Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[WonderNight]

Keep going im enjoying this. All of this is helping me see why dc views nightwing as just an overgrown sidekick and dont invest in him. They'll just give it to batman.

[Aahz]

He used to be close with Supergirl too post crisis, but in the New 52 they have no relationship at all and haven't even interacted.

But Supergirl is anyway tradionally closer with Batgirl.

When you take it all into account I think only Batman and Superman have more connections, but that makes sense given Batman, Superman and Dick are the 3 most published characters in the DCU.

I think most of the other Fab5 are similarly connected. Wally was for example (on top of being a Titan) in several incarnations of the Justice League, has the Flash Family and is via Jay and Jesse connected with the JSA and vie Bart with the YJ/TT. And Donna connections with the Lanters since she was a member of the Darkstars and and daed Kyle Rayner.

The old JSA Members had also lots of connections (Wildcat trained a lot of heros).

Barbara Gordon was as Oracle connected with almost every team (she was even a member of the Suicide Squad).

Black Canary was a member the JLA, the JSA, the BoP, and and has a strong connection with Green Arrow.

And for example Atom Smasher, Jade, Obsidian and Jesse Quick have also been in many different teams and have close family ties with Golden Age Characters.

[WonderNight]

Dick has never had more connections than Bruce or others. He just has better social skills and grace than them, is the better leader. In fact he had those connections thanks to being with Bruce. Even the Silver Age TT is due to them being sidekicks. And for all the fun Pre crisis adventures with the JL, that's also Bruce's blessings. The Spy thing was also from Bruce. The NTT is the only team that's "his" That's why it's silly to complain "why must everything Dick achieve go back to Bruce" or "The outsiders don't count bc they are Bruce's" I am as angry as the next fan that Dick never keep anything to himself and always lose attributes to others but to say he's spread his wings farther than Bruce is a stretch. Even Dick knows that everything he has is thanks to Bruce. Even in Infinite Crisis, i don't think Nightwing dying himself would impact others much as in HIS connections to them tbh. He never can die, because it would impact Batman the most, who impacted the DCU.

Again we don't even need him doing things that's "more" than Bruce or divorce him from the family. All he needs is not be fodder and props, which he is now even to other Robins.

But he does need to be more independent from the family because as you said everything about him comes from and revolves around batman. So why then would dc not continue to use him as fodder and props for batman. I mean he's still just a sidekick so what other purpose does he have?

[nhienphan2808]

The thing is i don't believe Dick himself WANTS to be bigger than Batman or to be more connected. His only true friends are the Fab five. All others are just acquaintances that he will sooon forget and moves on from. In his heart he knows he's still that circuit boy Batman brought in. Hell even in a book like New Order, the reason he embark on a global mission was because Bruce died. I believe DC would care more for him, even if a little bit, if he WANTS to be bigger than the batfam , or if he's still with NTT and Kory. Like Babs wants to be bigger and it shows she could as Oracle. I would put him in a World's finest or Brave and the Bold type book like pre-crisis Bruce, but eventually Dick himself would again, give it all back to Batman and moves on from those new partners.
What he lacks ever since his creation was a sense of "home", a foundation of his own to come back to other than being a sidekick. Gotham was not his (while it's Jason's and Babs's as well as Bruce's) , Bludhaven is dead horse, and his most notable partner is Bruce's son. Even Tim is more solid in being Robin than him due too Bruce being a bitch. His relationships failed because Bruce is a bitch. For this reason you cant expect him to really have a "direction" that lasts long. You lack a foundation you lack stability and longevity. He could be anything, team up with whoever, do anything from flips to leading aliens, but he would never, and can never settle down. You set him in a new book new mission, and that will last 30 issues at most, and then batfam all over again.

But better than nothing. Let him do everything he could. We just need good books.And Bruce not being a bitch.

[Badou]

But Supergirl is anyway tradionally closer with Batgirl.

For a time it was Steph, but that has been lost too with the reboot. I didn't mean they were best friends but there was an established dynamic that no longer exists.

I think most of the other Fab5 are similarly connected. Wally was for example (on top of being a Titan) in several incarnations of the Justice League, has the Flash Family and is via Jay and Jesse connected with the JSA and vie Bart with the YJ/TT. And Donna connections with the Lanters since she was a member of the Darkstars and and daed Kyle Rayner.

