Official gal gadot wonder woman image

[Vanguard-01]

You make it sound as if I'm the one that's trying to morph her into something else. I'm a Wonder Woman purist, that wants her to remain what she's always been, an American icon.

But she's not an American. She never was.

She was created by an American writer, but that writer did not try to make her into an American. He tried to make her into a propaganda poster for what he believed America should be: a matriarchal society built on BDSM play. That's not what America is supposed to be.

Over the years, she became a great character with her own ideals and values to represent. Those values are largely in line with American values, but they are not uniquely American concepts. As long as Diana stays true to those values, she'll always be what she's always been. What she wears doesn't matter.

[Razor Tiara]

But she's not an American. She never was.

She was created by an American writer, but that writer did not try to make her into an American. He tried to make her into a propaganda poster for what he believed America should be: a matriarchal society built on BDSM play. That's not what America is supposed to be.

Over the years, she became a great character with her own ideals and values to represent. Those values are largely in line with American values, but they are not uniquely American concepts. As long as Diana stays true to those values, she'll always be what she's always been. What she wears doesn't matter.

Yes it does. Other than Captain America, there's probably no hero more closely known for wearing elements of the American flag, besides Wonder Woman. To remove all traces, leaves her with an identity crisis.

[Vanguard-01]

Yes it does. Other than Captain America there's probably no hero more closely known for wearing elements of the American flag besides Wonder Woman. To remove all traces leaves her with an identity crisis.

No, it removes her from being wrongly associated with a nation that is not, and never was, hers. The identity crisis was when she WAS a foreign princess wearing another nation's flag.

Captain American SHOULD always wear the flag, because he's an American and he's supposed to stand for America's values. Just because Wonder Woman was well-known for wearing the American flag doesn't change the fact that it never made sense.

[Arvandor]

@ Arvandor - That sounded way harsh, sorry. That was my first reaction, no offense.

None taken.

I'm just saying that Superman is the League's inspiration and ideal, and saying that he inspired her colours makes more sense to me and is less frivolous than some contrived excuse about the American flag.

[Punisher007]

Yes it does. Other than Captain America, there's probably no hero more closely known for wearing elements of the American flag, besides Wonder Woman. To remove all traces, leaves her with an identity crisis.

Really, because I'm pretty sure that there's a character that's appearing in the SAME MOVIE that is MUCH more identified with those colors than WW is. His name is Superman.

[Top Carnivore]

You make it sound as if I'm the one that's trying to morph her into something else. I'm a Wonder Woman purist, that wants her to remain what she's always been, an American icon.

I'm thinking you're going to be sorely disappointed. Because after 2016, WW will belong to the world. Heck, even in her own current book, she's in London, not America. The Americanized WW is gone. Long live Diana of Themyscira!!!

[Top Carnivore]

No, it removes her from being wrongly associated with a nation that is not, and never was, hers. The identity crisis was when she WAS a foreign princess wearing another nation's flag.

Captain American SHOULD always wear the flag, because he's an American and he's supposed to stand for America's values. Just because Wonder Woman was well-known for wearing the American flag doesn't change the fact that it never made sense.

EGGzactly. Agreed on the Captain America point, too. He was not only American but signed up to serve in the US Military, for crying out loud. Of course he's gonna rock the American flag in some way.

[Vonter Voman]

Wonder Woman colors are red and blue, whether it looks like an American flag or not. The maximum change to be made is blue to black, because they're alike. How can one person see Wonder Woman (in costume) without her colors? The chestplate is not enough, as it keeps changing and the movie version is not really like some version in special. The tiara is different. The bracelets became common acessory for "warrior woman character". The lasso looks silver...

Xena's costume is a colorless and warrioresque version of Wonder Woman, so it's completely reasonable for people to think "Xena" when they see a colorless and more warrioresque version of Wonder Woman.

But it doesn't matter. The costume IS red and blue, and doesn't look like an America flag because they made it right, with darker and less vibrant colors, and without the stars (I could use some stars, but I can live without them). Again, too bad for the people defending the brown look.

I'm not defending "American WW" in any way. I'm not american and I don't think she should be an "honorary American". I'm just defending her colors. And there's absolutely no reason to not have red and blue colors if the costume doesn't resamble a flag. Spiderman colors were probably inspired by US colors, but few people realize or bother with that. It doesn't look like a flag, and so there's no reason to not be red and blue.

[Darius]

No, it removes her from being wrongly associated with a nation that is not, and never was, hers. The identity crisis was when she WAS a foreign princess wearing another nation's flag.

Captain American SHOULD always wear the flag, because he's an American and he's supposed to stand for America's values. Just because Wonder Woman was well-known for wearing the American flag doesn't change the fact that it never made sense.

Well, it made sense in the GA when she was sent to America to help stop the forces of the Nazi's and the Japanese. She was as much a WWII symbol as anything upon her creation and fought the German and Japanese armies far more often than SM or BM. I'm rather fond of her classic look, but I would agree that she is far more an international symbol of equality than of "American" values in this day and age. Personally I just think the flag look is just more recognizable to more people as WW.

