Our Worlds at War

[Darkseid Is]

So I'm half way through the second volume, I haven't finished it yet and honestly... I'm pretty bored. It's such a depressing book and the Young Justice parts seem like fun and it's just weird going back and forth. Once again I haven't finished it but Superman just kills Imperiex, this big threat and all of a sudden Brainiac is now the villain?

I'd just like to know what people's thoughts were on this event.

[Kuwagaton]

It was bloated to the extreme. They did come out with a single edition version to collect the story, sure, but I don't think the story was elaborate enough to warrant more than four months across the Superman titles plus just a few related specials.

Basically the only parts of that massive story I enjoyed above average were from Schultz and Casey.

[Ascended]

I enjoyed it, but I didn't read all the tie-ins. I mostly just kept to the regular Super-titles, and one or two of the one-offs like the Green Lantern issue.

I really enjoyed the story but it definitely was a little uneven across titles and creators. Still, it was a big Super-centric Event and we don't get many of those. But I enjoyed the finale for its sheer scope and cleverness, I enjoyed a lot of the ideas that were brought in, especially the way the military and Black Hawks were handled; the inclusion of Frank Rock was great.

But in retrospect, my opinion of the story might be elevated since I think this was just about the last time the Super-books were consistently quality for the whole of the 00's. Once OW@W ended, quality fell and the few times in the decade it spiked back up were rare and short lived.

[qwertyuiop1998]

well,not bad,but boring.i mean this story actually could don't require so much issues,it's main plot just imperiex attacks→universe been threat→superman and others join together to stop imperiex,and actually villain is brainiac,and superman stop brainiac.story has logic,but honestly,dc give too much issues make this story too complicate

[Darkseid Is]

well,not bad,but boring.i mean this story actually could don't require so much issues,it's main plot just imperiex attacks→universe been threat→superman and others join together to stop imperiex,and actually villain is brainiac,and superman stop brainiac.story has logic,but honestly,dc give too much issues make this story too complicate

That's what I was thinking. It's so simple but they really tried to complicate everything.

[manofsteel1979]

It always felt like it started life as just the next big annual Supes story and it just sort of blew up.

Reading the core story and the lead up it really feels, especially now, as being a way to finish up their soft undoing of the Byrne origin of Superman and trying to start firmly returning Supes status quo to where he was pre-crisis, but became something else by the end. I mean, they pretty much killed off the Kent's, sort of was setting up in universe Supes return to his more cosmic powerlevels (which they had already started) and the ending with the double big bang felt like their way to explain the origin reversion hinted at during the Return to Krypton crossover earlier that year. It also seemed like they were also setting up a hackneyed way for them to undo Lois and Clark by having Lois upset with Clark by not being able to save her dad. Obviously something changed because within 6 months all the major status quo changes were largely swept under the rug or outright retconned.

I agree with Ascended. I still find it an enjoyable if bloated story and that whole Loeb/Kelly/Shultze era, in spite of some issues was the last time until the last couple years where the Superman books were consistently good reads.

[Kuwagaton]

Although it still had the triangle numbers mostly, I think 2000-2003 is pretty easily called its own era. I mean it all seemed to center around OW@W with Loeb sowing the seeds right from the beginning. They had this pre-crisis (what Loeb grew up with, at least) flavor to blend with an extra cartoony TAS. From the general style of Kano to the art deco (B13) Metropolis, to the prominence of Darkseid and then to probably the biggest indicator, the Supergirl David pulled directly from the show.

A good idea and I can't say it was boring. They put a lot of the things that made Death and Return such a hit into play and then added to it considerably. But it definitely wasn't another team with a tenured ace editor working with them through years to make them cohesive before they even got into all that, and having it utterly smash the rest of the DCU was a bit too far.

I've been thinking about this a bit and I want to re read it, but that is a tall order. Darkseid_Is, how far are you and do you have any questions?

[manofsteel1979]

Although it still had the triangle numbers mostly, I think 2000-2003 is pretty easily called its own era. I mean it all seemed to center around OW@W with Loeb sowing the seeds right from the beginning. They had this pre-crisis (what Loeb grew up with, at least) flavor to blend with an extra cartoony TAS. From the general style of Kano to the art deco (B13) Metropolis, to the prominence of Darkseid and then to probably the biggest indicator, the Supergirl David pulled directly from the show.

