Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[byrd156]

Something like that. Bruce firing Dick, sleeping with Babs before marrying Kori... though that one is universally hated it doesn't have to count... canceling the marriage with Kori because stuff happens, being de-aged in the reboot, letting Blockbuster be murdered, being raped...

Though a lot of that has been erased in the reboot so I guess it no longer matters...

I know the recent one is some fans saying that Dick change after New 52 or more specifically Grayson, where they put more emphasis on his charm, sexiness and kindness but downplaying his intelligence, detective skills, technological skills since Tim is The Smart One and the negative part of his personality to make him The Nice One in contrast to Jason and Damian being The Bad One.

I want to know if there's anything else before that divide fans on how he should be portrayed.

Almost anytime something dumb like that happened to Dick fans would just ignore it and so would the writers. Generally other comic characters dumb stuff like that would stick in some way but it's like an unspoken thing where both creators and fans pretend it didn't happen. All the better I say. As for the Starfire stuff she was married and also preganant from another alien dude at the end of New Titans and no one ever brings that up.

Where is the divide in Dick's fandom? Dick's fans are loyal as hell, the only way there would be a divide would be the tumblr style fans. Those who talk about his ass and how he loves cereal and all that crap. This is only very recent thing that happened with the reboot.

[Restingvoice]

Almost anytime something dumb like that happened to Dick fans would just ignore it and so would the writers. Generally other comic characters dumb stuff like that would stick in some way but it's like an unspoken thing where both creators and fans pretend it didn't happen. All the better I say. As for the Starfire stuff she was married and also preganant from another alien dude at the end of New Titans and no one ever brings that up.

Heh. Good. Wasn't aware about that one ^^

Where is the divide in Dick's fandom? Dick's fans are loyal as hell, the only way there would be a divide would be the tumblr style fans. Those who talk about his ass and how he loves cereal and all that crap. This is only very recent thing that happened with the reboot.

Well yeah, that's why I ask. The one I know is the Dixon Portrayal vs Present Portrayal that put more emphasis on Dick's charm, kindness and sexiness at the expense of his technological savvy and other traits.

So it sounds like there's nothing like that before Grayson. He's pretty consistent overall and fans agree on which one is stupid and should be gone.

[9th.]

Honestly I don't know why DC doesn't just try to sync up with Young Justice (the show) right now. Have Dick run around working on a meta-human trafficking case like the show. It's got crazy superhero potential, team-ups, espionage, globetrotting, it has everything that people have been asking for in this thread.

This exact thought crossed my mind when I saw the trailer yesterday, I actually thought of this thread.

[byrd156]

This exact thought crossed my mind when I saw the trailer yesterday, I actually thought of this thread.

It is honestly probably the best option of what everyone in this thread seems to want.

[Badou]

Wasn't that was Abnett's shitty Titans book supposed to be? Dick and his team focusing on saving and dealing with the new increase in meta humans when the Source Wall broke. It is just Abnett writes a terrible Dick and his Titans stories aren't very good, but that was the concept of his book. Was supposed to be them focus in on trying to deal with he new meta problem on Earth while the JL is away or something.

I've said this before but I wish DC has an Avengers equivalent. That would be the perfect set up for Nightwing. A professional hero team where heroes basically can be heroes full time and even earn an income from it, has a base of operations, has resources for its heroes, and is filled with other adult heroes so no being looked down on or needing a babysitter. It is a team structured where a hero can be sent on solo missions anywhere or form teams within the Avengers to also do anything needed. Be it small street level missions to a large scale alien invasion crisis. DC just doesn't have that. Adult Titans will always be looked down on and the JLA will never make Dick a member. So he is stuck in this awkward place of not being able to do anything like this.

[nhienphan2808]

Something like that. Bruce firing Dick, sleeping with Babs before marrying Kori... though that one is universally hated it doesn't have to count... canceling the marriage with Kori because stuff happens, being de-aged in the reboot, letting Blockbuster be murdered, being raped...

Though a lot of that has been erased in the reboot so I guess it no longer matters...

I know the recent one is some fans saying that Dick change after New 52 or more specifically Grayson, where they put more emphasis on his charm, sexiness and kindness but downplaying his intelligence, detective skills, technological skills since Tim is The Smart One and the negative part of his personality to make him The Nice One in contrast to Jason and Damian being The Bad One.

I want to know if there's anything else before that divide fans on how he should be portrayed.

As far as i know, none. When post-crisis came he was fired , but it has it's roots from the 80 to 84 Bat book when Dick was away with NTT and only cameoed. At that period Bruce started to have these...episodes when he doubt his sanity and overall their differences in personality. There was this one time he hurt Dick in his panic and pushed him down the stairs in his dream, it was actually clone Dick/robot Dick and Dick was ok) so he was afraid kept their distance after that. It's unecessary drama to me and Dick left smoothly after Blond Jason came but that's where his panic that Dick was gonna die in Post Crisis came from.