[Vonter Voman]

And actually, if it was to be all de-americanized, they shouldn't have used the eagle chestplate. It's the thing that most make her costume look like a blatant homage to US compared to other red and blue costumes out there.

But I don't bother, because Americans haven't trademarked eagles either.

EDIT: Awesome drawing and the colors are probably the closest from what we're gonna get. Doesn't strike me as American at all.

[GlennSimpson]

Taking out the stars helped a lot. And the chestplate could be a hawk for that matter. So even if the colors are there, I think it still does a good job of taking the strange USA flag connection off the table.

[Dr. Hurt]

"It's better to not tie it to US at all"...I disagree.

Wonder Woman is an American creation, representing the ideals of a uniquely American brand of freedom and democracy,

Why are they so unique? Newsflash: 99% of the western world has democracy too.

and I see no reason why she shouldn't continue to wear the American standard.

How about it makes no freaking sense? Even if the US of A is so awesome, do you really expect a foreigner to instantly love it and represent it with no love or regard for his own home? Is that why all the asians live in chinatowns, greek and italians have their own neighbourhoods, etc?

If America hasn't always lived up to that ideal in foreign and domestic policy, so be it. Again, ..she represents an American ideal, and not the reality, and if that's not good enough for the international fans, that's fine, too.

The problem is that it feels patronizing and arrogant.
Also, the studios make more money abroad than domestic. So the foreign markets matter, at least for movies.

Wonder Woman doesn't belong to the world; she belongs to us. Why do we now have a problem saying that, outright?

Like i said above, you cant only appeal to americans.

She is an American creation that we are happy and proud to share with the rest of the world, and that should be enough. James Bond is a patently British creation that the UK has shared with the rest of us. If no one is expecting a more American or Jamaican James Bond, why should these demands be made of Wonder Woman?

Except James Bond is a cheesy superhero who dresses in a swimsuit made from a colourful flag, preaching how the UK is so awesome, so even people outside of britain can accept him.

Let me say further that I think the attempt to de-Americanize Captain America's look in 'Winter Soldier was shameful and deservedly, a miserable failure. He's back in the flag, where he damn well belongs.

It was his stealth suit for that one mission on the boat. But the truth behind it is that they gave him that suit because his normal one is cheesy as hell. Same as WW's.

[Jabare]

The stars wouldn't have worked well in live action. You could have made the chest area red I guess but I don't think it matters considering the way they are probably trying to breath life into Wondy for live action.

[Dr. Hurt]

That's a personal opinion, here's mine. I'm proud to be an American, no matter how messed up my country is. I'm not embarrassed by it, nor would I try to hide it. That's what's happening here.

No one is asking you to. But the rest of the world kind of finds laughable the idea of dressing in your own flag (or worse, having a foreigner do it so that it's even more awesome). But it's comics from the 40ies and 50ies, they were all nuts and cheesy. The thing is that everybody else moved on. Even Superman.

And as Hippolyta clearly states, we often need to be reminded of our ideals. That's what Wonder Woman's traditional costume does.

No, it doesnt. It's just a clownish costume from 70 year old comic books. And it's one of the many reasons that she cant have a tv series, movie, or best selling comic book.

I'm a proud American too. I believe in her ideals. But I'm not blind to the fact that right now, we're doing a piss-poor job of living up to those ideals.

And no, putting Diana in an American flag costume does not remind us how far we've fallen. She's foreign royalty from a completely different nation, with completely different ideals. Having her put on our flag just seems like a desperate effort by her and DC to shoehorn Diana into being "one of us."

Let Diana represent her own ideals. She doesn't need to be a propaganda piece.

Well said.


I think that at the end of the day, a good ideal is a good ideal, no matter where it comes from. Should WW only represent X and Y but leave out Z because Z is not among the basic american values?

You make it sound as if I'm the one that's trying to morph her into something else. I'm a Wonder Woman purist, that wants her to remain what she's always been, an American icon.

Asterix and Obelix are French icons and yet they dont need to dress in the french flag, or spout rhetoric about french ideals and ideologic supremacy.

[Vonter Voman]

The stars wouldn't have worked well in live action. You could have made the chest area red I guess but I don't think it matters considering the way they are probably trying to breath life into Wondy for live action.

The stars could have worked if they were like this or with more points




--------------

Brown Wonder Woman costume would not work as the standard. It's not WW's costume. You have to look at the costume and think "this is a different portrayal, but this looks like WW". They would be obligated to change it for the Justice League or a solo movie.

Some people are accepting the brown look (even though it's not brown, for the 100th time) but only with the justification of it being her first costume, changing to the classic colors after that. I don't like this idea precisely because it will tie to US. "She changed it because now she is american". Just give her a red and blue costume from the start. Represent red and blue on Amazonian stuff (curtains, clothes, etc). Done.

They justified the S on Superman's chest (not exclusively for MoS). Just make red and blue Amazon royalty colors or something.