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  1. #931
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    The whole point of Leviathan seems to be cleaning house of all the spy/secret organizations in the DCU so there might not even be a Spyral left once all is said and done. Of course, that just leaves the door open for Dick to be the one who tries and rebuilds Spryal from the ground up which wouldn't be so bad either.

  2. #932
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The whole point of Leviathan seems to be cleaning house of all the spy/secret organizations in the DCU so there might not even be a Spyral left once all is said and done. Of course, that just leaves the door open for Dick to be the one who tries and rebuilds Spryal from the ground up which wouldn't be so bad either.
    Yeah, and its about time someone made an effort to define and clean that corner of the DCU up. We've got tons and tons of agencies and organizations with lots of overlap and scattered, vague purposes and motivations and hap-hazard appearances. Someone needs to consolidate it all and build a blueprint, really make that side of DC shine.

    If there was any justice in the world Dick would be in the thick of this story. Best we can hope for is that a writer down the line takes advantage of it.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  3. #933
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The whole point of Leviathan seems to be cleaning house of all the spy/secret organizations in the DCU so there might not even be a Spyral left once all is said and done. Of course, that just leaves the door open for Dick to be the one who tries and rebuilds Spryal from the ground up which wouldn't be so bad either.
    yea but the problem is that DC needs a popular character to be the centerpiece that corner or all this will equal nothing. It'll just fall back into the background again.

    I mean who Steve trevor or nemesis? That'll be canceled within a year. If only DC had a very popular character that they currently don't know what to do with and don't have a plan or direction for who just finished be a very successful superspy. But WHO

  4. #934
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Kate Kane?

    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  5. #935
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The whole point of Leviathan seems to be cleaning house of all the spy/secret organizations in the DCU so there might not even be a Spyral left once all is said and done. Of course, that just leaves the door open for Dick to be the one who tries and rebuilds Spryal from the ground up which wouldn't be so bad either.
    That's all well and good, and it would be nice if, by some miracle, this is actually what Didio meant when he said "we have some great idea for Dick in the future" when they started doing Ric, but it still doesn't solve my main problem with DC and Dick that they feel they can just cancel his stories to serve another story.

    The sales going even lower may give them the idea, but at the very least, I need to see him out of the Batman department and go to the Justice League department and get his own logo, before I can trust that they won't drag him back to a Batman story. Even then, that won't stop them doing a Forever Evil thing since that one's all-encompassing.

    But one thing at a time. Ric needs to go first.

  6. #936
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Kate Kane?

    . Let dick have this bro

  7. #937
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    That's all well and good, and it would be nice if, by some miracle, this is actually what Didio meant when he said "we have some great idea for Dick in the future" when they started doing Ric, but it still doesn't solve my main problem with DC and Dick that they feel they can just cancel his stories to serve another story.

    The sales going even lower may give them the idea, but at the very least, I need to see him out of the Batman department and go to the Justice League department and get his own logo, before I can trust that they won't drag him back to a Batman story. Even then, that won't stop them doing a Forever Evil thing since that one's all-encompassing.

    But one thing at a time. Ric needs to go first.
    Yep get dick out of thhe bat office! He has no direction or niche there. Send nightwing to the justice league office and give him a globetrotting superspy book with regular dcu team ups and turly be the heart of the dcu and his own man.

  8. #938
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    . Let dick have this bro
    Ha! If it were up to me, Nightwing would have the lofty and badass position in the DCU he's earned and deserved.

    But its not up to me.
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  9. #939
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I have an new idea for when Dick wakes up from this Ric shit. Dick investigates what happens at Sanctuary, realizes that if at that moment someone was just there to give Wally a god damn hug and tell him he wasn’t alone none of it would have happened, and so Dick becomes disillusioned with his heroes the Trinity. Claims that they have become too detached and conceded, thinking they could create a computer to fix people, and ignites an uprising with the other generations against the Trinity. It would be DC’s version of a superhero civil war.

    I actually quite dig this.

    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I think I already pitched one like tens of pages ago or it's been in my head for a while but I want Dick to go back to the circus. Reconnecting to his roots seems like the best idea if Dick's mind is reset to the night his parents died/pre-Batman and this time there is no Bruce to take him in.

