Who can resist The One Ring?

[The Drunkard Kid]

Food.

/limit

He already lives on the planet that had the best good in his universe, had a wide that cooks Saiyajin portions, is close friends with the richest person in the world who had probably the best chefs in the universe who cook in Saiyajin portions. And, if all else fails, there's always the Dragonballs.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

He already lives on the planet that had the best good in his universe, had a wide that cooks Saiyajin portions, is close friends with the richest person in the world who had probably the best chefs in the universe who cook in Saiyajin portions. And, if all else fails, there's always the Dragonballs.

This is debatable.

[Sharpandpointies]

I tend to agree that the One Ring is a bad "character" for Rumbles. Because of the greatness of Tolkien's world and his writing, or for whatever reasons, people tend to give the One Ring feats it simply does not have. There is some validity to this as even Gandalf says it would corrupt him and quickly. But Gandalf also, to the best of my knowledge, has zero feats of resisting mental manipulation other than the Ring itself exerting a temptation. Another problem is that no one will define precisely how the Ring works. It plays on people's desires, including good desires. That's the gun. But how does it get into their minds or souls and deliver the bullets? Telepathy? Magic? Will power?

Actually, Gandalf has feats for resisting such. He utterly laughed off (like literally 'laughed off') Saruman's attempt to manipulate him with his empowered 'Voice', when Saruman easily did so to everyone around him. Including hobbits. And Aragorn, who fought an extended mental contest with Sauron through the palantír (which isn't as impressive, as Aragorn managed to pull a win with that one due to being the rightful owner of the Middle Earth AT&T network, but he still needed to have some stuff going into that tussle to hang in there against a spiritual being who mentally commands armies). Then there's Galadriel, who has feats and such, and still wouldn't dare touch the Ring.

So it kind of turns into: Well, Professor X can't resist because it's not telepathy and so his mind shield won't help.

Okay, Dr. Strange then. No it's not magic so magic defenses won't help.

Here's where it gets iffy. I'm fine with serious mental defenses working against it, so long as they're also supposed to work against stuff like emotion control, that sort of thing. The Ring clearly makes contact in specific ways. If mental defenses stand off 'making of contact', then they're going to work (so long as the person with them is more powerful than Sauron, who is no chump).

But that person needs to keep those defenses up ALL THE TIME, is the point. And they have to be proof against insidious, subtle contact and the like. I believe lesser telepaths have wormed their way into Xavier's mind while he slept, but I'm not 100% certain on that. Strange, himself, has had issues with weaker beings getting into his head while he was sleeping as well (this I know for a fact, and can point to at least one instance) with the idea not of controlling him, but of manipulating him (and they did).

So, someone who has feats of will power that put Gandalf to shame. Noooo, because will power makes you even moooore vulnerable.

It's not about control. It's about finding someone's weak points and feeding them what they think they want/need.

...I'm not sure about 'willpower making people more vulnerable', or why. Where'd that come from?

Further comments...

(Shout out to Sharp :-) ):

Anomander Rake. Yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing that happens every time: Rake shows up when I start spouting Malazan stuff. But, given his feats carrying around Dragnipur for half a million years, the Ring would feel like a spa weekend in Bora Bora for the guy. Of course, he's massively, ridiculously more powerful than Sauron, not to mention massively older, smarter and wiser, so really, none of this is a surprise.

Totally cool with this. Rake is basically the Ring's worst nightmare.

Gruntle. Gruntle is an ordinary caravan guard who is made, against his will, into the avatar/religious totem of a god of war. Who Gruntle then proceeds to tell to f&@£ right the hell off, and continues doing precisely what he wants. He's got no special reason for his resistance, outside of "having lived through the absolute shitstorm of a life heroes in Erikson's books often must endure" It's the kind of thing that, for me, would flummox the Ring: it would be like "ah, you want such and such, look at what I show you," expecting positive results, only to then have to watch while the target does EXACTLY the opposite, for no understandable reason.

