Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[dropkickjake]

I dunno what this "joint idea" stuff is. As far as I'm aware, that was your baby all the way and all the rest of us have done is contribute some ideas to it.

I mean, if you ever go pro and use the idea by all means give me credit for my part. Better yet, give me your editor's number so I can get a job too!

Eh, I've said it a dozen times I'm sure. They best ideas come in community. I may have come up with Haly's Casino, but I only thought of it in the framework of the triple life that you introduced.

The Outsiders could be a good team for Dick, but I dunno if they really have all that much brand power left to them. I'd be fine with it, don't get me wrong, but would it be *that* big a benefit v. a new team name?

It wouldn't be a massive benefit, but the brand recognition might be good. Though, it also has its own history as "Batman's team." A fresh start might be better.

It is an interesting idea. It'd definitely work with Dick's history and character really well.

There are also definitely strengths to having a sidekick be a brand new character coming from Dick's world rather than a preexisting Bat or Super. Dick not needing to borrow big names in order for them to stick would speak to him being an A lister.

[Ascended]

Eh, I've said it a dozen times I'm sure. They best ideas come in continuity. I may have come up with Haly's Casino, but I only thought of it in the framework of the triple life that you introduced.

Okay, if that's how you wanna do it, I'll expect that phone call from your editor when you go pro.

For real. Have him call him.

It wouldn't be a massive benefit, but the brand recognition might be good. Though, it also has its own history as "Batman's team." A fresh start might be better.

Yeah, kinda "six of one, half dozen of the other" innit?

I think it'd be a solid choice depending on who the roster was and what their MO is. But I've never really been all that into the Outsiders so I've got a natural inclination to be pretty meh on the team.

There are also definitely strengths to having a sidekick be a brand new character coming from Dick's world rather than a preexisting Bat or Super. Dick not needing to borrow big names in order for them to stick would speak to him being an A lister.

Dude, in my heart, I totally hate the idea of a new character. Dick has so many ties to so many people, and some of them would fit real nicely into a sidekick role and aren't being used at all.....but I think a fresh, new character with a new name is kinda what it would *have* to be, if the goal was making Dick Grayson stand on his own as a franchise (with a toe or two still in Gotham, he'll never completely lose those ties and never should) and be a big(ger) deal in the wider DCU. It'd have to be something that belonged solely to him, not borrowed from Bruce or Uncle Clark or Titans' tower. But I still kinda hate it because it means not using Rose or Damian or Jon or whoever.

[byrd156]

While supervising the TTs is something he could do, and wouldn’t be bad side action, I don’t think it’s enough meat for a full on direction for him.

I'd really like something like this. Shift Dick more in Titans territory instead of his own space outside of the bat-books.

[oasis1313]

I'd really like to see Batman and the Outsiders become Nightwing and the Outsiders--except don't allow the writer to create new characters he'll fall in love with over the "bread-and-butter" character who is the one selling the book. Or maybe have Dick lead the Justice League Silent Ops or Advance Team or something like that. A full-bore team of acknowledged adults who aren't subject to having the plug pulled on them by the "big boys."

[nhienphan2808]

Any old character at this rate would just give Bruce more control in the long term. Damian is over being Dicks kid anyway. He would be just his brother, come to help once in a while. He’s also Bruce’s son. Even Rose is not FROM Dicks world. I want the sidekick to be his and only his , belongs to him the way he belongs to Bruce, and since a blood child will be made from another trying romance, best it be found family all over a gain. After all the CoO was originally Dicks story.

[dropkickjake]

Any old character at this rate would just give Bruce more control in the long term. Damian is over being Dicks kid anyway. He would be just his brother, come to help once in a while. He’s also Bruce’s son. Even Rose is not FROM Dicks world. I want the sidekick to be his and only his , belongs to him the way he belongs to Bruce, and since a blood child will be made from another trying romance, best it be found family all over a gain. After all the CoO was originally Dicks story.

Yeah I think this makes sense. I personally love the idea of Damian and Stephanie moving to Bludhaven and letting that corner of the world be a little remnant of the Batman Reborn era. I also think that Dick taking in Lor Zod could make SO MUCH sense. However, a character coming from Dick's own world would be important. I'd say an international circus kid that has been groomed and rescued from that city's court would fit well. If Dick is running Haly's casino, he'd have a great home and cover for the rescued talon without needing to full on adopt them. The Talon stuff could give them some low level super powers (regeneration was the big one I think), which would remove the "why is he endangering kids" question. If CC Haly were retconned to be alive, he could take care of the newbie.

I'd say there is still a good shout for Lor Zod seeing his parents for who they are, becoming horrified of his own potential for evil, and somehow voluntarily depowering (down to like captain america levels or so) himself and going into hiding at the circus. Dick could train him and teach him his potential for good as well. There's a Nightwing family for you- Nightwing, Flamebird, and Talon.

[dropkickjake]

I should say about my Nightwing, Flamebird, and Talon (Talonness? Lady Talon?) idea/pitch: Both sidekicks would be low level meta with enhanced durability and strength for Lor Zod and regeneration/enhanced quickness for Talon. This allows them to be kid sidekicks while sidestepping the child soldier/ endangering children complaint. It also should be used to show that Dick is used to metas, both fighting with and against them.