    Start the arc with Dick going back to Haly's circus, here all the circus folk will be reestablished along with Raptor who is someone who just joined as well. Raptor will be filling in a very Thawne type of role, helping Dick regain what he has lost to be a better "hero". The basic logline would be, What if Raptor helped and Bruce didn't that night the Graysons fell? A majority of the story-beats would revolve around Dick being taught something by each member of the circus and Raptor that would tie into things he vaguely remembers from Batman and his previous life fighting crime. Raptor would push Dick out to become Nightwing again while manipulating him, taking advantage of his mind and skill. Attacking the rich and the like, Dick would regain bits and pieces as the story progresses leading to a final choice of Dick accepting his new life or reclaiming his old.

    I'm envisioning the final fight between him and Raptor would be during a circus performance that has acid on the ropes. The whole tent filled with the rich elite and rigged to explode. I have these images of Dick flashing back and forth between his days in the circus with the present during the fight, like his parents telling him what maneuvers he uses to swing through the air and defeat raptor who falls like his parents in the end. You see him hit the ground but by the time the story is all said and done the body is gone, that kind of thing.
    This as well. you seem to have this pretty well developed. And I like the underlying question of "How much of the Dick Grayson we know has come from Bruce and Bruce alone?"

  10. #940
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Alright. I think a few things would make sense given the scenario of "Dick's last memory is his parents dying."

    Bruce is in an emotionally shambolic state given his recent events. This fits with what King is doing in his run.

    Babs & Damian aren't gonna give up on him. They start working on getting a telepath to come in and fix this mess.

    Dick has seen some weird shit with various occult stuff while in the circus. He bounces HARD when he hears about someone coming in to mess with his brain. Does what he knows: Joins a circus. Maybe under a false name. Either way, when he finds out what happened to Haly's because of him (Mr. Haly, Raya, and Raymund dead; circus effed up by the joker), he'd be wrecked. That'd probably be motive to avoid hero life for the duration of the story.

    Spyral, wants him. Wants to fix his memory and make him an Agent again.

    The owls obviously want him.

    Babs and Damian are obviously going to be hot on his tail.


    I think this concept has some legs. I'm also playing with the idea of Dick getting a cryptic message about Mr. Haly still being alive. So that would work as bait for the Owls, who maybe have had him put on ice for future blackmail attempts.

    So we'd have Dick hunting for Haly, which is really the owls (maybe William Cobb specifically), luring him into a trap. We'd have Babs and Damian team up in tracking down runaway Dick. And we'd have Spyral, maybe in the form of Tiger and Lotti Duff or Tiger and Helena, teaming up to track him down as well. Batfamily and Spyral would be distrustful of each other. Owls would be nefarious and shady.

    Maybe we throw in Raptor trying to chase him down.

  11. #941
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    I actually quite dig this.



    This as well. you seem to have this pretty well developed. And I like the underlying question of "How much of the Dick Grayson we know has come from Bruce and Bruce alone?"
    Thanks I would really like to see this idea done. Plus using his villains needs to be more common.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  12. #942
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I already pitched several ideas for Ric on here, so I want to get back to some pitches involving the real Dick Grayson. I see that the Dick Grayson appreciation thread has cycled back to its monthly hate-on-Blüdhaven routine that has been interrupted somewhat by how distractingly awful Ric Grayson is. So I'm going to pitch yet another excuse to get Dick out of "the Blüd" (though I'd totally be fine with just nuking it again and moving on.)

    Seeley talked in his initial interviews for Nightwing Rebirth about how he viewed "Grayson" metaphorically as Dick's time at college. "Nightwing," he said, would be about him returning from college, and so he did. And he floundered. So I'd like to revisit this idea from a new perspective: one that is also true to the character's history- Dick as a college dropout.

    In this running metaphor, Dick's time as Robin was his outstanding track record in secondary education. He was a rising star in the superhero community. Protege of Batman and leader of the up-and-coming New Teen Titans. He was a hotshot, the standout of a promising rising generation. One day, Abnett wrote, he would lead the Justice League. But then he didn't.

