Marston's Magic Lasso vs the Lasso of Truth

[kjn]

Noah Berlatsky has written an interesting article over on Escapist Magazine: How Wonder Woman’s Lasso Lost Its Kinky Power:

If there’s one thing that you probably know about Wonder Woman’s lasso, it’s that it can force people to tell the truth. But the famous “Lasso of Truth” is something of a falsehood — or at least, a garbled half fact. Wonder Woman’s lasso wasn’t originally a Lasso of Truth; it was a much more versatile lasso of control. It was changed over time to make her less kinky and more mainstream — which is to say, truth pushed the Amazonian princess into the closet.

I think the article raises some interesting points. I'm not sure I prefer the Lasso of Aphrodite (ie the one invented by Marston) or the Lasso of Hestia (the Lasso of Truth). While the points Berlatsky raises about kink and stories are quite valid, I do think that the Lasso of Hestia can be more interesting from a story standpoint to explore questions of what truth is and our relation to it.

It also makes me once again believe that DC really missed the mark when they had Morrison write Wonder Woman Earth One. Marston's stories carries so much kink subtext that to engage with it requires creators who are familiar with and positive to kink.

[Agent Z]

Mind control is a super power that tends to be more associated with villains than heroes.

Rucka also had Diana give a sharp rebuttal to the idea of messing with a person's mind in his Superman run.

[kjn]

Mind control is a super power that tends to be more associated with villains than heroes.

Rucka also had Diana give a sharp rebuttal to the idea of messing with a person's mind in his Superman run.

I'd rather say that the practice of mind control is more associated with villains. But Marston's Wonder Woman had it via the lasso, and on the Marvel side you have Professor Xavier. I'd also say that this tendency is beside the point on what the article points out: that Marston's depiction of the lasso was deeply rooted in both sexuality and in Marston's views on gender, and that the switch over to the Lasso of Truth means that Wonder Woman lost part of that original connection.

In a way, Marston's Wonder Woman and Charles Xavier could be used for the moral and ethical questions regarding mind control and coercion: when are these tools appropriate, on what grounds, by whom, and on under which limits?

[Agent Z]

I'd rather say that the practice of mind control is more associated with villains. But Marston's Wonder Woman had it via the lasso, and on the Marvel side you have Professor Xavier. I'd also say that this tendency is beside the point on what the article points out: that Marston's depiction of the lasso was deeply rooted in both sexuality and in Marston's views on gender, and that the switch over to the Lasso of Truth means that Wonder Woman lost part of that original connection.

In a way, Marston's Wonder Woman and Charles Xavier could be used for the moral and ethical questions regarding mind control and coercion: when are these tools appropriate, on what grounds, by whom, and on under which limits?

I suppose that could work but if you're going to go that route you'd do well to approach the lasso in a way opposite to how Marston handled it (mind control and kink do not mix well together despite what some on ao3 might think).

[AmiMizuno]

Actually the lasso wasn’t just a kink. It was also on human violence and personality. Yes the bondage part was a part of the kink of the lasso had several different positions. The lasso was also a truth dector. It’s all about who uses it. The lasso is morally grey. Diana uses it to find the truth but villains abuses it and abuses the mind of the person their using it on. It’s to play around with the notion of mental abuse and domination

[SiegePerilous02]

I gotta go with the Magic Lasso. It's more powerful and the psychological themes that go along with it are way more interesting. And the article makes a great point that in order to get the Lasso of Truth, they had to sanitize Diana's sexuality and kinky side, because otherwise she'd be "sullied." The covered up the truth with the Lasso of Truth.

And the nebulous "truth" power has never made as much sense as a tool, because once she wraps the lasso around a villain who is not actively telling a lie, what the hell does she expect it to do? Throughout post-Crisis she always seems shocked when Cheetah or Circe shrug off the lasso's effects, but that's way less impressive for them to do than if they did it with the Magic Lasso. I guess one of the potential drawbacks would be writers struggling to come up with reasons why Diana isn't just ending conflicts in a panel by throwing the lasso on villains and commanding them to cut the crap, but throwing out the lasso's powers seems like a lazy solution.

Mind control is a super power that tends to be more associated with villains than heroes.

Diana's not really inclined to use it like a supervillain though. It's a tool and she's (one would hope) a responsible person who wouldn't abuse said tool's power. Throwing it on a group of gunmen and commanding them to stop shooting and calmly lower their weapons, for example, is not particularly villainous and prevents bloodshed. And is not that different than Professor X or Karma from using their mind powers in a similar scenario.