I'm iffy on this. Gruntle has needs, desires, and emotions that actively drive him. That's made pretty clear in the books. Without any special resistance to the Ring, I'm really iffy on him shrugging it off.

Kruppe would have been a better choice, I think.

[big_adventure]

I'm iffy on this. Gruntle has needs, desires, and emotions that actively drive him. That's made pretty clear in the books. Without any special resistance to the Ring, I'm really iffy on him shrugging it off.

Kruppe would have been a better choice, I think.

Kruppe just wouldn't have been fair. The dude shrugs elder gods and such for fun, or if there is a pastry in it for him.

And yeah, I totally get what you are saying, I'm just saying that the ring's default "offer to help make you better" plan in return for "nudge nudge" seems EXTREMELY poorly suited against a guy who resists basically that because "don't tell me what I have to do." Not that the ring couldn't find another way to manipulate, just that he'd probably be able to resist for a while as the ring tries to figure out how he's going to get through to him.

[Sharpandpointies]

Kruppe just wouldn't have been fair. The dude shrugs elder gods and such for fun, or if there is a pastry in it for him.

Absolutely.

And yeah, I totally get what you are saying, I'm just saying that the ring's default "offer to help make you better" plan in return for "nudge nudge" seems EXTREMELY poorly suited against a guy who resists basically that because "don't tell me what I have to do." Not that the ring couldn't find another way to manipulate, just that he'd probably be able to resist for a while as the ring tries to figure out how he's going to get through to him.

One of the things about the Ring is its subtlety. The business where Sam figures out the Ring is basically trying to manipulate him, that's one case in an entire series of 'that's not how it works'.

It gets one through the things that one wants, not by beating one over the head with a telepathically controlling sledgehammer, if that makes sense. ^_^

Also, there's no 'guiding intelligence' behind the Ring. It doesn't think, it doesn't have to figure things out about people. It just does its thing. Gruntle has issues. Especially when it comes to wreaking hell on people he figures are doing nasty crap, or who have hurt people for whom he cares. He also has issues about protecting the people about whom he cares. That's where the Ring gets him, especially because he doesn't have any specific resistance.

The Ring doesn't really give a 'in return for' -- no deals made, nothing like that. It's just...you know, in this situation it would be REALLY handy for him to use it, and whoa, look, it happened to get on his finger, and it WAS really useful and yeah, he'll never use it again because he knows full well what it is and how bad it is, nosirree...

...but you know, the next time Stonny gets in serious trouble, he might just reach for it because hey, it's Stonny and Gruntle will 'take the chance'.

Just to note: I'd not be too sanguine about Trull's chances, either. And I freaking adore Trull, as you know. But setting any bias aside....

1. Trull doesn't have any demonstrated resistance against mental stuff;
2. He's certainly not more powerful than Sauron, though Sauron would do well not to get within spear's reach of him;
3. Trull, for all of his self-sacrifice, has wants, desires, and occasionally explodes into a fury when he's driven to the edge of his ability to cope with the evil crap people do.

Trull's going to last longer, of course, than someone with a headful of selfishness or the like, but I don't feel he's the kind of guy who can sit with the Ring and just ignore it completely.

[big_adventure]

One of the things about the Ring is its subtlety. The business where Sam figures out the Ring is basically trying to manipulate him, that's one case in an entire series of 'that's not how it works'.

It gets one through the things that one wants, not by beating one over the head with a telepathically controlling sledgehammer, if that makes sense. ^_^

Also, there's no 'guiding intelligence' behind the Ring. It doesn't think, it doesn't have to figure things out about people. It just does its thing. Gruntle has issues. Especially when it comes to wreaking hell on people he figures are doing nasty crap, or who have hurt people for whom he cares. He also has issues about protecting the people about whom he cares. That's where the Ring gets him, especially because he doesn't have any specific resistance.

The Ring doesn't really give a 'in return for' -- no deals made, nothing like that. It's just...you know, in this situation it would be REALLY handy for him to use it, and whoa, look, it happened to get on his finger, and it WAS really useful and yeah, he'll never use it again because he knows full well what it is and how bad it is, nosirree...