A good idea and I can't say it was boring. They put a lot of the things that made Death and Return such a hit into play and then added to it considerably. But it definitely wasn't another team with a tenured ace editor working with them through years to make them cohesive before they even got into all that, and having it utterly smash the rest of the DCU was a bit too far.

I've been thinking about this a bit and I want to re read it, but that is a tall order. Darkseid_Is, how far are you and do you have any questions?

The first three months of the Loeb/Kelly era was still a continuation of what came directly prior, although there was a definite tonal change and some tying up of a few loose ends. The Superman Y2K special was the big shift and change and then Superman #154 with the Ed McGuiness art was a radical shock to the system visually. That whole period between the end of King of the World/Dominus and Superman#151 was a really weird time where there was literally no clear direction and it was basically all filler. Now of course we all know why (the whole Superman Now/2000 fiasco).

I really remember that time from late 1999 to Summer 2001 as a really exciting time as a reader of the books, probably the most exciting things had been since the Death and Reign era. I was a huge fan of the triangle era and those teams, but a change was needed and while the Loeb/Kelly era is pretty much a footnote now (aside from President Luthor which is about the only bit of continuity that's still firmly Canon), it was a ride through OWAW.

[Darkseid Is]

I've been thinking about this a bit and I want to re read it, but that is a tall order. Darkseid_Is, how far are you and do you have any questions?

I'm almost finished with it. I think I'm on a Wonder Woman issue that's towards the end. Don't get me wrong, I love Brainiac but it felt weird that Imperiex is killed right at the beginning of the second book, after they set up all this stuff about how powerful he is. Maybe he comes back?

[qwertyuiop1998]

OWAW is definitely a good idea,but in my opnion is it have too much irrelative issues,i mean like nightwing issue if you skip that issue,you actually could find won't have problem to understand OWAW main story,or like batman issue mentioned doomsday project,but doomsday in this story only just appearance a few scans and then destroyed by imperie.......i personally think if it could give brainiac more relative issues and dislodge some comparison less important issues,it's will be better,brainiac at the end of story appearance is just too suddenly,previous plot relative about him just few issues,green lantern issue just mentioned he has some plan,and young justice just mentioned he had waging battle against imperiex.if dc could give some issues to explain brainiac plan and portray him,this should be better,a lot scans and context have just describe imperiex's powerful,which though at first is interesting but when it's mentioned in too much issues,i grandually find boring(though this maybe because i read the story in one sitting.......)

[Darkseid Is]

OWAW is definitely a good idea,but in my opnion is it have too much irrelative issues,i mean like nightwing issue if you skip that issue,you actually could find won't have problem to understand OWAW main story,or like batman issue mentioned doomsday project,but doomsday in this story only just appearance a few scans and then destroyed by imperie.......i personally think if it could give brainiac more relative issues and dislodge some comparison less important issues,it's will be better,brainiac at the end of story appearance is just too suddenly,previous plot relative about him just few issues,green lantern issue just mentioned he has some plan,and young justice just mentioned he had waging battle against imperiex.if dc could give some issues to explain brainiac plan and portray him,this should be better,a lot scans and context have just describe imperiex's powerful,which though at first is interesting but when it's mentioned in too much issues,i grandually find boring(though this maybe because i read the story in one sitting.......)

Okay, I just finished the book.

I don't think in the books I have (which are volumes 1 and 2) there is a Nightwing or a Batman issue so they probably left them out of the collected editions and they're probably in later collected editions or something.

I really liked the wrap up story where Superman and Wonder Woman go to all the fallen heroes funerals. During the war, a lot of the deaths seemed like really quick (besides Hippolyta who is given an entire Wonder Woman issue but that gets into one of my problems with the entire book). It was nice to see Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and Wildcat thinking back about Hippolyta and seeing Young Justice return, putting a smile on ol' grumpy Bats' face.

I think I found my biggest problem with the story and why I didn't really enjoy it. Possibly if I re-read it again in a few years I may like it more since I know what's going to happen and it wont seem as all over the place (much like Final Crisis. Reading it as it came out I felt disappointed, reading it collected in one or two sittings with the Superman Beyond books I hadn't read initially, I really enjoyed it) There's too much back and forth with the storytelling. Back and forth with tons of different characters is fine, but the back and forth in the storytelling was really a momentum killer for me. In a series like Return of Superman or Knightfall, it's a bunch of different writers and artists telling a story but the story is going forward forward forward. In Our Worlds at War, there are things that will happen in an issue, then the next issue we'll be given backstory on that thing that happened.

