hey Disney lets make movies like Fox because Fox movies did so well with the fans? You going to point at the success of the dark DCEU? What case can make that Disney isn't going look at just laugh you out the room?
    I agree with you, there is no doubt the MCU has been more financially successful.
    But what about creativity?
    The XCU has been more created than the MCU.
    The XCU donít use a cookie cutter approach.
    That XCU is not limited to soft PG-13, they have the freedom go to R and have the freedom to do horror.

  3. #318
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders View Post
    I agree with you, there is no doubt the MCU has been more financially successful.
    But what about creativity?
    The XCU has been more created than the MCU.
    The XCU donít use a cookie cutter approach.
    That XCU is not limited to soft PG-13, they have the freedom go to R and have the freedom to do horror.
    Nope outside of Logan, First Class, and Deadpool Series the X-Men films are the most most homogeneous superhero films. Say what you will about the MCU, DC Films, or Raimi's Spider-Man they all have the styles of their directors while X-Men, X2, Last Stand, Origins, the Wolverine, DOFP, and Apocalypse all look interchangeable and PG-13. So really what films stifle creativity?

  4. #319
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders View Post
    I agree with you, there is no doubt the MCU has been more financially successful.
    But what about creativity?
    The XCU has been more created than the MCU.
    The XCU don’t use a cookie cutter approach.
    That XCU is not limited to soft PG-13, they have the freedom go to R and have the freedom to do horror.
    First, Marvel's "Hard R"(Netflix) is better than everything the XCU had done and multiplied by ten.

    Second, the mainstream "Marvel" film universe isn't really focusing on horror. No one needs the freedom to eat alligator if they have no plans to eat alligator.

  5. #320
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Nope outside of Logan, First Class, and Deadpool Series the X-Men films are the most most homogeneous superhero films. Say what you will about the MCU, DC Films, or Raimi's Spider-Man they all have the styles of their directors while X-Men, X2, Last Stand, Origins, the Wolverine, DOFP, and Apocalypse all look interchangeable and PG-13. So really what films stifle creativity?
    Never mind that one of the story lines is being done a second time.

    "More Creative Freedom..."?

    Come on with that noise. They have been pinned down to a few of the "Classic Coke" category of "X" stories for the entire time they have been making films. Even the "New Mutants" film that is a slight departure is still a classic "New Mutants" story.
    Last edited by numberthirty; 01-10-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  6. #321
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Would anyone like to discuss why the Fox/Disney deal might be horrible in general for the entertainment industry?

    I remember recently bringing it up to several friends and they hadn't even heard about it but just the basic headline had them shook. I mean how could this possibly be seen as a good thing aside from people getting to see their favorite characters on the big screen? If it was between destroying fascism or seeing Wolverine ride dinosaurs in the Savage land with Iron Man and Deadpool, wait scratch that IT IS between that. And the people made their choice.

    But it's funny I feel like the rollout of this news got so swept up by entertainment websites using it to drive up MCU traffic and Disney knew this and used this to their advantage.

    Who cares what the X-Men are gonna do in the MCU? Disney did this because they knew they've become a massive enough oligarchy with billions of fans that will eat up anything they put out no matter what it is even if they hate it; they knew they could get away with it because they turned Marvel and Star Wars into cash cow empires with violently devoted fanbases.

    I understand if you think I'm being dramatic or don't care. But if this is not something that scares you even hypothetically then I'm frankly disturbed
    Last edited by Elmo; 01-10-2019 at 06:27 PM.
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  7. #322
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    First, Marvel's "Hard R"(Netflix) is better than everything the XCU had done and multiplied by ten.

    Second, the mainstream "Marvel" film universe isn't really focusing on horror. No one needs the freedom to eat alligator if they have no plans to eat alligator.
    I think they mean New Mutants which hasn't had a trailer in a year and was pushed back 18 months and god knows what will happen now with the merger.

    Funny thing is for Deadpool to happen Reynolds and co had to leak the footage and take a lower budget for an R rating and Jackman took a pay cut for Logan to get an R rating. Fox went kicking and screaming to those R ratings yet get so much praise for them it's funny.