...but you know, the next time Stonny gets in serious trouble, he might just reach for it because hey, it's Stonny and Gruntle will 'take the chance'.

Just to note: I'd not be too sanguine about Trull's chances, either. And I freaking adore Trull, as you know. But setting any bias aside....

1. Trull doesn't have any demonstrated resistance against mental stuff;
2. He's certainly not more powerful than Sauron, though Sauron would do well not to get within spear's reach of him;
3. Trull, for all of his self-sacrifice, has wants, desires, and occasionally explodes into a fury when he's driven to the edge of his ability to cope with the evil crap people do.

Trull's going to last longer, of course, than someone with a headful of selfishness or the like, but I don't feel he's the kind of guy who can sit with the Ring and just ignore it completely.

For Gruntle, yeah, point conceded.

And sure, for Trull, I can see it as well, especially as Trull basically did stuff that he knew he shouldn't have done for a very, very long time.

Here's another: Tool might fall, while being an interesting case study. He's older than Sauron, more experienced, might be more powerful than Sauron (and again, Sauron definitely doesn't want to get close to the guy, and unlike with Trull, he can't STOP Tool from getting close to him), but he's both got "feats" for being manipulated AND has some serious buttons to push (Kilava, anyone? No? How about "someone might be a better fighter than you are.").

Obviously idem for any of the Seguleh - that "I'll make you a better fighter" image would work on any except for... nope, any.

Dassem? Before separating from Hood, he'd actually be perfect for a human at resisting the ring - he's stupidly strong willed, already better than anyone he's ever encountered at combat, totally dedicated to serving his current master, and doesn't ever want or accept help at doing so. But after the split? Oh, man, he'd fall in seconds.

Tayschrenn on the one hand is totally fine with using anything to increase his power or knowledge, but on the other, is definitely too strong for Sauron, who, just like everyone outside of 3 or 4 characters in Malazan, would hide himself in a pool of his own excrement to avoid drawing Tay's attention, and on top of that he is totally capable of whipping up some kind of containment tool for the ring that yields it's powers while blocking all of the control.

Here's a fun one: Iskarel Pust. :-) Having the Ring might well make him more sane and balanced.

[Coin Biter]

Kruppe would be a good choice for resisting the One Ring... and in a vote for the most annoying fantasy fiction character of all time That said there’d be a number of Malazan characters no doubt who could resist the One.

It’s an interesting thought... characters from other famous fantasy franchises who might resist. Let’s consider some of them:

Asoiaf. Nobody, I’d assume. Although you could make a case for the Faceless Men. If they have truly moved beyond any notion of personal identity, would the Ring be anything to them?

Earthsea. Archmage Sparrowhawk does not seem even mildly tempted in The Farthest Shore, unlike most of the other men of magic. He would no doubt put up an impressive resistance.

First Law. Where practically everyone would murder each other to obtain the Ring within the first few paragraphs.

Belgariad. I doubt if many of the characters would be able to resist; Garion seems particularly vulnerable to mental manipulation. That said, the Orb of Aldur is so preposterously powerful that the One Ring is fairly low wattage in comparison. In addition, the Prophecy tells everyone pretty much everything they have to do. The Ring would probably end up being seized by a random villain and then get melted by the Orb, after some fairly desultory banter between Silk and Belgarath.

Wheel of Time. This is a universe replete with mind influencing and altering characters, and other manipulative forces, such as Mashadar, many of which have more blatant effects than the One Ring. One can imagine it ending up in the hands of someone like Padan Fain, while the Forsaken scheme to possess it to give themselves an edge (possibly not Ishamael, whose aims are different). Although again this is a world full of people with some ridiculously vast powers, it would probably wreak havoc, as everyone is a bit power hungry and status obsessed or simply unbalanced, and immortality would be perceived as a rich prize.

Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. The battle of the worlds of powerful Rings that the protagonists don’t really know how to, or even want to, use Covenant, despite his spectacularly terrible personal character, might actually stand a good chance of coveting the ring a bit less than most, as for most of the series he does not want to take any action, positive or negative. Lord Mhoram might resist for a while.

