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  1. #946
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Been a few months since anyone posted here.....but I miss this thread and was wondering if anyone had any new ideas?

    Pohzee's "bad breakup with Bludhaven" idea is a lot of fun, and in considering how Dick finds replacements to "take his job" I immediately thought of the fake Nightwings in the current book. If Dick is going to leave Bludhaven he could take those four idiots and train them, turn them into a functioning unit that's actually capable of protecting the city without him. I mean, in this scenario we're unlikely to see Bludhaven again so there's not much worry of the fakewings showing up a lot right? They'd just be out in Bludhaven, off panel and out of mind, but doing something worthwhile.

    On a quasi-but-not-really related note, going back to the idea dropkick and I have tossed around about Dick running Haly's Casino and the idea of Dick being a super spy while also "pretending" to *just* be Bludhaven's protector (the triple ID idea I had ages ago).....the fake Nightwings would work really well there too. I know everyone is anxious to forget them as soon as possible, but if Dick were running around the globe doing super cool spy stuff while maintaining the act of just being another hero with a city to protect.....well, the fakewings would work really well for that. Put them all in matching Nightwing suits with some Spyral hypnos tech to disguise their features and they'd be a viable "neighborhood watch" for Bludhaven while Dick's away, and no one realizes that the real Nightwing is out of town most of the time. They might not be capable of dealing with a major threat but they could handle the drug dealers and other run-of-the-mill criminals while Dick's doing the spy thing.

    Might even be fun to make sure the fakewings are not in on the real secret; they have no idea Nightwing is gone half the time, no idea he's a part of Spyral (or whatever spy group we end up with after Bendis' Leviathan), they just think they're his support team, his Robins. And of course, should the secret ever get out you've got a great source for some fun drama and stories.
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  2. #947
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Have you seen the cover for nightwing #66? He becomes a talon.

    So I'd have his new mission be to go around the world to stop and shut down the court's globe network's and right the wrongs of his ancestry. A nightwing globetrotting around the dcu solo book with guests team ups.

    P.s I love nightwing but I feel for him to reach his full potential so an I.P he needs to become more of a main dcu character and less of Batman side character. That's just me.
    Last edited by WonderNight; 07-29-2019 at 06:43 PM.

  3. #948
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I did see that cover in the solicits. Seems an interesting turn of events right now. Might even pick the issue up, just to see how it goes (not expecting it to be good but I need a dose of Nightwing!).

    I think the idea of Dick becoming a Talon has been brought up in this thread before.....I dunno. I'm all about the Court and its Talons becoming part of Dick's rogues gallery but I'm loathe to see Dick change his codename on anything resembling a permanent basis. I doubt that's what this is, and it'd be better than this Ric crap if it were, but still. Nightwing has been a growing IP since the NTT days and changing to Talon is just going to set him back. We're at the point now where Dick-as-Nightwing can move merchandise of his own and get solid appearances in larger media......and I fear "Talon" would undo a lot of the brand recognition he's built.
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  4. #949
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    So I'd have his new mission be to go around the world to stop and shut down the court's globe network's and right the wrongs of his ancestry.
    He already did that in Rebirth first arc. He got the list of The Parliament members and gave to Spyral so they can take them down, but Raptor copied the list and sold it to Kobra who began assassinating them. Don't know if any of them survive though.

  5. #950
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    I got a question, if he doesn't get the Talon powers. Does it still count as being a Talon?

  6. #951
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Same job, same responsibilities, so.....yeah? He'd still count as a Talon.....just wouldnt be as good at it?

    I dunno. Good question.
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  7. #952
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I got a question, if he doesn't get the Talon powers. Does it still count as being a Talon?
    Feel like he'd be a Talon in name only without the powers.So... kinda?

  8. #953
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    If The Court says he's Talon, he's Talon.

    Besides they're gonna have to refill his tooth first, and the Talon Labyrinth trial takes at least a week.

    So maybe the story's still part of the trial. Show that he can beat up his friends the Nightwings, and then they start the procedure.

    ...Batman's gonna be pissed when he finds out but this will prompt him to cure Dick, finally.

  9. #954
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    But isn't that kind of lame though. With out the full Talon treatment it’s just new clothes. Renegade 2.0.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 07-30-2019 at 09:35 AM.