[king81992]

Wasn't that was Abnett's shitty Titans book supposed to be? Dick and his team focusing on saving and dealing with the new increase in meta humans when the Source Wall broke. It is just Abnett writes a terrible Dick and his Titans stories aren't very good, but that was the concept of his book. Was supposed to be them focus in on trying to deal with he new meta problem on Earth while the JL is away or something.

I've said this before but I wish DC has an Avengers equivalent. That would be the perfect set up for Nightwing. A professional hero team where heroes basically can be heroes full time and even earn an income from it, has a base of operations, has resources for its heroes, and is filled with other adult heroes so no being looked down on or needing a babysitter. It is a team structured where a hero can be sent on solo missions anywhere or form teams within the Avengers to also do anything needed. Be it small street level missions to a large scale alien invasion crisis. DC just doesn't have that. Adult Titans will always be looked down on and the JLA will never make Dick a member. So he is stuck in this awkward place of not being able to do anything like this.

The Titans SHOULD be the DC equivalent of the Avengers. Unfortunately, DC sees them as canon fodder.

[byrd156]

Wasn't that was Abnett's shitty Titans book supposed to be? Dick and his team focusing on saving and dealing with the new increase in meta humans when the Source Wall broke. It is just Abnett writes a terrible Dick and his Titans stories aren't very good, but that was the concept of his book. Was supposed to be them focus in on trying to deal with he new meta problem on Earth while the JL is away or something.

I've said this before but I wish DC has an Avengers equivalent. That would be the perfect set up for Nightwing. A professional hero team where heroes basically can be heroes full time and even earn an income from it, has a base of operations, has resources for its heroes, and is filled with other adult heroes so no being looked down on or needing a babysitter. It is a team structured where a hero can be sent on solo missions anywhere or form teams within the Avengers to also do anything needed. Be it small street level missions to a large scale alien invasion crisis. DC just doesn't have that. Adult Titans will always be looked down on and the JLA will never make Dick a member. So he is stuck in this awkward place of not being able to do anything like this.

No it's not the same idea. The Source Wall was broken and a bunch of people started developing powers as a side effect. This version of Titans were in charge of finding and containing these possible threats while helping any innocents who developed powers.

Metahuman trafficking is just like human trafficking, people get kidnapped and are used in horrible ways. Specifically in the show Young Justice the metahuman trafficking was connected to the Reach. They would round people up and test them to see if they had the meta gene, if they did they would figure out what the power was and find a way to take it. From there they would use all the collected powers to take over the world. You could follow the same premise with a secret society, a different race of aliens, Vandal Savage, etc. There could be new metas created and introduced, heroes and villains being bought and sold, etc. This is a very human issue that can be stretched in any direction the writing team wanted to go with. Dick could be infiltrating the League of Assassin's one day to figure out their connection to saving Killer Frost being sold at an auction to fighting Intergang on their moon storage house. I would definitely frame the storyline as almost like Secret Invasion or They Live where people are taken and no one really notices. So it's up to Dick to save the world whether they know he did or not.

[Starrius]

Almost anytime something dumb like that happened to Dick fans would just ignore it and so would the writers. Generally other comic characters dumb stuff like that would stick in some way but it's like an unspoken thing where both creators and fans pretend it didn't happen. All the better I say. As for the Starfire stuff she was married and also preganant from another alien dude at the end of New Titans and no one ever brings that up.

Where is the divide in Dick's fandom? Dick's fans are loyal as hell, the only way there would be a divide would be the tumblr style fans. Those who talk about his ass and how he loves cereal and all that crap. This is only very recent thing that happened with the reboot.

I have seen people bring up Kory's marriages before to use against her about why she's not good for Dick and Barbara is better
I have seen the stuff brought up in the poll about Dick's true love in the Batman forum at this site
I have also seen it brought up at the comic vine site
I have also seen it brought up at a comic book site

[Ascended]

Why not just retcon out the Haley's Circus debacle and Dick still has his parents' insurance/trust fund?

Because retcons and reboots only ever lead to more problems. Besides, money from Bruce or money from his parents, either way it's nothing Dick is earning on his own, and I think that's his point about Bruce's cash; Dick wants to earn it himself, not get a handout. He might be more willing to take money from his parents, but it's still not going to make him feel like he's self-sufficient. And I never understood how a couple circus performers could have a trust fund in the first place. They certainly didn't make that much money, and whatever life insurance they had, if they had any and if it got paid out by the insurance company at all, likely would've dried up already.

I wouldn't be against Dick opening Haley's back up as a casino, like someone suggested here, or even re-opening the circus itself, but saying "this story didn't happen" is something I will almost never agree with. It never helps.

I think the hesitation I have with Dick in Metropolis is that instead of playing second fiddle to Batman he'd be playing second fiddle to superman. I see the upside there, but I'm not sure I'd want it to be his (even semi)permanent direction. A mini though? I'd spend stupid money on that.