[big_adventure]

Interesting:

Wheel of Time: If the Ring managed to wind up in the hands of one of the Foresaken, or ANY Darkfriend really, it would be instantly used. I doubt that it could really strongly influence one of the Forsaken, however: they are too powerful and too capable with mind screwery themselves. Any of the Aes Sedai, Forsaken, Black Ajah, Dreadlords/Black Tower can likely resist it exactly how they protect their dreams and resist the Dark One's (or the forsakens') touch there. If it got to Rand in the heart of his troubles and despair, it could make a nuisance, though if it got to him in Memory of Light timeframe, he'd just ignore it. The most likely result, however, is that it gets locked deep in an unknown vault in the White Tower or Tear or what have you long before the time of the tale being told, and just sits there with nobody to manipulate for thousands of years, with a cuendillar chain holding it in place.

Covenant: This again might depend on WHEN it got to him. In most cases, he'd probably resist it pretty well for a while, though it's not like he's got some iron will against being manipulated. The Bloodguard / Haruchai / Masters are another interesting case study. I'd love to say that the Bloodguard would resist it, but they have feats for NOT resisting that exact same temptation, three of them being seduced by a weapon of darkness already.

Belgariad/Malloreon: Garion is kind of a tool, but OTOH, he's a tool with a crap ton of power, and a crap ton more with his buddy the orb in hand. Belgarath, Beldin or Polgara should be able to resist it long enough to get rid of it to some extent just fine. Durnik for a while as well: he's a grown up, eventually significantly more powerful Samwise, in any case.

Elenium/Tamuli: Sparhawk, obviously, ought to be able to deal with this just fine, given that he's effectively the avatar of a SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful object/being/whathaveyou than the ring. It might advance the story quite a bit, really, if Sparhawk winds up with the ring on chapter 3 of book 1: I imagine that Bhelliom would Anahaka him significantly earlier, and he can just wave the problem away with a gesture. Sparhawk and Co. also have a pet goddess to call upon who can do a decent job manipulating her own self, and can probably aid them in fighting the ring, or at worst, just bringing out a pretty, magically-sealed box, dropping the ring into it, and then chucking it into deepest part of the ocean.

Shannara: I don't really see any of these guys shrugging the ring forever. Allanon probably does pretty well, but eventually would still get twisted. Most of the others lack his fortitude, and wouldn't last nearly as long.

[Powerboy]

Actually, Gandalf has feats for resisting such. He utterly laughed off (like literally 'laughed off') Saruman's attempt to manipulate him with his empowered 'Voice', when Saruman easily did so to everyone around him. Including hobbits. And Aragorn, who fought an extended mental contest with Sauron through the palantír (which isn't as impressive, as Aragorn managed to pull a win with that one due to being the rightful owner of the Middle Earth AT&T network, but he still needed to have some stuff going into that tussle to hang in there against a spiritual being who mentally commands armies). Then there's Galadriel, who has feats and such, and still wouldn't dare touch the Ring.

Looking at it that way, it comes down to people stronger willed or with better defenses than Gandalf and company may be able to resist the Ring or, at least, the Ring has implied feats of being able to overcome Gandalf and people on his level.

Here's where it gets iffy. I'm fine with serious mental defenses working against it, so long as they're also supposed to work against stuff like emotion control, that sort of thing. The Ring clearly makes contact in specific ways. If mental defenses stand off 'making of contact', then they're going to work (so long as the person with them is more powerful than Sauron, who is no chump).

But that person needs to keep those defenses up ALL THE TIME, is the point. And they have to be proof against insidious, subtle contact and the like. I believe lesser telepaths have wormed their way into Xavier's mind while he slept, but I'm not 100% certain on that. Strange, himself, has had issues with weaker beings getting into his head while he was sleeping as well (this I know for a fact, and can point to at least one instance) with the idea not of controlling him, but of manipulating him (and they did).

It's not about control. It's about finding someone's weak points and feeding them what they think they want/need.