    Instead, he moved to Blüdhaven and fought D-list, street level mooks. This step-down in scale and excitement would be viewed through the lense of Dick dropping out and getting a low-end "Superhero Job." And with this very long explanation out of the way, this is the point at which I would start the story.

    This would be told kind of like Grayson, rather than writing arcs or for trade, the story would be told in three "seasons."

    Season one should detail Dick's disillusionment with his current situation. Dick should be talking with another hero of his relative age who deals with threats larger in scale than what he sees in Blüdhaven. Perhaps Cyborg on the League, perhaps Wally, perhaps Kyle Rayner out in space, perhaps a Titans reunion akin to a high school reunion. But as a result of catching up with the another hero, he realizes that his superheroics are much less exciting than that of his friends and mentors. This conversation inspires a moment of self reflection that will lead him to question the choices he has made as a superhero.

    In a very meta sense, Dick should realize that he was at his most recognizable as Robin. Not wanting to have peaked in high school, he begins to reevaluate why he has anchored himself to Blüdhaven in the first place. But as a hero, Dick would feel guilty abandoning the people of Blüdhaven. He feels paralysed, stuck in place at a dead end job that is unfulfilling. This gives him depression and anxiety which begins to impede his ability to fight crime. Reaching out to Barbara, Wally, and others for advice, he comes to realize that he has no real need to feel loyal to Blüdhaven. His genuine connections are with people in the larger superhero community, and he could save more people and more lives by working superheroics on a larger scale. So Dick decides to move on.

    But how do you just quit protecting a city? There's no legal contract in place, but just leaving with no notice would be rude. There's not much precedent for this in the superhero community, so Dick decides to put in his two-week's notice. He hold's a press conference to say "I quit."

    Season two be the weird, goofy part of the story where the city takes this news like a bad breakup. Some people will try to convince him to stay by showing him how much they love him. Others with take it bitterly and protest and try to drive him out of town. It should be all over the news in Blüdhaven as panels argue in a parody of the classic Frank Miller talking heads. Certain rogues will take this as their last opportunity for revenge and come swinging at him hard. The municipal government will respond with harsh criticism and try to arrest Nightwing for his unlawful vigilantism, despite previously turning a blind eye to it. Everybody is gunning for him. I'd spend a few issues playing with this hostile environment as Dick rides out his last two weeks.

    Season 3 would be Dick's return to "college." I would have him work to develop his experience in a season of one-shots much like season one of Grayson, much like the often proposed "Brave and the Bold" series folks are fond of. Immediately "post breakup," Dick would visit his immediately close friends. The first few issues would be him visiting the likes of Wally, Kory out in space, and finally Bruce, Barbara, and Damian in Gotham, stopping in for advice. Afterwards he should spend time training under different experts from different areas of the DCU. He could train in sparring from Wildcat and Detective Work from the Elongated Man. He could spend an issue trying out different teams and teamups with the Justice League and Spyral.

    After these three seasons of development, I would try to spin Dick out into a new and meaningful direction in the broader DCU, whether it be as a leader on a team or a spy or a solo hero with a focus.

    And IF some writer decides down the line to return Dick to Blüdhaven AGAIN, then they could use this story as the perfect foundation to explore what happens when a superhero protecting a city quits upon his return and how the city has changed.
    Last edited by Pohzee; 05-28-2019 at 11:30 AM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  13. #943
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    I already pitched several ideas for Ric on here, so I want to get back to some pitches involving the real Dick Grayson. I see that the Dick Grayson appreciation thread has cycled back to its monthly hate-on-Blüdhaven routine that has been interrupted somewhat by how distractingly awful Ric Grayson is. So I'm going to pitch yet another excuse to get Dick out of "the Blüd" (though I'd totally be fine with just nuking it again and moving on.)

    Seeley talked in his initial interviews for Nightwing Rebirth about how he viewed "Grayson" metaphorically as Dick's time at college. "Nightwing," he said, would be about him returning from college, and so he did. And he floundered. So I'd like to revisit this idea from a new perspective: one that is also true to the character's history- Dick as a college dropout.

