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  1. #1
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Default Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

    So the Nightwing book is currently a bit out of sorts (to put it mildly). The appreciation thread has pretty much become us all complaining about the current comic (and rightly so). So, I thought it would be nice to have some fun instead.

    Has this already been done? Probably. Have we talked about it here and there in the appreciation thread? Sure. But I think it would be nice for us to flex our creative muscles.

    What would your pitch for Nightwing's book be? Have fun and be detailed. Include things like homebase/lair, general direction, tone, influences, supporting cast, and the like.

    (note: "Just do Grayson again" isn't a wrong answer, but its also not a fun answer. Be more specific.)

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I'm not certain enough to give a creative and definitive answer to this question (Just do Grayson again!) so I'll instead go with the shotgun approach with a wide variety of options:

    1.) Fix the Titans: End the current Nightwing and Titans series, relaunch with a stronger creative team and a larger emphasis on Nightwing. Much like "Red Hood and the Outlaws" or "Batman and the Outsiders" while it will be a team book where everyone gets moment to shine, Dick gets top billing as the team leader. No Beast Boy or Raven because I'm sick of them. The Titans franchise should be DC's X-Men, it needs to be big again. The problem with the current lineup is that they are boring and unprovocative. Having recently binged on Rucka's Checkmate run, I kinda think that I want the Titans be about halfway to the Winnick era Outsiders in terms of how they are regarded in the superhero community.

    They should reflect the discontent of a younger generation with the bureaucracy of the Justice League and international community, acting without regard to protocol or diplomatic relations. They aren't satisfied with the status quo and take more direct action and somewhat reckless.

    2.) Dick's identity crisis (no not that kind of Identity Crisis!): People don't have their lives figured out right away, sometimes they realize that they are along a path that's not for them and they have to backtrack a little. I'd dedicate a storyline to Dick realizing that everything about the Dixon-era status quo (and subsequent retreads) are simply not for him. Like a student switching majors or careers or cities, I'd have Dick realize that he simply cannot have a normal life. He will never be satisfied as a bartender or a taxi-cab driver. Bludhaven is a cage keeping him down. Dick should struggle with this realization. He should see this as quitting or giving up, something he should never do. But with the advice of his family and friends, he should realize that he should make the choice to leave Bludhaven behind. He is still helping people all around the world, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing to be ashamed of for realizing that something is not right for you.

    3.) Nuke Bludhaven (again!): If it hasn't been made clear yet, I really hate Bludhaven. Perhaps the most interesting thing done with it was nuking it, and yet this opportunity was squandered on Nightwing. Instead of making that a new status quo, they just moved him out of Bludhaven and into New York. That ignored all of the interesting things that could have been done and put him into the exact same situation that nuking Bludhaven got him out of. In Final Crisis, the final battle against humanity was fought out of the nuked out Bludhaven and not once was Nightwing's connection to it mentioned. That's ridiculous.

    And while nuking it again may sound repetitive or easily undone, what I am more interested in is exploring what should have been done the first time. Bring in the international superhero community to help during the initial aftermath with Dick in calling the shots. Make Dick's new direction salvaging the wastelands of a post-Apocalyptic Bludhaven trying to help the people who did not make it out. This could deal with mutated people crazed by radiation, people banding up in savage tribes for survival, and villain groups hoping to seek refuge in the ruins to scheme like Darkside did in Final Crisis.

    4.) Dick and Kory in Space: C'mon, we were all thinking it when Justice League Oddessy was anounced. The Titans in space. I'd be down for some cosmic adventures. However, DC also still owes us some Nightwing and Starfire adventures in space. Barbara has gotten the large majority of Dick's interest in the past few years and I'd like a change from that. Have them bump into the Omega Men in the Vega whatever.

    5.) Give him a sidekick. This seems like the final step for Dick to be an accomplished superhero. Superman's had em. Batman's had em. Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Arrow, and Aquaman have all had them. The final step for Dick to step on his own is his own sidekick. No Stephanie Brown or Tim Drake or even Damian. Dick need this step to get out on his own. Having the first sidekick in the DCU would be bring Dick's story full circle.

    6.) Put him in charge of Batman Inc.: I'll be honest, I have not idea what the current status of Batman Inc. is. But when Seeley talked about Dick being a one man international strike force of the Bat during his early Rebirth interviews, it brought the idea of Inc. to mind. With Bruce busy in Gotham, make Nightwing in charge of supporting the various Batmen and Batwomen around the world. Helping out where need be and doing missions under no Batman's jurisdiction.