Also, I'd probably make Talon a Syrian refugee in munich with the circus there. And she'd be a girl. Balances out the Nightwing family.


And as far as Rose goes, I think you could still use her in the Spyral half of Dick's life.

[Ascended]

I should say about my Nightwing, Flamebird, and Talon (Talonness? Lady Talon?) idea/pitch: Both sidekicks would be low level meta with enhanced durability and strength for Lor Zod and regeneration/enhanced quickness for Talon. This allows them to be kid sidekicks while sidestepping the child soldier/ endangering children complaint. It also should be used to show that Dick is used to metas, both fighting with and against them.

Also, I'd probably make Talon a Syrian refugee in munich with the circus there. And she'd be a girl. Balances out the Nightwing family.

And as far as Rose goes, I think you could still use her in the Spyral half of Dick's life.

Ah, just keep it at "Talon" I think. We're past the point where a female character needs "Lady" "Ms" or whatever in their name. We can still do it (Kamala Khan says hi, right?), but I don't think we *have* to, and "Talon" is such a strong name, adding anything to it would just dilute the strength of it, I think.

You know.....if you want an original character from Dick's world and we're looking at metahumans.........what about a refugee, not from Syria (I love the idea though!) but from Tamaran? Given Dick's ties to Starfire I feel like we could maybe get away with "claiming" Tamaran as part of Dick's corner of the DCU.....maybe.

Rose could still totally be tied to Spyral, or run security for Haly's Casino (and help Dick out on the occasional mission).

[oasis1313]

Starfire could show up on Dick's doorstep and say, "Who's yer baby-mama?"

[nhienphan2808]

This sidekick doesn’t need to be a circus brat nor they have to be in Bludhaven. DIck got wanderer blood in him so I can see him just here and there. That’s the point of a child , giving him an anchor and something to focus on when he’s on the road or in an adventures regarding the Court. He was alone so he might crave stability, a child will give him that whatever he does. Maybe he rescues the brainwashed talon child and feels the need to adopt it and teach it as his own.

[oasis1313]

It's tough to adopt kids nowadays. Dick is a single man with no money and no job--won't look good on an adoption application.

[dropkickjake]

Ah, just keep it at "Talon" I think. We're past the point where a female character needs "Lady" "Ms" or whatever in their name. We can still do it (Kamala Khan says hi, right?), but I don't think we *have* to, and "Talon" is such a strong name, adding anything to it would just dilute the strength of it, I think.

You know.....if you want an original character from Dick's world and we're looking at metahumans.........what about a refugee, not from Syria (I love the idea though!) but from Tamaran? Given Dick's ties to Starfire I feel like we could maybe get away with "claiming" Tamaran as part of Dick's corner of the DCU.....maybe.

Rose could still totally be tied to Spyral, or run security for Haly's Casino (and help Dick out on the occasional mission).

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion a few hours after posting it. Also, her design could be heavily influenced by that beautiful Dick-as-a-talon page from Nightwing 29 (2011).

A Tamarran refugee could be a good way to deal with the same themes without being quite as on the nose.

Yeah, plenty of ways to give Dick a new character as a sidekick while still being able to incoprperate people like Rose, the Skull girls, et c.

This sidekick doesn’t need to be a circus brat nor they have to be in Bludhaven. DIck got wanderer blood in him so I can see him just here and there. That’s the point of a child , giving him an anchor and something to focus on when he’s on the road or in an adventures regarding the Court. He was alone so he might crave stability, a child will give him that whatever he does. Maybe he rescues the brainwashed talon child and feels the need to adopt it and teach it as his own.

It's tough to adopt kids nowadays. Dick is a single man with no money and no job--won't look good on an adoption application.

Yeah, I cant put my finger on exactly why, but there is something about Dick adopting a kid that sits wrong with me (beyond the obvious practical difficulty).

[astro@work]

It's tough to adopt kids nowadays. Dick is a single man with no money and no job--won't look good on an adoption application.

As "Ric" he also doesn't seem to bathe anymore, so the adoption interview isn't going to go well...

[oasis1313]

As "Ric" he also doesn't seem to bathe anymore, so the adoption interview isn't going to go well...

Maybe he'll go into the interview with a rope around his shoulders and soot/grease rubbed on his face--he'll score some points for sure.

[Ascended]

A Tamarran refugee could be a good way to deal with the same themes without being quite as on the nose.

It'd also keep the character from being dated.

I mean, right now there's Syrian refugees everywhere and its a issue that demands commentary. But in ten, twenty years? Might not make sense.

You could keep tweaking the origin, shifting the sidekick from being Syrian to whatever nation is currently experiencing a mass exodus, but that's going to have deeper repercussions on the character than, say, Tony Stark being wounded in Iraq or Korea or whichever war the current origin uses.

Using a fictional place (Bialya? Khandaq? Tamaran? Phantom Zone?) can keep it topical without tying it to one particular era. I feel like you'll get more mileage out of it that way, long-term.