[Jcogginsa]

My preferred take on it is that the Lasso does have the power of obedience, but Wonder Woman makes a conscious choice not to use it for anything except learning the truth, for ethical reasons

[AmiMizuno]

I would say that the Lasso for a while the amazons were given the lasso by Aphrodite. What if the Amazons limited the lasso and renamed it the lasso of truth? They didn't want to have that control over someone? Of course they did use the full power when need it. I'm curious if we return to the original how should it work if someone like Cheetah got it? I feel the lasso should change in a sense. For example, if someone like Diana tied you you feel warm and safe. You heart opens up but if it's cheetah it's fear and something else. It's dealing with human emotions.

[Zahina]

I prefer the Lasso of Truth. Not only it can force anyone to tell the truth, it has other magical abilities. It can enter your soul, restore lost memories, cure insanity, get rid of illusions, protect the user from magical attacks and mind control.

[kjn]

I gotta go with the Magic Lasso. It's more powerful and the psychological themes that go along with it are way more interesting. And the article makes a great point that in order to get the Lasso of Truth, they had to sanitize Diana's sexuality and kinky side, because otherwise she'd be "sullied." The covered up the truth with the Lasso of Truth.

I think the causality is the other way around: DC wanted (for various reasons) to sanitise Diana's kinky side, and that meant, among other things, that the lasso was continually downplayed. I think Pérez's version became a logical step in that evolution. Now I'm speculating, but Pérez seems to have been uncomfortable working with sex and kink among protagonists, and falling into the meme that sexuality is evil.

I do think it's eminently possible to use the Lasso of Truth to tackle kink, just as the Magic Lasso, it's just not as blatant about it as the Magic Lasso.

[Agent Z]

I think the causality is the other way around: DC wanted (for various reasons) to sanitise Diana's kinky side, and that meant, among other things, that the lasso was continually downplayed. I think Pérez's version became a logical step in that evolution. Now I'm speculating, but Pérez seems to have been uncomfortable working with sex and kink among protagonists, and falling into the meme that sexuality is evil.

I do think it's eminently possible to use the Lasso of Truth to tackle kink, just as the Magic Lasso, it's just not as blatant about it as the Magic Lasso.

Perez was the co-creator of Starfire so I highly doubt he saw sexuality as evil. For Diana, he was just doing something other than making her sexuality the focus of the stories.

[kjn]

Perez was the co-creator of Starfire so I highly doubt he saw sexuality as evil. For Diana, he was just doing something other than making her sexuality the focus of the stories.

Ok, strike that theory then; I was mainly theorising based on his Wonder Woman run.

[Vanguard-01]

I like the Magic Lasso.

As has been said, it's more powerful and gives Diana some serious edge in combat.

As far as mind control typically being a villain power? Frankly, that's why I like Diana having it: it's a sign of her compassion that she can possess such an easily abused power and wield it responsibly. The temptation is always right there, at her hip. She could dominate everyone around her if she wanted to. She doesn't because she CHOOSES not to. I very much like the idea that Diana puts personal restrictions on herself as far as when and where it is appropriate to use such power.

Supervillains the world over would love to steal the Lasso and use it for their nefarious purposes as well, which invites all kinds of story options.

[Zahina]

I like the Magic Lasso.

As has been said, it's more powerful and gives Diana some serious edge in combat.

As far as mind control typically being a villain power? Frankly, that's why I like Diana having it: it's a sign of her compassion that she can possess such an easily abused power and wield it responsibly. The temptation is always right there, at her hip. She could dominate everyone around her if she wanted to. She doesn't because she CHOOSES not to. I very much like the idea that Diana puts personal restrictions on herself as far as when and where it is appropriate to use such power.

Supervillains the world over would love to steal the Lasso and use it for their nefarious purposes as well, which invites all kinds of story options.

Wouldn't that make Wonder Woman invincible and able to defeat her opponents easily?

[Vanguard-01]

Wouldn't that make Wonder Woman invincible and able to defeat her opponents easily?

Hardly. She has plenty of enemies who are fast enough to avoid getting lassoed in combat. Writers can dream up any number of excuses for why she just didn't manage to bring the Lasso to bear in time.

Then there's the whole idea that Diana has a personal honor code for when and where she uses it. Robbing people of their free will is something Diana doesn't take lightly, so it's rarely something she just does right off the bat.