    7.) Do Grayson again!: Yeah I know that the lazy one but its the one we all want. But since its so lazy I'll give it a pitch too. When Tiger first appeared, everyone on CBR was speculating that he was going to be end up being a villain. I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that some were speculating that this was King's attempt to make "Dick's Joker." So that impression stuck with me. And maybe with that in mind I've never view Tiger in a heroic light. They revealed his duplicity in the final issues of Grayson but seemingly gloss over it afterward, making him all buddy buddy with Dick again. I'm also still dead certain that Rise of the Raptor was written from the bones of a story that was originally made for Tiger. So with all of this wild speculation in mind, I'd have Tiger call Dick in for a favor only to realize that he is being manipulated.

    From what I recall about Tiger's background, he is from Kandahar, the former capital of the Taliban in Afghanistan, which was also previously occupied by the Soviets. So I would probably have Tiger deeply resentful of what he sees to be imperialist influence of his home. He would work covertly to destabilize the US-backed government in the region and manipulate Dick into working against the international community. I'd pit him up against order-keeping organizations like Checkmate, US backed affiliations like Argus and the Suicide Squad, and chaos agents like Leviathan and various mercenaries like Deathstroke. When he realizes he's been had, he fights against Spyral and takes down Tiger, winding up in charge of the organization.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  3. #3
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    I'm not certain enough to give a creative and definitive answer to this question (Just do Grayson again!) so I'll instead go with the shotgun approach with a wide variety of options:

    ...

    2.) Dick's identity crisis (no not that kind of Identity Crisis!): People don't have their lives figured out right away, sometimes they realize that they are along a path that's not for them and they have to backtrack a little. I'd dedicate a storyline to Dick realizing that everything about the Dixon-era status quo (and subsequent retreads) are simply not for him. Like a student switching majors or careers or cities, I'd have Dick realize that he simply cannot have a normal life. He will never be satisfied as a bartender or a taxi-cab driver. Bludhaven is a cage keeping him down. Dick should struggle with this realization. He should see this as quitting or giving up, something he should never do. But with the advice of his family and friends, he should realize that he should make the choice to leave Bludhaven behind. He is still helping people all around the world, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing to be ashamed of for realizing that something is not right for you.

    ....

    6.) Put him in charge of Batman Inc.: I'll be honest, I have not idea what the current status of Batman Inc. is. But when Seeley talked about Dick being a one man international strike force of the Bat during his early Rebirth interviews, it brought the idea of Inc. to mind. With Bruce busy in Gotham, make Nightwing in charge of supporting the various Batmen and Batwomen around the world. Helping out where need be and doing missions under no Batman's jurisdiction.

    7.) Do Grayson again!: Yeah I know that the lazy one but its the one we all want. But since its so lazy I'll give it a pitch too. When Tiger first appeared, everyone on CBR was speculating that he was going to be end up being a villain. I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that some were speculating that this was King's attempt to make "Dick's Joker." So that impression stuck with me. And maybe with that in mind I've never view Tiger in a heroic light. They revealed his duplicity in the final issues of Grayson but seemingly gloss over it afterward, making him all buddy buddy with Dick again. I'm also still dead certain that Rise of the Raptor was written from the bones of a story that was originally made for Tiger. So with all of this wild speculation in mind, I'd have Tiger call Dick in for a favor only to realize that he is being manipulated.

    From what I recall about Tiger's background, he is from Kandahar, the former capital of the Taliban in Afghanistan, which was also previously occupied by the Soviets. So I would probably have Tiger deeply resentful of what he sees to be imperialist influence of his home. He would work covertly to destabilize the US-backed government in the region and manipulate Dick into working against the international community. I'd pit him up against order-keeping organizations like Checkmate, US backed affiliations like Argus and the Suicide Squad, and chaos agents like Leviathan and various mercenaries like Deathstroke. When he realizes he's been had, he fights against Spyral and takes down Tiger, winding up in charge of the organization.
    Go with me on this, combine 2, 6, and 7. Dick leaves Bludhaven to do "One job for a friend! Its a favor!" despite Babs' protest. He gets sucked in though. He's doing good things, heroic things in places where the Justice League can't openly operate (like Biyalia and Rhelasia). He doesn't have any interest in a day job or a normal life. "Babs! Your dad is a police commissioner. You go to school and love studying. You have roots in a normal life. My dad is the freaking Batman! The closest thing I've ever had to a normal life was a circus! A CIRCUS! I can't just tend bar or drive a taxi, okay?! And I can't just live off Bruce's money! Spyral is doing good work. Work that I'd probably do on my own, and I don't have to pretend to live a 'normal' life. And yeah, the paycheck and room and board is nice."