  10. #955
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    But isn't that kind of lame though. With out the full Talon treatment it’s just new clothes. Renegade 2.0.
    That's how I feel about the whole Talon idea. It's been done, I don't see why people really want to see Dick as a Talon.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  11. #956
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    For me, it's not that I want to see Dick as a Talon so much as I want to see the Court built up as part of his rogues gallery. He can share them with Bruce if need be, but this is very much a villain group built for Dick. Lots of fun stuff you could explore here. And the fact that it's sorta-kinda vaguely akin to the spy stuff I miss from Grayson doesn't hurt.

    As for the YotV Talon thing......whatever, nearly anything would be better than Ric. Not something I have high hopes for (same people behind the scenes = same result) and I definitely dont need it to be a permanent thing, but I always say I'm willing to give new directions a chance. So I'll flip through the issue when it its, and if it looks passable I'll give it an issue and see where it goes.
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  12. #957
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I think my biggest problem with the Court of Owls in regards to being part of Dick's rogue gallery is how they were first used. Snyder built them in his story around Bruce and Gotham. Bruce is the one they wanted and the one that drove the whole Owls story. So they will never feel like they are Nightwing villains and more just him borrowing them from Bruce and Gotham. Then the Owls suddenly caring about Dick out of nowhere where he is suddenly this important figure to them they have to have doesn't make sense given the original story where he was just going to be another nameless solider for them. I mean it is at least better than that time they tried to have Two Face be Dick's big rogue which was odd.

    But still, it never feels completely right to me. The Parliament stuff in the Rebirth Nightwing run I did not enjoy and I liked that Seeley was smart enough to move away from that quickly. That feels like it was a story editorial wanted him to do rather than something he himself would have planned by himself.

    But I guess even if I am not super high on the Owls stuff I shouldn't complain if it leads to something from Snyder again and away from the Ric crap. Although I think that The Last Knight story he is working on is going to be independent from all this. So I just don't feel like there is any plan in place and it is just DC, editorial, and Jurgens doing a story that requires the least amount of effort which is just bringing the Owls back again for the 3rd time now.
    Last edited by Badou; 07-31-2019 at 08:27 PM.

  13. #958
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    But isn't that kind of lame though. With out the full Talon treatment it’s just new clothes. Renegade 2.0.
    Yes, but with the full Talon treatment they have to figure out a way to bring Dick back from the cryo-undead state

    Wait, I just remember. William Cobb wasn't given the full Talon treatment originally because the technology didn't exist. The original Talons were all living humans. It's only after Mr. Freeze developed his technology in the modern-day that The Court can revive the Talons.

    So all Talons don't have to be undead to be Talons.

  14. #959
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I'm torn about the Court of Owls and what they mean to Dick, but not for the reasons most seem to be. Of course I think they would be more compelling if they were introduced for DickBats as they were supposed to be. But he still heavily featured in the actual story and I still enjoyed his enrollment in that. Despite its connection to Batman, I still think he was integral enough to the original story that it doesn't feel as though he is poaching from Batman's rogues a la Two Face. Its even better than Blockbuster in that regard really.

    But where I am torn is really on the fundamental changes to the origins of the character. Like yeah the Court was cool and have a cool aesthetic. There's even the Owl/Nightwing connection that King brought up in Robin war that's neat. I got more seriously into comics monthly for the first time with the CoO and so I thought that the whole Nightwing thing was awesome. But over time, I've become really sick of the Snyder/Tynion trope of retconning villains into heroes pasts. Most notably, I think that their changes to Batwoman have completely ruined her character by destroying her origins and independence. And its kinda the same deal for Nightwing. Having this dark force in his past really casts his life in an entirely different light. His escape from the Court overshadows his happy circus life that was taken from him and shifts his story from overcoming tragedy to escaping it.

    And I know this will sound wild to people on here who like to play up Dick's swashbuckling attitude, but it also kinda ruins his relatability. Dick was created as a surrogate for a younger audience to relate to, and as I kid growing up, I definitely did. And I thinking that removing this relatability for this massive coincidence and conspiracy that makes his history hyper-connected really takes away more than it adds to his time as Robin.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  15. #960
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    The problem with the court is anyway that it has no clear goal, was destroyed multiple times already and that the only prominent members are the Talons, who are just henchmen.

    Untill some writers actually put in some work to flash the court out, and all the other writers stick with it, the CoO isn't really an interesting antagonist.

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