...I'm not sure about 'willpower making people more vulnerable', or why. Where'd that come from?

If we're working from the viewpoint that Sauron's feats are the Ring's feats, that creates a different situation. It's hard to judge because it becomes a question of things like how powerful of a resistance does Gandalf or Frodo have compared to, say, Dr. Strange. How powerful are beings who have subtly influenced Strange compared to Sauron or the Ring. As you said, the issue with some characters like Strange isn't so much how powerful his resistance is but can he maintain them all the time.

The remark about will power making one more vulnerable was a mis-statement. I meant to imply that being more powerful, having more potential, seems to be argued as something that makes one more vulnerable. But that may be a Khan situation. Superior ability breeds superior ambition for better or worse.

[Sharpandpointies]

Looking at it that way, it comes down to people stronger willed or with better defenses than Gandalf and company may be able to resist the Ring or, at least, the Ring has implied feats of being able to overcome Gandalf and people on his level.

Sure, if you want to look at it that way. Though 'willpower' assumes constant resistance and fighting against impulses. How does willpower do when something is gnawing away at one while one sleeps?

Just a thought for consideration.

Regarding viewing the Ring's feats as Sauron's. I don't think it's a big stretch to say that 'If you want to resist the Ring by dint of power and making barriers against it, you need to be more powerful than Sauron.' Where's the barometer for that? Gandalf. Here's how it breaks down.

1. Gandalf the White basically stated he was more powerful than anything else on Middle Earth save for Sauron, and there's plenty to figure that he's not just having an ego-trip;
2. Even as Gandalf the Grey, he was pretty 'up there' - the only people stronger would have been Galadriel, Saruman, and potentially Elrond but that's kind of *wiggles hand*;
3. Either way, Gandalf would have lost against Sauron;
4. Gandalf was 100% sure he would have failed against the Ring's corruption, as would have Galadriel and the others;
5. Tolkien is pretty specific in stating that while Gandalf the White could have mastered the Ring's POWER, and used it against its wielder, he still would have been corrupted and become a tyrant.

So...I'm okay with the idea that 'Being stronger than Sauron based on Power = the kind of power one needs to throw up barriers against the Ring', because it does look like there's some equivalence there (and that, really, is all we have with which to work, here).

Mileage, it doth vary.

If we're working from the viewpoint that Sauron's feats are the Ring's feats, that creates a different situation. It's hard to judge because it becomes a question of things like how powerful of a resistance does Gandalf or Frodo have compared to, say, Dr. Strange. How powerful are beings who have subtly influenced Strange compared to Sauron or the Ring. As you said, the issue with some characters like Strange isn't so much how powerful his resistance is but can he maintain them all the time.

Okay, so the thing that manipulated Strange subtly over time was...Furnace Face.

*listens to the crickets*

More seriously, and to put in context, it was The Dorm reduced to a barest shadow of himself, barely able to do anything at all (that's not 'by comparison to his normal Skyfather-ish level', that's 'period'). He couldn't even reconstitute a body. But he was able to enter Strange's eye socket due to that eye socket being a repository of dark magical energies (it's a long story) and sit there, slowly regaining his power and influencing Strange to the point where he was basically able to get into Strange's head.

FINALLY, after months of slowly regaining some of his power, he got Strange to leave his body in astral form, then snatched the body himself. Which shot him back up to Strange level of power, which then allowed him to really start getting himself together.

But really, Furnace Face was messing around with Strange for a loooong time before he started to get strong again, due to having somewhat of a link to him...much like the Ring would.

Was actually a great Dr. Strange story, happening on Earth roughly at the same time as Inferno did (which allowed it to take place without anyone noticing, and to keep Strange from doing his thing and kicking Inferno out himself...which is amusing, due to the fact that had Furnace Face gotten his crap together fully, he would have just taken over that demonic invasion as his own). Filled with all kinds of humor and drama, classic spells (Crimson Bands!), Clea, Topaz, Strange as a rat, shoutouts to his recent Black Magic phase (Wings of Needless Sorrow for the win!), Thor's frogs, ritual magic, and crazy plots to beat Furnace Face who happened to be wearing Strange's body and all of his costume, Strange shooting quips at The Dorm like Spider-man was coaching him, etc.

