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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Default Superman’s strength and abilities under red sun radiation

    I really dislike when Superman is shown to instantly become as weak as a regular human under red sun radiation. Batman or Lex will deploy a devise that produces red sun radiation and suddenly Supes is completely powerless. So many writers seem to forget that Superman’s Kryptonian physiology would still give him some super strength and durability. Krypton was said to have much stronger gravity and a harsher atmosphere than earth, so Kryptonians have much more dense bones, skin, and muscles to compensate. Superman would still be a tank even without yellow sun radiation. Probably not Golden Age or “tee shirt and jeans” Superman levels since that version had still been absorbing yellow sun rads for 20 or so years, but way stronger than an average human. It’s the John Carter effect.

    Have their been any recent issues where this was brought up? I recall an issue of Superman/Batman from a few years back where they had to go to Kandor. Batman needed a reinforced suit to compensate for the increased gravity.

  2. #2
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    The red sun stuff started with Supergirl's introduction and the need to explain why her people living on a small asteroid sized piece of Krypton wouldn't have developed Superman's powers. Suddenly it became that the "John Carter" effect only became a thing under yellow suns. Superman would lose his muscle powers under Kryptonian gravity still- yellow sun or not. But now even under lighter gravity apparently he didn't gain any powers unless he was under a yellow star. Never made complete sense, but they needed some reason to explain why Argo City didn't have a population of Superpeople.

    I'm sure after that it became a convenient way to depower Superman without the drawbacks of kryptonite. Superman just became a regular Joe under a red sun, not a dying writhing in pain useless character. Plus like magic it gave the writers a little variety in weakening him. I can see the appeal of having another tool in the creative belt.

    But I agree with you that the Silver/Bronze use of red solar rays never made sense and the re-introduction Post-Crisis of weaponry that used it should never have happened. Having Clark unable to recharge somewhere with just red solar rays, fine. Hit him on Earth with a red laser- no.

  3. #3
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    If i got it correctly, the radiation from a red star doesn't alter Superman, it brings him to his original state because Krypton was orbiting Rao, a red giant. It's the yellow (or rather the white) star radiation that alters him.

  4. #4
    Kon93
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    Well the sideways annual had the new 52 superman say this



    So maybe "a" superman's powers work like this,not that dumb,red light equals nothing,solar flare equals nothing crap.

    Oh and dont forget he shouldn't just be John Carter like,but also have vision abilities because of the conditions on krypton

  5. #5
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    I think that given his natural dense molecular structure and other physiological differences from humans,on Earth or a planet with similar gravity he should be at or just shy of his Action #1 (either version). I.E. mostly powers that originate from his muscles. Super strength ( about that of 20 men), faster than normal speed, super leaping and able to withstand anything less than a bursting shell from injuring him. The yellow sunlight and his ability for absorbing and metabolizing it in various ways only enhances those powers. A telekinetic aura surrounds his body which augments his strength to mountain toppling levels. It allows him to partially access the speed force to move supersonically. It makes his already impervious skin nearly completely invulnerable.It allows him to move his body with his mind giving him the ability to fly. It augments his already keen sight and hearing beyond what should be possible.

    In other words, the yellow sunlight activates psionic capabilities that augment what is already there. It's the " secret sauce" that allows him to be beyond super.

    Red Solar energy wouldn't immediately incapacitate him. His higher end abilities would dwindle as his solar stores dissipate. ultimately depending on the native gravity and atmosphere of what ever planetary body he would be on would determine whether he would still be Action Comics #1 levels, reduced to something closer to a normal human,or something else entirely.

    Same would apply to Green K. It shouldn't make him a complete weakling and lose all his powers. It would just be akin to a normal human being exposed to low level plutonium.it would hurt like hell and eventually would die from the exposure to radiation.

    At least that's how I see Supes powers working if I were writing him. 😀
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 11-12-2018 at 04:28 PM.
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  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I've always liked the idea that under long enough red sun exposure, Superman would still revert to Golden Age power levels, rather than going "full Batman", depending on the planet's gravity. This has, to the best of my knowledge, never been done reliably, if at all.
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  7. #7
    Mighty Member Incognito's Avatar
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    I prefer the idea that under a red sun, he still has his powers but once he keeps using his energy reserves it slowly diminishes, he is like a phone without a battery charger which would send him to his base levels.

    Under a Red Sun, he should still be stronger and faster than a normal human since he was from a planet which has a much heavier gravity than Earth's, he should be strong enough to lift up cars to trucks and large boulders. Fast enough to catch bullets and deflect/dodge/react to upcoming attacks and durable enough to sustain numerous blows of internal or external assaults. Superman while in the Red Sun can leap high buildings in a single bound reflecting his golden age days.

    Under a Yellow sun, his native abilities increased to top-tier superhuman levels, he is strong enough to lift and hold battleships and large buildings, run fast enough to almost catch up with The Flash, withstand an explosion, flight and all of his power-set enhanced tremendously to immense levels.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Red Son was guilty of completely depowering Supes with red sun radiation in order to make Batman look good.


