Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[dropkickjake]

As much as I'd like to see him take Bette under his wing, or some other established character like Cass or Steph or whoever, or even one of Clark's legacies like Jon, it's probably best if Dick gets a brand new character for a sidekick. Maybe you can get away with using an old title like Flamebird, but it's maybe for the best if Dick doesn't take one of Bruce's extra kids and the person using the name is new. If we want Dick to stand on his own, even partially, he needs stuff of his own, and a sidekick is important enough it should be someone designed specifically to work with Dick's character, without ties to Batman.

Reading through Morrison's run again makes me wish we could see Dick/Damian and Bruce/Tim. But we can't turn back the clock, can we?

Lotti Duff. It should be Lotti Duff. She's already semi-established and competent, but as a spy. We could see the reverse of the Grayson series: A spy learns how to become a hero.

[Ascended]

Lotti Duff. It should be Lotti Duff. She's already semi-established and competent, but as a spy. We could see the reverse of the Grayson series: A spy learns how to become a hero.

.....drawing a blank here. Is that one of the skull girls?

[Ascended]

Mar'i Grayson? I know she's known more as Nightstar, but in her youth, she could be Flamebird. And it gives Dick his own sidekick without being tied back to Batman or Superman, but rather directly to Dick.

Well, there's some problems with that, since Dick and Kori aren't together and don't have a kid, so you'd have to pull Mar'i out from somewhere. But yeah, I wouldn't be against a little dad-daughter crime fighting. But I'd consider having her keep the Nightstar name. It's a decent enough name and it's *her's* yknow?

I do like the idea of Nightwing having a super powered sidekick, and Mar'i does fit the bill, plus she brings in those "Starfire" visuals with the glowing hair and energy blasts, so it'd feel somewhat familiar to see her and Nightwing fighting while also being something brand new. It could work. If only we could figure out how a 20-something bachelor has a teenaged (or even ten year old) daughter without having to get into 90's X-Men levels of complicated.

I get you but one of the current problems with nightwing is that like his love interest, if the character isn't already prominent they don't stay. Which is why I feel dick's supporting cast should be heros who don't have a home. Instead of sitting in limbo or just team books..

That is a problem. Hell, it's one of the biggest problems Dick and DC (and Marvel) have. That has to change before anything else can be done. I mean, look at how many times they've changed Dick's status quo and direction. It happens with almost every creative team. Wonder Woman has suffered from the same for decades and it's caused her to lag behind the rest of the Trinity. No sidekick, love interest, or status quo is going to exist for Nightwing until DC finally makes editorial do their jobs and enforce some consistency. If a new writer doesn't like Mar'i as a sidekick or whatever it is that's going on, too gods damn bad!

I would say Bette is far enough removed from Bruce. She has slowly been moved away since her inception, when was the last tie she had any close interactions with him or the family? (other than Batwoman)

Bette has been away since the 90s and a new revamp would pretty much make her a new character.

Bette might be far enough removed, and she was created as a foil for Dick, so she just might work out fine, I agree.

I think no matter who was chosen, it'd be a fine line to establish a sidekick for Nightwing and make sure the concept had enough strength to last. It'd take some determination and patience on the part of the creators and DC's management both, and we all know that's something that doesn't really happen these days.

[dropkickjake]

.....drawing a blank here. Is that one of the skull girls?

Yeah, the "main" one if there is a main one. She's the Scottish one with a pit of a punk rock attitude.

Well, there's some problems with that, since Dick and Kori aren't together and don't have a kid, so you'd have to pull Mar'i out from somewhere. But yeah, I wouldn't be against a little dad-daughter crime fighting. But I'd consider having her keep the Nightstar name. It's a decent enough name and it's *her's* yknow?

I do like the idea of Nightwing having a super powered sidekick, and Mar'i does fit the bill, plus she brings in those "Starfire" visuals with the glowing hair and energy blasts, so it'd feel somewhat familiar to see her and Nightwing fighting while also being something brand new. It could work. If only we could figure out how a 20-something bachelor has a teenaged (or even ten year old) daughter without having to get into 90's X-Men levels of complicated.



That is a problem. Hell, it's one of the biggest problems Dick and DC (and Marvel) have. That has to change before anything else can be done. I mean, look at how many times they've changed Dick's status quo and direction. It happens with almost every creative team. Wonder Woman has suffered from the same for decades and it's caused her to lag behind the rest of the Trinity. No sidekick, love interest, or status quo is going to exist for Nightwing until DC finally makes editorial do their jobs and enforce some consistency. If a new writer doesn't like Mar'i as a sidekick or whatever it is that's going on, too gods damn bad!