    Fast forward a bit, and Dick realizes that Tiger has betrayed him, that Spyral isn't really on the side of the angels afterall. Perhaps in a climactic conflict, the Justice League shows up and fights against Spyral with Dick there. Dick loses his cool. Dramatic, multipage fight with Tiger, where ever they are, EVERYTHING is on fire. Dick and Tiger both escape, but Dick now has a singular focus. Spyral will burn.

    Dick knows that this is too much for him to do alone. This isn't a job for one street level hero. This isn't even a job for the Titans. To fight Spyral, he is going to need an entire network of agents he trusts. He sets about rebuilding Batman, Inc. Gucho. Nightrunner. Everyone. With his experience with Spyral, he knows what he is doing. This isn't just a vigilante on an undercover mission. He isn't a mole anymore. He is a spy, espionage is his forte.

    And as for his supporting cast here, I say stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Stop being so self conscious about sparing space with Batman. Alfred would make a 'M' type character. Lucius Fox can show up from time to time as a 'Q' type. Let him come full circle. He wanted to get away from his family and be his own man. Now he see's that those two don't go hand in hand quite as well as he'd previously thought.

    I think it might be time to reread Morrison + King&Seeley.

  4. #4
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    1)Give Nightwing a decent writer
    2)Give Nightwing a decent artist
    3)LET the creative team tell the story they want to tell

    There.

  5. #5
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onthetrapeze View Post
    1)Give Nightwing a decent writer
    2)Give Nightwing a decent artist
    3)LET the creative team tell the story they want to tell

    There.
    4) Gets completely thrown out with the next team.
    5) Gets story blown up for the next bat/dcu event.
    6) creative team is good than gets moved onto "bigger characters that matters".

    There. Right back here.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    4) Gets completely thrown out with the next team.
    5) Gets story blown up for the next bat/dcu event.
    6) creative team is good than gets moved onto "bigger characters that matters".

    There. Right back here.
    Lol 1)-3) is what we want and 4)-6)is what we get.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    (note: "Just do Grayson again" isn't a wrong answer, but its also not a fun answer. Be more specific.)
    Hahahaha. I was literally about to say this before I read that.

    This is what they should do but on a larger scale, more focused scale. Yeah I'm aware that sounds like an oxymoron of sorts. Lemme explain:

    A Grayson that is focused on the Espionage aspect of the DC universe. I'm talking Checkmate, Waller, Suicide Squad (the good version i.e. Ostrander era), ARGUS, Cadmus (not sure its defunct now). These can have supers as guest stars but not like regulars. Maybe every other arc. Will go as far as saying no interaction with the Bat family...well maybe except Alfred and Damien (not Robin).

    As to larger scale - go worldwide. Stay away from Gotham/Bludhaven, Metropolis, Star City, Emerald City, Coast City, etc and go to Rome, Budapest, Kazakhstan etc.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Hahahaha. I was literally about to say this before I read that.

    This is what they should do but on a larger scale, more focused scale. Yeah I'm aware that sounds like an oxymoron of sorts. Lemme explain:

    A Grayson that is focused on the Espionage aspect of the DC universe. I'm talking Checkmate, Waller, Suicide Squad (the good version i.e. Ostrander era), ARGUS, Cadmus (not sure its defunct now). These can have supers as guest stars but not like regulars. Maybe every other arc. Will go as far as saying no interaction with the Bat family...well maybe except Alfred and Damien (not Robin).

    As to larger scale - go worldwide. Stay away from Gotham/Bludhaven, Metropolis, Star City, Emerald City, Coast City, etc and go to Rome, Budapest, Kazakhstan etc.
    I think I'd like to see Dick traveling a lot--going to those cities so different from America. It'd show his nomadic nature. I see Bruce as sort of the ultimate homebody; he'd be terrified of ever leaving Gotham because SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN without him busting somebody's chops over it; it really makes no sense for him to be on other teams because he's always thinking about protecting Gotham--his world limited to that city. The writers and artists could possibly have a nice tax write-off if they went in that direction: "We have to go to Rome now and get some local color."

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