I think only Roy and Wally would be on Dick's level from the Fab 5, as both have been members of the JLA like you said and like Dick have connections in other franchises like how Wally and Dick both shared close ties with Jesse. The two of them are also some of the most well connected heroes as well. It is when you take into account all of Dick's history he passes them. From the Golden Age to the New 52/Rebith.

Though people kind of forget that until Wally was railroaded by DC in favor of Barry it was him and not Dick that was looked at as the most successful legacy hero. He did something that Dick will never be able to do and surpassed his mentor. I remember the old lists of top heroes places like IGN put out and they had Wally ahead of Dick on them consistently.

[nhienphan2808]

Though people kind of forget that until Wally was railroaded by DC in favor of Barry it was him and not Dick that was looked at as the most successful legacy hero. He did something that Dick will never be able to do and surpassed his mentor. I remember the old lists of top heroes places like IGN put out and they had Wally ahead of Dick on them consistently.

Barry literally dying and is all around a more healthy person/family to Wally than Bruce to Dick both helped.

[WonderNight]

The thing is i don't believe Dick himself WANTS to be bigger than Batman or to be more connected. His only true friends are the Fab five. All others are just acquaintances that he will sooon forget and moves on from. In his heart he knows he's still that circuit boy Batman brought in. Hell even in a book like New Order, the reason he embark on a global mission was because Bruce died. I believe DC would care more for him, even if a little bit, if he WANTS to be bigger than the batfam , or if he's still with NTT and Kory. Like Babs wants to be bigger and it shows she could as Oracle. I would put him in a World's finest or Brave and the Bold type book like pre-crisis Bruce, but eventually Dick himself would again, give it all back to Batman and moves on from those new partners.
What he lacks ever since his creation was a sense of "home", a foundation of his own to come back to other than being a sidekick. Gotham was not his (while it's Jason's and Babs's as well as Bruce's) , Bludhaven is dead horse, and his most notable partner is Bruce's son. Even Tim is more solid in being Robin than him due too Bruce being a bitch. His relationships failed because Bruce is a bitch. For this reason you cant expect him to really have a "direction" that lasts long. You lack a foundation you lack stability and longevity. He could be anything, team up with whoever, do anything from flips to leading aliens, but he would never, and can never settle down. You set him in a new book new mission, and that will last 30 issues at most, and then batfam all over again.

But better than nothing. Let him do everything he could. We just need good books.And Bruce not being a bitch.

So you just the reason why nightwing is irrelevant to dc and why they use him as fodder and a prop. His nothing with out batman! The nightwing mantel has a big problem, the whole point of dick becoming nightwing is to get OUT from under batman, to be his own man, to be more independent. So what is dc currently doing with nightwing? They have him under batman's editors, with batman's logo and not his on his book, the current villain in his book belongs to batman, his main comic LI belongs to batman, his own city has to be just like batman's, his storys has to be just like batman's which is why characters like starfire dont fit in dick's world anymore. Everthing about nightwing is Batman batman and more batman, you know the thing the nightwing mantel's purpose is to have him grown beyond. Know wonder dc sees him as redunant with batman and just uses him and fodder and a prop for batman.

Just look at all this beautiful awesome heroines in the greater dcu who's in and out of limbo and dont have a home like vixen, fire, ice, power girl, zatanna etc. What dick cant date one of them? Give one of them a home in his book? They couldn't add to his cast? Help connect him to the dcu? Couldn't build something together?...NOPE because they done belong to batman, so we get more dumb wast of time and money wiill they wont they babs. You know because batman.

[dropkickjake]

Oh cool. This has become a "complain about DC" thread too. I was hoping we'd have a second.

/s

[TravelerInTheDark]

Just look at all this beautiful awesome heroines in the greater dcu who's in and out of limbo and dont have a home like vixen, fire, ice, power girl, zatanna etc. What dick cant date one of them? Give one of them a home in his book? They couldn't add to his cast? Help connect him to the dcu? Couldn't build something together?...NOPE because they done belong to batman, so we get more dumb wast of time and money wiill they wont they babs. You know because batman.

LOL yes! "Dick Dates the DC Universe". We need a book like this! And why stop there? Have him sleep with Catwoman! Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and so on and so on. And they can like date and fight crime together, something sexy and fun and exciting. It would make for good reading I think. Something unique instead of just the same old crap about being broken down and built back up over and over again. Give the boy something good for once!