  8. #323
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Would anyone like to discuss why the Fox/Disney deal might be horrible in general for the entertainment industry?

    I remember recently bringing it up to several friends and they hadn't even heard about it but just the basic headline had them shook. I mean how could this possibly be seen as a good thing aside from people getting to see their favorite characters on the big screen? If it was between destroying fascism or seeing Wolverine ride dinosaurs in the Savage land with Iron Man and Deadpool, wait scratch that IT IS between that. And the people made their choice.

    But it's funny I feel like the rollout of this news got so swept up by entertainment websites using it to drive up MCU traffic and Disney knew this and used this to their advantage.

    Who cares what the X-Men are gonna do in the MCU? Disney did this because they knew they've become a massive enough oligarchy with billions of fans that will eat up anything they put out no matter what it is even if they hate it
    Fox was going to be sold what would had been worse was a telecommunications company like Comcast getting Fox which could use exclusive IPs to force the small number of Internet Providers we have to even less. Disney having the the lock on American blockbusters is no big deal we still have have other Studios, mid level films, the indie film industry, and film industries in every developed nation on Earth.

  9. #324
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I think they mean New Mutants which hasn't had a trailer in a year and was pushed back 18 months and god knows what will happen now with the merger.

    Funny thing is for Deadpool to happen Reynolds and co had to leak the footage and take a lower budget for an R rating and Jackman took a pay cut for Logan to get an R rating. Fox went kicking and screaming to those R ratings yet get so much praise for them it's funny.
    To say the very least. If Fox had been in the driver's seat(instead of halfway decent films being made in spite of them), neither of them would probably have made it to the editing bay.

  10. #325
    Incredible Member Raiders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Nope outside of Logan, First Class, and Deadpool Series the X-Men films are the most most homogeneous superhero films. Say what you will about the MCU, DC Films, or Raimi's Spider-Man they all have the styles of their directors while X-Men, X2, Last Stand, Origins, the Wolverine, DOFP, and Apocalypse all look interchangeable and PG-13. So really what films stifle creativity?
    But the MCU will never have a Logan, First Class and Deadpool

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    First, Marvel's "Hard R"(Netflix) is better than everything the XCU had done and multiplied by ten.

    Second, the mainstream "Marvel" film universe isn't really focusing on horror. No one needs the freedom to eat alligator if they have no plans to eat alligator.
    The Marvel’s “Hard R”(Netflix) is better than everything the MCU had done and multiplied by ten.
    Second, MCU is only focused on their cookie cutter approach.
    They are not going to be creative, they going to keep do the same thing over and over again.
    At least the XCU is trying different and new things.
    Last edited by Raiders; 01-10-2019 at 06:58 PM.

  11. #326
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Fox was going to be sold what would had been worse was a telecommunications company like Comcast getting Fox which could use exclusive IPs to force the small number of Internet Providers we have to even less. Disney having the the lock on American blockbusters is no big deal we still have have other Studios, mid level films, the indie film industry, and film industries in every developed nation on Earth.
    Comcast or Disney, mass media consolidation leads to abuse of power. It is VERY much a big deal. They control 40% of the box office, meaning they can just put out whatever movie they want no matter how awful it is and people will still watch it and they will be as powerful as ever.
    Disney's stunt with Last Jedi and threatening to pull it from theaters that didn't agree to keep screening it for months after the release led to many theaters turning down non-blockbuster films from more independent production companies. Essentially Disney erasing the competition buying up everything they see puts real artists out of business.

    Let's also not forget this isn't just about the movies; Disney has power to craft social and political landscapes, with their immense control over the marketplace they can wield their own political influence over policy makers and pretty much erase anything that goes against their hypothetical agenda as easily as they did James Gunn .

    The problem is nostalgia and believing Disney's benevolency. I believe they've been fascists from the start and have spent decades and millions of dollars and resources all to convince consumers of a lie that will lead to them buying their media and only their media. People really underestimate how influential media is

    If Al Jazeera or Blaze TV suddenly owned a huge chunk of global media I don't think anyone would be comfortable but we're just okay with Disney having this power because they can bring the X-Men into the MCU?

