Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[Jackalope89]

...of course.

I'm hoping it will be as Matches Junior.

[dropkickjake]

So lets say we're pitching the series for this continuity, in which CC Haly died and is still dead. What type of character would make a good substitute for that role?

Basically, I like the idea of bringing Raya back as something of an undead Talon sidekick to William Cobb. But if Raya exists, Haly is dead. Granted, I think that the merits of having Haly alive outweigh Raya's potential as a villain.

[Ascended]

So lets say we're pitching the series for this continuity, in which CC Haly died and is still dead. What type of character would make a good substitute for that role?

Basically, I like the idea of bringing Raya back as something of an undead Talon sidekick to William Cobb. But if Raya exists, Haly is dead. Granted, I think that the merits of having Haly alive outweigh Raya's potential as a villain.

It'd also be easy enough to bring Haly back into the narrative with either a "it was a fake death" excuse or a "he got better" excuse. Neither are very deft but if it's all about getting the toys lined up so you can move forward, readers will usually forgive a clunky or awkward turn. And I agree; Haly alive is more interesting than a undead Talon sidekick for Cobb.......though that *is* pretty damn interesting.

But if not Jack Haly......okay, you need someone with experience in show business, someone who can be the "face" of the organization......

It'd be a departure from the circus roots, but Jack Ryder, aka the Creeper, might be an interesting choice. He's got experience in show business with his radio show, and if this would be different, at least its *something.* Plus, since Jack is a douche-canoe who argues about everything just for the sake of it (I guess? Im not too familiar with him) he'd work nicely as a "voice of dissent" in the supporting cast, allowing for deeper examination of Dick's choices and actions. It might work well if you were leaning harder into a "casino" stereotype/mentality than a "circus" one.

Zatanna could fit. Sure, she'd rather be performing and traveling than dealing with balance sheets and income statements, but she knows the business and you couldn't ask for a better person to be the....ring leader? Not sure of the title; the thing Haly does where he announces the next act and engages the crowd. Zee's friggin made for that. This could perhaps be seen as Zee taking the "next step" in life, just as we're talking about Dick doing, and moving on to a new, more stable and "important" role. She could still perform at the casino, if not all the time, and it'd add her to Dick's supporting cast which a lot of YJ fans want.

Oberon would be a interesting choice if he weren't dead, and if there was any hope at all of Dick stealing him from the Fourth World if he weren't. Deadman would be cool too, if only people could see him. Personally, I kinda like the idea of a casino/circus in the DCU being led by a ghost; it's the kind of crazy, weird thing you'd expect from a world like DC. Easy enough to explain his now being able to appear in front of people as "magic talisman" or "practice" or whatever hand wave-y thing you like.

If all you want is an older father figure type of character though, you just keep Alfred. Anything else is going to feel false. The only two characters who can really pull that role off for Dick are Alf and Haly.

[WonderNight]

If the casino needs someone to run the day to day how about kathy kane. Have kathy be the M to dicks bond and have the casino double as bludhevan's HQ with nightwing as its top agent.

The P.R would be that billionaire ward, flying grayson and boyfriend of Karen Starr dick grayson partners with billionaire and former circus woman kathy kane to bring jobs and safe entertainment to bludhevan.

Kathy runs the day to day and paper work, dick globetrots around the world and books the talent for events zatanna, black canary, vixen ect.

But behind that face kathy is running spyral with nightwing as there top agent. This way we can bring the word of Nightwing and Grayson together.

[Ascended]

I was thinking Dick would base Spyral operations out of the casino itself (though I was thinking of him as being the one in charge too). It puts innocents in danger if anyone ever tried a direct assault, but it'd be a big layer of protection against clandestine groups that want to avoid being seen. Hard to secretly attack a rival spy organization when they're hiding in plain sight and any attack is going to be seen by hundreds of random people with phone cameras.

Kathy running the casino......okay, that could work if she's just keeping the books and doing the administration/managerial stuff. I think she'd be horrible as a ring master (looked up the right terminology!) though; she's so deep in the spy game I dunno if she could bring herself to stand in front of an audience like that every day.

[WonderNight]

If not kathy kane than maybe Karen Starr as dick's partner?

[Ascended]

Well, I definitely am all about the Power Girl-Nightwing ship.

And Karen has business experience, so she'd be able to handle the administrative stuff (in theory; casino probably runs differently than a corporation).

Hell, she might even be a natural for the role of ringmaster. She's extroverted enough to enjoy the attention.

I'd draw the line at her being Nightwing's crime fighting partner on the reg, tho. Having them team up on patrol now and then would be great, and a total requirement in my book, but for a permanent "sidekick-partner" type of thing I'd rather Dick work with someone who is clearly the junior partner. I want Dick to have that sidekick-mentor dynamic where he's clearly the one in charge, and Karen is way too experienced to be a junior anything.

Personally I'd have Dick date Karen, teaming up with her now and then for some Worlds' Greatest stuff, but Dick's actual sidekick would be Flamebird.

[dropkickjake]

Yeah I think that Haly's gotta be the ringmaster. I like the idea of a Fox running the business side of it, though Karen Starr would be an interesting source of the money and such.

