Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[king81992]

The problem is, is that from interviews and such, it sounds like Bendis has no plans to de-age Jon going forward, and he aged him up so "Clark would feel awful for missing years of his son growing up". Shock value, for short.

Everything that has happened in DC recently has been for shock value, its extremely frustrating. If Bendis doesn't de-age Jon eventually, some other writer will do so.

[Jackalope89]

Everything that has happened in DC recently has been for shock value, its extremely frustrating. If Bendis doesn't de-age Jon eventually, some other writer will do so.

I wasn't happy when, the moment Bendis took over, he shipped both Jon and Lois off to space, and ever since, Lois has been out of character, and I can't shake the feeling that when he brings Jon back, he's using the age-up as an excuse for Jon's new personality.

I'm REALLY hoping that whoever takes over after Bendis, has Jon wake-up, back as a 10 year old, and tell his parents he had the worst nightmare of being sent off and left alone with Jor-El (for "reasons"), randomly becomes a teen, and became a veteran of war. Lois and Clark reassure him that they would never leave him alone like that, and big bro Connor pops in so he and Jon can head to the arcade.

[dropkickjake]

Yeah, I really can't see editorial stripping Damian of the Robin title or how they would even begin to make that make sense in universe. I'd love that aspect though. Get Dick and Damian back together again.

Re: Mar'i, I think the multiverse option is the way to go. This way you have a child with memories of Dick and Kori as her parents. That has more character development potential for Dick and for Mar'i, and probably for Kori as well. In that situation, I think that Dick is more likely to try to become a father to her. I'm also not a huge fan of time travel, and DC already has a precedent for characters getting ripped between universes.

[oasis1313]

Yeah, I really can't see editorial stripping Damian of the Robin title or how they would even begin to make that make sense in universe. I'd love that aspect though. Get Dick and Damian back together again.

You could strip Damian of his title in one panel. Just have Bendis write ol' Bathead stand up and intone, "Timmy is the true son of my heart! He embodies all the perfection and wonder of the universe! Get thee gone hence, bastard child, and let me never glimpse your illegitimate visage again! By the way, check your cape at the door on your way out." Where else can Damian go but to Talia or Dick? The poor child needs a parent figure and Dick would be a lot better at it than Talia.

[Ascended]

Re: Mar'i, I think the multiverse option is the way to go. This way you have a child with memories of Dick and Kori as her parents. That has more character development potential for Dick and for Mar'i, and probably for Kori as well. In that situation, I think that Dick is more likely to try to become a father to her. I'm also not a huge fan of time travel, and DC already has a precedent for characters getting ripped between universes.

So I said a little while ago I was going to ignore studying for finals and give this whole Mar'i thing some thought......well, I actually did do the school thing for the most part this week (stupid responsibilities) but I've got a vague shape of an idea boiling in the back of my head about artificial pocket timelines collapsing and Dick and Kori pulling a daughter they never had out of the doomed reality after a big epic "dr. Who" type of adventure (only with lots more violence).

But on the topic of Mar'i, we've barely discussed her mother. How does Kori fit into things? I can't see her being an absentee mom, even to a kid who isn't technically her's, and how that would impact her and Dick's dynamic is something we haven't really talked about. Nightwing's New Order mini had Kori leave both Dick and their kid but I just don't see it happening. Kori might be mercurial, but not that much.

[dropkickjake]

So I said a little while ago I was going to ignore studying for finals and give this whole Mar'i thing some thought......well, I actually did do the school thing for the most part this week (stupid responsibilities) but I've got a vague shape of an idea boiling in the back of my head about artificial pocket timelines collapsing and Dick and Kori pulling a daughter they never had out of the doomed reality after a big epic "dr. Who" type of adventure (only with lots more violence).

But on the topic of Mar'i, we've barely discussed her mother. How does Kori fit into things? I can't see her being an absentee mom, even to a kid who isn't technically her's, and how that would impact her and Dick's dynamic is something we haven't really talked about. Nightwing's New Order mini had Kori leave both Dick and their kid but I just don't see it happening. Kori might be mercurial, but not that much.

The impact on Dick's preexisting relationships is a huge reason why I think the multiverse option is the way to go. Now we have a situation where Dick and Kori, ex lovers but on good terms, have decided to parent 'their' daughter. Do they do it together? Are they going to move in with each other and try to *be* together again? On a practical matter, who should even get custody here? Then we have Dick's own thoughts on being a father. Is he destined to follow Bruce's example? Can he, who has never had a *normal* life or family, provide a loving environment for Mar'i? What does shared custody look like for these two?

Then there are his external relationships. Babs, for example, I am absolutely here for the awkward and hilarious scenes that could lead to. With Mar'i around Damians age, how does he react to the way this changes his relationship with his big brother?

And here's where a few pieces really start to fall together into a theme: Family.

There are a good few pages in this thread about bringing in Rose Wilson. Personally I'd like to see her show up in Bludhaven because someone has taken out a hit on Nightwing and she wants to help protect him. Why? Because her actual family is so broken and dysfunctional, but Dick always treated her the way a brother should while he was training her. She's there because, in a way, Nightwing is the closest thing to a loving family member she has ever known.

We didn't get much discussion going, but I do think the idea of Kathy Webb becoming a mother figure to Dick as he runs Spyral has merit. Juxtaposing the way she "parents" with the way Bruce does could be interesting. And it falls yet again in this theme of family.


Damian, Rose, Mar'i and Kori, Kathy, and Bruce are all supporting/cameo characters around which we can ask "What does it mean to be a family?" Dick's family unit is the farthest thing from 'normal,' but that doesn't make it dysfunctional. This isn't a brand new theme, but its something that can tie these characters together.