    In this running metaphor, Dick's time as Robin was his outstanding track record in secondary education. He was a rising star in the superhero community. Protege of Batman and leader of the up-and-coming New Teen Titans. He was a hotshot, the standout of a promising rising generation. One day, Abnett wrote, he would lead the Justice League. But then he didn't.

    Instead, he moved to Blüdhaven and fought D-list, street level mooks. This step-down in scale and excitement would be viewed through the lense of Dick dropping out and getting a low-end "Superhero Job." And with this very long explanation out of the way, this is the point at which I would start the story.

    This would be told kind of like Grayson, rather than writing arcs or for trade, the story would be told in three "seasons."

    Season one should detail Dick's disillusionment with his current situation. Dick should be talking with another hero of his relative age who deals with threats larger in scale than what he sees in Blüdhaven. Perhaps Cyborg on the League, perhaps Wally, perhaps Kyle Rayner out in space, perhaps a Titans reunion akin to a high school reunion. But as a result of catching up with the another hero, he realizes that his superheroics are much less exciting than that of his friends and mentors. This conversation inspires a moment of self reflection that will lead him to question the choices he has made as a superhero.

    In a very meta sense, Dick should realize that he was at his most recognizable as Robin. Not wanting to have peaked in high school, he begins to reevaluate why he has anchored himself to Blüdhaven in the first place. But as a hero, Dick would feel guilty abandoning the people of Blüdhaven. He feels paralysed, stuck in place at a dead end job that is unfulfilling. This gives him depression and anxiety which begins to impede his ability to fight crime. Reaching out to Barbara, Wally, and others for advice, he comes to realize that he has no real need to feel loyal to Blüdhaven. His genuine connections are with people in the larger superhero community, and he could save more people and more lives by working superheroics on a larger scale. So Dick decides to move on.

    But how do you just quit protecting a city? There's no legal contract in place, but just leaving with no notice would be rude. There's not much precedent for this in the superhero community, so Dick decides to put in his two-week's notice. He hold's a press conference to say "I quit."

    Season two be the weird, goofy part of the story where the city takes this news like a bad breakup. Some people will try to convince him to stay by showing him how much they love him. Others with take it bitterly and protest and try to drive him out of town. It should be all over the news in Blüdhaven as panels argue in a parody of the classic Frank Miller talking heads. Certain rogues will take this as their last opportunity for revenge and come swinging at him hard. The municipal government will respond with harsh criticism and try to arrest Nightwing for his unlawful vigilantism, despite previously turning a blind eye to it. Everybody is gunning for him. I'd spend a few issues playing with this hostile environment as Dick rides out his last two weeks.

    Season 3 would be Dick's return to "college." I would have him work to develop his experience in a season of one-shots much like season one of Grayson, much like the often proposed "Brave and the Bold" series folks are fond of. Immediately "post breakup," Dick would visit his immediately close friends. The first few issues would be him visiting the likes of Wally, Kory out in space, and finally Bruce, Barbara, and Damian in Gotham, stopping in for advice. Afterwards he should spend time training under different experts from different areas of the DCU. He could train in sparring from Wildcat and Detective Work from the Elongated Man. He could spend an issue trying out different teams and teamups with the Justice League and Spyral.

    After these three seasons of development, I would try to spin Dick out into a new and meaningful direction in the broader DCU, whether it be as a leader on a team or a spy or a solo hero with a focus.

    And IF some writer decides down the line to return Dick to Blüdhaven AGAIN, then they could use this story as the perfect foundation to explore what happens when a superhero protecting a city quits upon his return and how the city has changed.
    I like this idea, but I think something Dick would do instead of holding a press conference or leaving Bludhaven with a two-week notice or otherwise would be to leave someone to take the place as Bludhaven's protector. This doesn't have to be some huge thing but you could get some no name like the Protector to show up for a couple issues or reintroduce Nite-Wing as a Nightwing fanboy who is determined to be like his hero. Instead of stopping him Dick gives him some training and equipment to at least do the job right.

    This opens up the possibility to new connections in Bludhaven itself and can go either way of the new hero being competent or not. Either one opens new story telling opportunities when Dick shows up again at some point.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

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