That is a concern, definitely. But there's a couple points in our favor here; Superman doesn't spend time with his legacies and sidekicks. He barely shows up in Kara's book, barely showed up in Conner or Steel's books back in the day, and I dont see any reason for him to be more present in Nightwing's. Superman stays out of Suicide Slum as much as possible because his arrival usually just makes things worse, so there's an actual in-story reason to keep Clark's appearances to a minimum. And ultimately, Superman doesn't move units like Batman does, so the writers have less incentive to bring Clark in for a sales boost. It'd still help some, but not like it does with Batman (and even then, Batman doesnt help sales like he used to either).

None of that is to say the concern is unfounded, because it's definitely a potential problem. But I dont think we'd see Dick overshadowed as much in Metropolis because we likely wouldn't see Superman as often as we see Batman. And I think the potential benefits outweigh the potential problems. At least right now; this isn't something I think should be a permanent status quo, but it'd be better than many of these stop-gap short term jaunts DC is using right now, like "Ric." Dick would get to benefit from a established setting and borrow some of Clark's unused rogues, and you could bring people from Metropolis into Dick's supporting cast like Bibbo, Maggie Sawyer (who knows Nightwing already), etc. Hell, you could even maybe have Clark Kent (not Superman) as part of Dick's supporting cast.

Anyone remember back in the day when Carol Danvers worked for a magazine owned by the Daily Bugle, and Jamison, MJ, Peter Parker, etc., would show up in Carol's title or were used as a regular part of her supporting cast? I never thought that direction was great for a military woman like Carol, but the idea of "sharing" a setting and supporting cast with Spider-Man did have some appeal and probably helped Carol sell a little bit better. Something like that with Dick might not be the worst thing right now.

[WonderNight]

Honestly most characters outside the big 7 should share settings and supporting cast. The current market can only support about 12 characters as solo's so unless most other heros and in team books at the same time they'll be in and out of limbo with no setting and cast of there own.

IF nightwing is in bludhevan and IF it's vegashaven than why not have it be the hub for heros and characters who has backgrounds in entertainment like zatanna, vixen ect. Give bludhevan more life and character, gives nightwing some cast and gives those characters something outside of superheroing and a setting and cast for there potential solo's.

[Ascended]

IF nightwing is in bludhevan and IF it's vegashaven than why not have it be the hub for heros and characters who has backgrounds in entertainment like zatanna, vixen ect. Give bludhevan more life and character, gives nightwing some cast and gives those characters something outside of superheroing and a setting and cast for there potential solo's.

I think approaching the DCU like this makes a lot of sense. And not just for Dick, but for everyone. Imagine if we took some of the C- or D-list characters and made them supporting characters in other titles? I mean, would Flash fans really mind if Vibe became a part of Barry's supporting cast? Would Vibe fans have a problem with that? It doesnt have to be a team book, but a lot of great characters are in limbo because they can't carry a solo and aren't part of a team currently. So why not give them some panel time in someone's book? As long as you make sure there's not a lot of overlap between the main star, you'll be okay. Like, I wouldn't want to see J'onn as part of Superman's supporting cast because there's too much overlap there, J'onn only adds so much and his powers are too similar; any problem would have fans asking why J'onn isn't helping out. But if it were, say, Ray Palmer? He's got an area of expertise outside Clark's usual stomping grounds, and it doesn't take much to explain why the Atom wasn't in deep orbit fighting an alien invasion with Clark.

[byrd156]

I think approaching the DCU like this makes a lot of sense. And not just for Dick, but for everyone. Imagine if we took some of the C- or D-list characters and made them supporting characters in other titles? I mean, would Flash fans really mind if Vibe became a part of Barry's supporting cast? Would Vibe fans have a problem with that? It doesnt have to be a team book, but a lot of great characters are in limbo because they can't carry a solo and aren't part of a team currently. So why not give them some panel time in someone's book? As long as you make sure there's not a lot of overlap between the main star, you'll be okay. Like, I wouldn't want to see J'onn as part of Superman's supporting cast because there's too much overlap there, J'onn only adds so much and his powers are too similar; any problem would have fans asking why J'onn isn't helping out. But if it were, say, Ray Palmer? He's got an area of expertise outside Clark's usual stomping grounds, and it doesn't take much to explain why the Atom wasn't in deep orbit fighting an alien invasion with Clark.

Always down for more characters appearing in books.

[dropkickjake]

Yeah, I'd love a stretch of Nightwing setting up shop in suicide slum. Maybe he heads there for a specific mission and stays a while. Wouldn't want it to be something with the "50 issue plan" or Grayson, but a good run there would be great!

Badou, what would your JSA line up be? Nightwing, PowerGirl, and who else?

[9th.]

Honestly most characters outside the big 7 should share settings and supporting cast. The current market can only support about 12 characters as solo's so unless most other heros and in team books at the same time they'll be in and out of limbo with no setting and cast of there own.

IF nightwing is in bludhevan and IF it's vegashaven than why not have it be the hub for heros and characters who has backgrounds in entertainment like zatanna, vixen ect. Give bludhevan more life and character, gives nightwing some cast and gives those characters something outside of superheroing and a setting and cast for there potential solo's.

I had the same idea Zatana, Canarys Band, Owen Mercer, Gypsy, Deadman, Looker, Vigilante.