    Nobody high up at Disney truly cares about the X-Men and Fantastic Four but they know people love those characters and will support the merger for them and that's all they needed. It was a long game but it's like they convinced the nation to be more concerned about the lore of blockbuster movies than their gradual increase in immense power.
    Last edited by Elmo; 01-10-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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  12. #327
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders View Post
    ...


    The Marvel’s “Hard R”(Netflix) is better than everything the MCU had done and multiplied by ten.
    Second, MCU is only focused on their cookie cutter approach.
    They are not going to be creative, they going to keep do the same thing over and over again.
    At least the XCU is trying different and new things.
    Fried Chuck Taylor sandwiches would be different. That doesn't mean anyone is going to want to eat them.

    If you have to take a "Universe" that has largely based itself on two or three story lines and positively "Straight Edge" adherence to what their characters are/can be then toss an "At Least..." in to try to prop it up, that ain't much.

    Quicksilver is probably their one actual accomplishment.

  13. #328
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Uhhhh no what, it doesn't matter, Comcast or Disney, mass media consolidation leads to abuse of power. You're in denial, it is VERY much a big deal. They control 40% of the box office, meaning they can just put out whatever movie they want no matter how awful it is and people will still watch it and they will be as powerful as ever.
    Disney's stunt with Last Jedi and threatening to pull it from theaters that didn't agree to keep screening it for months after the release led to many theaters turning down non-blockbuster films from more independent production companies. Essentially Disney erasing the competition buying up everything they see puts real artists out of business.

    Let's also not forget this isn't just about the movies; Disney has power to craft social and political landscapes, with their immense control over the marketplace they can wield their own political influence over policy makers and pretty much erase anything that goes against their hypothetical agenda as easily as they did James Gunn .

    The problem is nostalgia and believing Disney's benevolency. I believe they've been fascists from the start and have spent decades and millions of dollars and resources all to convince consumers of a lie that will lead to them buying their media and only their media. People really underestimate how influential media is

    If Al Jazeera or Blaze TV suddenly owned a huge chunk of global media I don't think anyone would be comfortable but we're just okay with Disney having this power because they can bring the X-Men into the MCU?

    Nobody high up at Disney truly cares about the X-Men and Fantastic Four but they know people love those characters and will support the merger for them and that's all they needed. It was a long game but it's like they convinced the nation to be more concerned about the lore of blockbuster movies than their gradual increase in immense power.
    The examples you gave are news media outlets and yes controlling the news is a different scary thing and Disney isn't doing. About 50 % of blockbusters have been bad for decades so nothing is changing there and the amount of corporations mean nothing to me real creativity comes from the indie market always has which this doesn't effect. All blockbusters have always been subjected to corporate politics and oversight I mean there is an argument Star Wars got worst once George had all yes men. But truth is this isn't what this thread is about there is a Fox Merger Thread where this would be a better topic for.

  14. #329
    Incredible Member Raiders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Fried Chuck Taylor sandwiches would be different. That doesn't mean anyone is going to want to eat them.

    If you have to take a "Universe" that has largely based itself on two or three story lines and positively "Straight Edge" adherence to what their characters are/can be then toss an "At Least..." in to try to prop it up, that ain't much.

    Quicksilver is probably their one actual accomplishment.
    You’re missing the point, the XCU is creatively expanding by going into different genres and styles.
    Why would anyone have a problem with that?

  15. #330
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders View Post
    But the MCU will never have a Logan, First Class and Deadpool


    The Marvel’s “Hard R”(Netflix) is better than everything the MCU had done and multiplied by ten.
    Second, MCU is only focused on their cookie cutter approach.
    They are not going to be creative, they going to keep do the same thing over and over again.
    At least the XCU is trying different and new things.
    Going to say it Logan is good but over rated and Unforgiven is a better version of that kind of story. First Class is my favorite X-Men film and it was PG-13 with no blood or gore it could had been an MCU film and the MCU did a period piece the same year with First Avenger.

    The MCU has given their directors the freedom to put their own style on their films and have done Period Pieces, Heist Films, Action Films, Spy Films, Space Adventures, and the XCU keeps telling the same story over an over again. But the XCU are trying new things you say as they're doing the same movie they did in 2006 how creative.

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