I'll try to make sense of this and this is coming from the top of my head so if I'm wrong please correct me. There's an issue where Hippolyta dies, Steel returns in the Imperiex suit thingy, and Superman flies off into the sun to get more powerful. Great cliffhanger. I want to see what happens next but the next issue is a Wonder Woman book that gets deeper into Hippolyta dying and all that. I mean she deserves an issue to herself where she dies but I already know Hippolyta dies and I want to see what happens next. It feels like stop and start. Like there are things that happen in two different books and it's just a type of storytelling I don't like. There's even a Wonder Woman issue that literally says "The War is Over" and you read the issue before the war is actually over in the trade because it's happening simultaneously.

[Kuwagaton]

The first three months of the Loeb/Kelly era was still a continuation of what came directly prior, although there was a definite tonal change and some tying up of a few loose ends. The Superman Y2K special was the big shift and change and then Superman #154 with the Ed McGuiness art was a radical shock to the system visually. That whole period between the end of King of the World/Dominus and Superman#151 was a really weird time where there was literally no clear direction and it was basically all filler. Now of course we all know why (the whole Superman Now/2000 fiasco).

I thought it was a pretty clean break. Between the KotW fallout and Loeb there was the Brainiac arc and all the titles had the Strange Visitor filler before the new jump on points. "We're Back!" jumped immediately into Mongul and the Imperiex Probe, which means Loeb was building up to the event as soon as he came on. The Kelly stuff with Encantadora was essentially the same and unrelated to what Millar and Immonen were doing. Those two kept up the old guard with turning Obsession into Mrs. Superman but all their stuff aside from Dominus was pretty standalone. Schultz stayed doing his thing but he was pretty new to the staff anyway.

All that stuff I actually re read around the Death of New 52 Superman and I stopped at Return to Krypton, but I can remember seeing so much seeding for the event.

I'm almost finished with it. I think I'm on a Wonder Woman issue that's towards the end. Don't get me wrong, I love Brainiac but it felt weird that Imperiex is killed right at the beginning of the second book, after they set up all this stuff about how powerful he is. Maybe he comes back?

It's a pretty cool finale coming up. The core titles really did a lot even though the stories weren't tightly connected. It feels like a prototype for modern events except it required triangle style reading of a main title that wasn't extremely popular.

[theoneandonly]

darkseids role somehow feels shoehorned and he often is shown being at a disadvantage in the storyline though he played a important role at various times. it firmly seems to reduce him to being a super man level villain when previously he was shown to be much above him during the legends tie in although Superman did have him at a disadvantage in the fight later on when he regains his right mind but still it was better than the humiliating beating Superman delivered later on to free steel from his clutches. the storyline also made a absurd connection between apokolips and darkseids power instead of him deriving his power from the source. the storyline also had the absurd preamble of Superman being trained by mongul in basics which he must have mastered long ago and later on Luthor also got a boost as being a president who has successfully led his forces to war in a universal conflict.

[Darkseid Is]

darkseids role somehow feels shoehorned and he often is shown being at a disadvantage in the storyline though he played a important role at various times. it firmly seems to reduce him to being a super man level villain when previously he was shown to be much above him during the legends tie in although Superman did have him at a disadvantage in the fight later on when he regains his right mind but still it was better than the humiliating beating Superman delivered later on to free steel from his clutches. the storyline also made a absurd connection between apokolips and darkseids power instead of him deriving his power from the source. the storyline also had the absurd preamble of Superman being trained by mongul in basics which he must have mastered long ago and later on Luthor also got a boost as being a president who has successfully led his forces to war in a universal conflict.

I didn't mind the Darkseid stuff. Power levels are something that always fluctuates with him for each story and I get that. When you get characters like that who are really powerful you have to sort of make them fit into the story or not have them in the story at all and I'd rather have him in the story because I just really like Darksied. As long as he's in character and I felt he was. It didn't feel like when Doomsday fought Darkseid and Darkseid was there just to make Doomsday look more badass. Even that is only a minor annoyance.

[Kuwagaton]

The books for years up to that point had been suggesting that Darkseid is more or less as powerful as Superman. And there was Hunter Prey, as mentioned above.

I missed your post earlier D_I, and that sounds about right trade or no trade. The older events that drew on Superman had others on the fringe, so inconsistencies in plot or timing were pretty easy to overlook.