Just a bucketload of fun.

The remark about will power making one more vulnerable was a mis-statement. I meant to imply that being more powerful, having more potential, seems to be argued as something that makes one more vulnerable. But that may be a Khan situation. Superior ability breeds superior ambition for better or worse.

Got it. ^_^

[BitVyper]

Like, ignoring daily temptations is a basic facet of willpower and discipline. And those are ALWAYS the things you secretly want to do and tend to come at you subtly because you're the one arguing yourself into doing them. Being able to recognize those things and continually tell yourself no, no matter how many different angles you come up with, is pretty much the definition of willpower. Part of what's frightening about the One Ring is because it does work this way and we all know that we are really bad at dealing with it in general. That changes a lot when we're talking about people with willpowers of supernatural magnitude. But then, fiction also tends to misunderstand what willpower actually is. Ultimately, there's a strong argument to be made based on the books, that the Ring itself is not even that directly corruptive outside of Sauron personally using it to manipulate the other rings, that it's just there and that most of the work is just you arguing yourself into using it with some slight nudging by the ring. At the very least, it seems to be able to make itself go unnoticed to the extent of people fondling it or even putting it on without really realising what they're doing, but then we're back at a direct contest of mental prowess. Furthermore, the Ring kind of depends on situations to necessitate its use; Boromir didn't go "lets use the ring to make crops grow faster in my peaceful land with no real crisis facing it," he was dealing with the very likely fact that all of his people were going to be slaughtered while some elves and a wizard a million miles away said "actually we're going to give this thing that could save you to a short guy and send him directly into Sauron's hands armed with a nice shirt and a gardener." In that extreme of a situation, it wouldn't have been unreasonable for Boromir to just club Frodo and take the damn thing the first chance he got.

Anyway, for me, I'd go with the test of being able to use it and then get rid of it. Granny Weatherwax certainly could. Shang Bu Huan could. I'd say that most incarnations of Link could, particularly A Link to the Past Link.

[Nik Hasta]

I was thinking Shang might have a decent shot.

He'd probably pick it up, sense what it is and be like "I'm going to dump this into scroll with the rest of the intensely evil magical shit that I need to destroy/dispose of," before it could really get a handle on him.

[TheLastDalek]

Sakura Kinomoto would still have a pretty good shot at resisting it in my opinion. I mean the girl is a reality warper who creates powerful magical beings by accident and dosn't feel any temptation to use her powers for much of anything. Without a crisis to necesitate use of those powers she just goes about her daily life.

[Nik Hasta]

Sakura Kinomoto would still have a pretty good shot at resisting it in my opinion. I mean the girl is a reality warper who creates powerful magical beings by accident and dosn't feel any temptation to use her powers for much of anything. Without a crisis to necesitate use of those powers she just goes about her daily life.

Eeeeehhh... Sakura has a lot of insecurities about her own powers and her worthiness to use them or whether she's strong enough and so on. Plus, despite her abilities and so on, she is still just sixteen year old girl with all the insecurities and hang-ups that entails.

The Ring would crack her pretty easily in my view.

[TheLastDalek]

Eeeeehhh... Sakura has a lot of insecurities about her own powers and her worthiness to use them or whether she's strong enough and so on. Plus, despite her abilities and so on, she is still just sixteen year old girl with all the insecurities and hang-ups that entails.

The Ring would crack her pretty easily in my view.

Eh I don't know about that. She already has access to huge amounts of power and chooses not to use it. Clear Card showed that she hadn't used the cards once between series and that she could accidentally created a whole other set of cards just by wanting something.

Resisting the urge to use power and having small desires are two of the biggest keys to resisting the Ring. So I think someone who has access to far more power than the Ring can offer and dosn't even think about using said power under normal circumstances. Hell knowing Sakura she would probably somehow end up befriending the Ring.