I could see Dick working with a young Kryptonian, but I do think the power scale would have to be more Captain America than Superman. Actually, an OC kryptonion could be a VERY good answer to the sidekick/flamebird question we've wrestled with for a few pages.

Actually really warming to the idea of Karen Starr as the financier of the Casino. Gives her and Dick a reason to interact outside of the costumes. I'd most like to see them on a team book together though.

[Jackalope89]

Yeah I think that Haly's gotta be the ringmaster. I like the idea of a Fox running the business side of it, though Karen Starr would be an interesting source of the money and such.

I could see Dick working with a young Kryptonian, but I do think the power scale would have to be more Captain America than Superman. Actually, an OC kryptonion could be a VERY good answer to the sidekick/flamebird question we've wrestled with for a few pages.

Actually really warming to the idea of Karen Starr as the financier of the Casino. Gives her and Dick a reason to interact outside of the costumes. I'd most like to see them on a team book together though.

If he hadn't been aged up (I am trying to control myself on that), Jon would have been an interesting choice. Clark knows and trusts Dick, and I imagine Jon would love to experience the circus, even if its only for a little bit.

[wvchemteach]

If he hadn't been aged up (I am trying to control myself on that), Jon would have been an interesting choice. Clark knows and trusts Dick, and I imagine Jon would love to experience the circus, even if its only for a little bit.

If Rebirth had not retconned him into a villain having Dick looking after Lor-Zod/Chris Kent might be doable. Another thought would be to have Lex Luthor go for a Superboy style clone, but this time instead of combining Superman and Lex's DNA, combine Zod and Lex's DNA. Could make for some interesting stories where a Chris Kent would worry he is destined to be evil because of his sires and you have Dick teaching him about what he does defining who he is.

[dropkickjake]

If Rebirth had not retconned him into a villain having Dick looking after Lor-Zod/Chris Kent might be doable. Another thought would be to have Lex Luthor go for a Superboy style clone, but this time instead of combining Superman and Lex's DNA, combine Zod and Lex's DNA. Could make for some interesting stories where a Chris Kent would worry he is destined to be evil because of his sires and you have Dick teaching him about what he does defining who he is.

I know nothing about Chris Kent, but Dick does seem to attract children of super criminals. Damian. Artemis in YJ (friend, not sidekick), Rose. I like this real well.

[wvchemteach]

I know nothing about Chris Kent, but Dick does seem to attract children of super criminals. Damian. Artemis in YJ (friend, not sidekick), Rose. I like this real well.

I didn't know anything either initially, but apparently before New 52 who was the foster son of Clark and Lois and later was Nightwing after Dick became Batman.

This could even be an interesting side avenue that Dick starts... rehabilitating youngsters who are on the path of villainy and turning them around.

[dropkickjake]

I didn't know anything either initially, but apparently before New 52 who was the foster son of Clark and Lois and later was Nightwing after Dick became Batman.

This could even be an interesting side avenue that Dick starts... rehabilitating youngsters who are on the path of villainy and turning them around.

Yeah, I definitely think Chris Kent would be the way to go for Flamebird now. Checks a lot of the boxes we've talked about. He's kryptonian. He's an established character, but not used so often in the big books that he'd always be unavailable (especially now that Jon Kent is around). He even has a history with the Nightwing/Flamebird names.

Looks like he is about the right age in his first rebirth appearance though. I even see in universe motivation for him to hide his kyptonian powers. He's the son of some of the greatest war criminals in the galaxy, and it looks like he at least starts out pretty loyal to them. Batman barely trusts Clark with the Superman power set. Would he trust a boy? A boy raised by Zod and Ursa? Unlikely. If the kid has a change of heart, he is going to have to hide. Why not run away to the circus?

And it would be the pinnacle of in-character for Dick to take him under his wing. He's seen Damian grow into something resembling a *normal* bratty rich kid instead of a murderous brat who thinks it is his inheritance to rule the world. This kid deserves a chance. He doesn't have to be his parents. His potential, if he is given a chance, is great. I could see Dick hiding his true identity from everyone, Batman included.

[Mataza]

I got a great one. He has amnesia and becomes a Bum, his true nature. then proceeds to be ignored by everyone and is left to wander the world away from the people that should love and care for him.

[oasis1313]

I got a great one. He has amnesia and becomes a Bum, his true nature. then proceeds to be ignored by everyone and is left to wander the world away from the people that should love and care for him.

Oh, wow! I am so totally blown away!!! This is the grooviest, most original idea EVER!!! The fans will just ADORE it, especially those long-standing devoted customers we have so much care and respect for! Let’s really give ‘em something to love! How about we make him an alcoholic—not even a classy alcoholic like Tony Stark—we’ll make him a stinky wino living in an alley. Never mind that he wasn’t much of a drinker before and it makes no sense for a trapeze artist who works without a net. His “family” will decide it’s “for the best” to leave a brain-damaged man out on the street—heaven forbid it make a ripple in THEIR lives—that makes ‘em so relatable to the average family. One of the perks about being a Timmy Wormy fan is that you’ll never have to worry about YOUR guy being treated like a biohazard.