[Starrius]

So you just the reason why nightwing is irrelevant to dc and why they use him as fodder and a prop. His nothing with out batman! The nightwing mantel has a big problem, the whole point of dick becoming nightwing is to get OUT from under batman, to be his own man, to be more independent. So what is dc currently doing with nightwing? They have him under batman's editors, with batman's logo and not his on his book, the current villain in his book belongs to batman, his main comic LI belongs to batman, his own city has to be just like batman's, his storys has to be just like batman's which is why characters like starfire dont fit in dick's world anymore. Everthing about nightwing is Batman batman and more batman, you know the thing the nightwing mantel's purpose is to have him grown beyond. Know wonder dc sees him as redunant with batman and just uses him and fodder and a prop for batman.

Just look at all this beautiful awesome heroines in the greater dcu who's in and out of limbo and dont have a home like vixen, fire, ice, power girl, zatanna etc. What dick cant date one of them? Give one of them a home in his book? They couldn't add to his cast? Help connect him to the dcu? Couldn't build something together?...NOPE because they done belong to batman, so we get more dumb wast of time and money wiill they wont they babs. You know because batman.

so Nightwing is pretty much Batman-lite

[Gurz]

So you just the reason why nightwing is irrelevant to dc and why they use him as fodder and a prop. His nothing with out batman! The nightwing mantel has a big problem, the whole point of dick becoming nightwing is to get OUT from under batman, to be his own man, to be more independent. So what is dc currently doing with nightwing? They have him under batman's editors, with batman's logo and not his on his book, the current villain in his book belongs to batman, his main comic LI belongs to batman, his own city has to be just like batman's, his storys has to be just like batman's which is why characters like starfire dont fit in dick's world anymore. Everthing about nightwing is Batman batman and more batman, you know the thing the nightwing mantel's purpose is to have him grown beyond. Know wonder dc sees him as redunant with batman and just uses him and fodder and a prop for batman.

Just look at all this beautiful awesome heroines in the greater dcu who's in and out of limbo and dont have a home like vixen, fire, ice, power girl, zatanna etc. What dick cant date one of them? Give one of them a home in his book? They couldn't add to his cast? Help connect him to the dcu? Couldn't build something together?...NOPE because they done belong to batman, so we get more dumb wast of time and money wiill they wont they babs. You know because batman.

First of all, i would drop the s--- out of Nighwing if they brought in larger DCU. Look at Daredevil, you can be very succesful as being Batman lite. A character trained by Batman will ofcourse be Batman lite. What you want is nonsense, go back to your New Teen Titans grandpa or something. lol Nightwing should be street level in his own side of the world, time to time interacting and teaming up with Batman. That's it.

[byrd156]

I was Talking about how he was written for the main part of the continuity and not just the very end.
And even in his time as Batman he didn't had many team ups with other heroes I can remember, and his Incarnation of the Justice League was also not that impressive, I meant it was basically just him, Donna, Congorilla, Starman, Supergirl and Jade (I mean seriously and guys are complaining about him being only on Titans).

Plus the JSA was teaming up with them for a good amount of stories.

[oasis1313]

LOL yes! "Dick Dates the DC Universe". We need a book like this! And why stop there? Have him sleep with Catwoman! Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and so on and so on. And they can like date and fight crime together, something sexy and fun and exciting. It would make for good reading I think. Something unique instead of just the same old crap about being broken down and built back up over and over again. Give the boy something good for once!

World's Finest--Piece of Azz.

[Starrius]

First of all, i would drop the s--- out of Nighwing if they brought in larger DCU. Look at Daredevil, you can be very succesful as being Batman lite. A character trained by Batman will ofcourse be Batman lite. What you want is nonsense, go back to your New Teen Titans grandpa or something. lol Nightwing should be street level in his own side of the world, time to time interacting and teaming up with Batman. That's it.

You can make your point and state your opinions without talking down to the person

[Jackalope89]

The Adventures of Big Brother Dick!

There are many young heroes emerging all over the world, but not all of them have a supportive big brother to be a positive influence on them. And so, Dick Grayson, the former first Robin, part-time Nightwing, and older Brother to a bevy of Bat Kids is determined to the big brother to these new heroes! With the support of his fiance, Starfire, and his youngest brother Damian, the trio set out to mentor and guide these new heroes, many of them metahumans. What sort of adventures will these three be on?

Stay tuned next week, same Nightwing time, same Nightwing channel!