  9. #9
    Kon93
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    Anything less than golden age levels is bull$h!t...period

    And I'm a big fan of the bio aura,not a consciously controlled TK field,that's SB,but yeah a yellow sun powered aura that amps him to demi God level

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I like the idea of Kryptonians just being naturally stronger and faster than humans due to biology. They come from a different environment than we do and they are way more advanced than we are. So this makes a bit of sense. So in a way, he would always have "powers" just not necessarily super-powers. Even if he isn't strong enough to lift a car over his head his first day on Earth or something he could still fall out of a tree, say, and not get hurt. So Clark would always be stronger than everyone else even if he didn't have powers right away. This raises another question: How long must he absorb yellow solar radiation before he develops super powers?
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  11. #11
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I like the idea of Kryptonians just being naturally stronger and faster than humans due to biology. They come from a different environment than we do and they are way more advanced than we are. So this makes a bit of sense. So in a way, he would always have "powers" just not necessarily super-powers. Even if he isn't strong enough to lift a car over his head his first day on Earth or something he could still fall out of a tree, say, and not get hurt. So Clark would always be stronger than everyone else even if he didn't have powers right away. This raises another question: How long must he absorb yellow solar radiation before he develops super powers?
    I'd say it be more reliant on his maturation process. As he gets into late adolescence his cells gain the ability to process the solar radiation he's been storing all his life to that point. That's when I would have his top end powers start to manifest. His super keen natural Kryptonian sight and hearing becomes superhearing and x-ray vision. His latent resistance to injury becomes outright invulnerability. He's able to fly. He goes from being able to lift his father's truck off the ground high enough with one hand so Pa can change a flat tire to being able to toss said truck into orbit.

    That would explain how we can go from Action Comics #1 power levels to in fairly short order to Byrne levels to silver age levels in just a few years.It would open up the idea that he gets more powerful as he ages. I liked the idea from Kingdom Come that Superman eventually gains immunity to Kryptonite. Perhaps eventually the same could apply to Red Solar weakness.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 11-13-2018 at 12:30 PM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
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  12. #12
    Kon93
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    Poll idea,
    1 have powers instantly as soon as under a yellow sun

    2 as he grows from puberty on, grows to full power

    3 keeps getting more powerful as he ages

    4 as he ages his powers grow weaker

    What do you think?

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kon93 View Post
    Poll idea,
    1 have powers instantly as soon as under a yellow sun

    2 as he grows from puberty on, grows to full power

    3 keeps getting more powerful as he ages

    4 as he ages his powers grow weaker

    What do you think?
    I love this but I'd add a few more categories.

    5. Some powers instantly and develop others later

    6. Natural super-strength that's enhanced by a yellow sun
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  14. #14
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    It's always a little odd to me that this firmly entrenched idea introduced by Jerry Seigel and Mort Weisinger is fought against ardently around here. For all the people who aren't into Superman and suppose he's a wimpy dip without his powers and needs them in some measure to be competent (not helped by the popularity Superman II at all) the comics refute that notion time and again. But then there are a reasonable amount of fans who don't like him to be able to get by and bust heads while totally unpowered. Which is the point because a guy with only a little bit of super powers is still just a guy with super powers. Not like Batman, eating slapjacks from no name goons or getting knocked out by clowns while completely in his element. If Superman is to be competent without his powers, why does he need to have his powers at all times?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    It's always a little odd to me that this firmly entrenched idea introduced by Jerry Seigel and Mort Weisinger is fought against ardently around here. For all the people who aren't into Superman and suppose he's a wimpy dip without his powers and needs them in some measure to be competent (not helped by the popularity Superman II at all) the comics refute that notion time and again. But then there are a reasonable amount of fans who don't like him to be able to get by and bust heads while totally unpowered. Which is the point because a guy with only a little bit of super powers is still just a guy with super powers. Not like Batman, eating slapjacks from no name goons or getting knocked out by clowns while completely in his element. If Superman is to be competent without his powers, why does he need to have his powers at all times?
    I don't want a Superman who is super on Krypton. If anything I'd assume that Clark is subpar as far as Kryptonians go. They grow up in an environment that pushes them to use their abilities 24/7 while Superman rarely does things that cause him to break a sweat. So if somehow Superman is in the situation where he is totally human, I expect him to be at a loss to do basic things because he is both used to holding so far back due to his powers (world of cardboard) and that he has no experience with regular effort (is this what sweating feels like?).

    On the other hand, I hate the idea of depowering characters under a lot of conditions. For example, to me J'onn Jonzz is a Martian, Aquaman is a separate race of homo-sapiens, and Barry Allen is a metahuman. So while I can see it being possible to deactivate whatever gives Barry his powers with the same ease that he gained them, taking away J'onn or Arthur's powers is akin to turning a chimp and a lion into housecats. You aren't taking human genes and restoring them to factory settings you are changing non-human genes into human ones..

    And by the same logic I have never liked the idea that Superman is treated as just a human with the ability to absorb and channel solar energy. I prefer that his powers be the result of having a body that is physically different, so that no matter where you are in the universe Kryptonians and humans are always different at a baseline level of power.

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