[Ascended]

Yknow, I hadn't given any thought at all to how this impacts Babs and her relationship with Dick. Good call, that needs to be considered as well.

I already have a pretty good idea of how Damian would react to Mar'i though......and I think it'd be tons of fun to see him dealing with his first crush. I think Damian would take one look at her and react much like Dick did with Kori back in the day.

The real question for me as far as that goes is how Jon Kent reacts to Mar'i......because I have no interest in a love triangle or seeing those two fight over a girl, but I could easily see it going that way and it does have that "YA appeal" you see in all those novels....which might be good business even if I dont really like the idea of putting a wedge between the Super Sons, no matter how minor.

I suppose a big part of that would depend on how much older Jon will be when he gets back from space, and how the trip has affected him.

[Agent Z]

You could strip Damian of his title in one panel. Just have Bendis write ol' Bathead stand up and intone, "Timmy is the true son of my heart! He embodies all the perfection and wonder of the universe! Get thee gone hence, bastard child, and let me never glimpse your illegitimate visage again! By the way, check your cape at the door on your way out." Where else can Damian go but to Talia or Dick? The poor child needs a parent figure and Dick would be a lot better at it than Talia.

Please tell us how you feel about Tim. I don't think you've made that clear.

[Jackalope89]

Yknow, I hadn't given any thought at all to how this impacts Babs and her relationship with Dick. Good call, that needs to be considered as well.

I already have a pretty good idea of how Damian would react to Mar'i though......and I think it'd be tons of fun to see him dealing with his first crush. I think Damian would take one look at her and react much like Dick did with Kori back in the day.

The real question for me as far as that goes is how Jon Kent reacts to Mar'i......because I have no interest in a love triangle or seeing those two fight over a girl, but I could easily see it going that way and it does have that "YA appeal" you see in all those novels....which might be good business even if I dont really like the idea of putting a wedge between the Super Sons, no matter how minor.

I suppose a big part of that would depend on how much older Jon will be when he gets back from space, and how the trip has affected him.

I'd say Jon has Kathy already (alien refugee back on the farm). But, Jon may yet be too young to see girls as much beyond friends anyway (yes I reject Bendis run).

[Ascended]

I do like Kathy but I dont think we'll ever see much of her, the farm, or Hamilton county again.

Besides, its not like any potential love interest for Jon *has* to be Kathy, just because she's the first girl he interacted with.

You're right, at ten years old Jon should barely be out of the "girls have cooties" stage, and I wouldnt want to see any kind of love triangle with him and Damian in any case. But we all know that if we were in a situation where DC could do it, they would. And given how young adult novels love their cheap love triangles I can't say it would be a horrible choice, from a business perspective. That kind of crap appeals to a certain audience....and if that audience is following the Super Sons, it'd be hard to resist the low hanging fruit of a Mar'i-Jon-Damian triangle.

Now, I would totally support Damian having a crush on Mar'i. I love how that dynamic could play out, given Damian's relationship with Dick. And in Kingdom Come Mar'i was also dating Bruce's son Ibn, so it parallels both that story as well as Dick's early relationship with Kori, back when he was still Robin. I think it works. But Jon, for my enjoyment anyway, should never be in the middle of it.

[Godlike13]

Damian’s taken, he just doesn’t know it. Damian/Maps forever

[oasis1313]

If Dick is gonna hang out with his half-alien daughter Mar'i, he should stay with her mom and make a family out of it.

[king81992]

If Dick is gonna hang out with his half-alien daughter Mar'i, he should stay with her mom and make a family out of it.

This would be a great solution but DC wants to keep the Barbara, Starfire and Dick shipping wars going. There are only three solutions: Dick x Barbara, Dick x Starfire and Barbara x Dick x Starfire. DC won't choose option 1 or 2 because either way a fanbase gets alienated(despite DC constantly alienating their fans) and option 3 is way too controversial to do(despite DC having done even more controversial things over the years).

[Ascended]

If Dick is gonna hang out with his half-alien daughter Mar'i, he should stay with her mom and make a family out of it.

Now, ya'll know that between Babs and Kori, I'm Team Kori all the way (well, you probably dont know that, but I do). However, I wouldn't want to see them just jump back into a relationship immediately. It's been a long, long time since they were together and suddenly being back in a relationship, even to raise a daughter, wouldnt feel organic. But they dont have to be in a relationship together to raise a healthy, happy little girl who knows that her parents love her and each other, even if they don't love each other the way traditional mommies and daddies do.

So what Id do is have them raise Mar'i together, but not just jump back into a relationship. I think it'd be interesting to see DC explore a dynamic where the parents aren't together romantically, but are still raising their kid together. Dick and Kori still get along just fine, and I can see them raising their daughter without feeling like they need to sleep in the same bed. Non-traditional relationships aren't all that unusual these days, so why not take a look at that? At least for a little bit.

And over time maybe they rekindle that old flame (it seems likely, given this hypothetical situation) or maybe they don't, but it'd be nice to see them be a part of each other's lives again. And while their situation is evolving you can use that to spin some fun stories about the other women in Dick's life adjusting to that new reality, Dick and Kori adjusting to it and finding out where the limits are, etc.

My point is, if and when Dick and Kori get back together I want it to happen naturally and organically and be built on stronger stuff than "we have a kid so we must be together" or "we're together because nostalgia."

[oasis1313]

This would be a great solution but DC wants to keep the Barbara, Starfire and Dick shipping wars going. There are only three solutions: Dick x Barbara, Dick x Starfire and Barbara x Dick x Starfire. DC won't choose option 1 or 2 because either way a fanbase gets alienated(despite DC constantly alienating their fans) and option 3 is way too controversial to do(despite DC having done even more controversial things over the years).

Is that Babs versus Kory schtick selling any funnybooks for 'em?