Bette might be far enough removed, and she was created as a foil for Dick, so she just might work out fine, I agree.

I think no matter who was chosen, it'd be a fine line to establish a sidekick for Nightwing and make sure the concept had enough strength to last. It'd take some determination and patience on the part of the creators and DC's management both, and we all know that's something that doesn't really happen these days.

I think living arrangements would be a particular challenge with Dick having a sidekick, particularly a younger one. Bette or Loti could live in the city on their own and meet up with Nightwing on patrol. Younger ones though, like Mar'i, Jonathan Kent, or Rose Wilson, probably couldn't live with Dick, whatever his living situation (especially the teenage girls). Their presence in Bludhaven would need an explanation somehow.

[Ascended]

Well, if you somehow brought Mar'i into it, the living situation wouldn't be a problem. It's his daughter.

Otherwise, yeah it'd be a little questionable maybe.

Unless Dick were in charge of a large organization, like a Titans "army" or Spyral, in which case his sidekick could live on the "base" along with Dick and all the other staff members/agents/team members/whatever it happens to be.

Jon Kent could stay in Metropolis and live with his parents, and just fly to Bludhaven on his own.

[king81992]

I'm not against Mari hanging out with Dick but that would involve time travel and I'm against time travel stories in principle.

[dropkickjake]

I'm not against Mari hanging out with Dick but that would involve time travel and I'm against time travel stories in principle.

Could also be multiverse stuff.

[Restingvoice]

What is Harper doing these days? She was planned by Snyder to be Nightwing for Batman Eternal while Dick's in hiding until fans sniffed the plan and shut it down ^^
She can be the sidekick. She's been traveling with him during the second Eternal so they already know each other. There are so many young Batman family members that all they need to do is share them around.

[Ascended]

Harper showed up a few times in Tynion's 'Tec. She's out of the hero game and doing "worthwhile civilian stuff" and only showed up as a supporting character for Steph and Cass.

I dont think she was very popular, so I wouldn't argue with her staying as far from Nightwing's orbit as possible (he doesn't need the extra hate). But I also have no strong feelings towards her either way, personally.

[oasis1313]

What is Harper doing these days? She was planned by Snyder to be Nightwing for Batman Eternal while Dick's in hiding until fans sniffed the plan and shut it down ^^
She can be the sidekick. She's been traveling with him during the second Eternal so they already know each other. There are so many young Batman family members that all they need to do is share them around.

Ugh. No Harper, please. She could bring in a lot of hate and chase off some paying customers. Dick needs to bring in every dime he can to stay alive.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Dick needs to stand on his like some have said, I think a brand new character is the only way to move forward. Personally, I'd hope we get a legacy character like Kamala or Riri that can capture the current cultural zeitgeist and actually gain a following beyond the 40K diehard Nightwing fans. It needs to be the kind of character that gets people at WB thinking about a Nightwing and _____ series or movie or something else. That's how you get more people reading Nightwing and respecting/paying attention to his natural progression to mentor.

What I'm proposing probably sounds kinda familiar tho: just like Robin was introduced in 1940 to appeal to the mainstream and get them invested in Batman, it's about time we started building up the Nightwing brand. That's how I feel.

[byrd156]

Dick needs to stand on his like some have said, I think a brand new character is the only way to move forward. Personally, I'd hope we get a legacy character like Kamala or Riri that can capture the current cultural zeitgeist and actually gain a following beyond the 40K diehard Nightwing fans. It needs to be the kind of character that gets people at WB thinking about a Nightwing and _____ series or movie or something else. That's how you get more people reading Nightwing and respecting/paying attention to his natural progression to mentor.

What I'm proposing probably sounds kinda familiar tho: just like Robin was introduced in 1940 to appeal to the mainstream and get them invested in Batman, it's about time we started building up the Nightwing brand. That's how I feel.

I feel like the new character route is doomed to fail if everyone on the creative team and beyond doesn't give it their all. Otherwise we will get another Duke or Harper or Calvin.

[Ascended]

I feel like the new character route is doomed to fail if everyone on the creative team and beyond doesn't give it their all. Otherwise we will get another Duke or Harper or Calvin.

It boils down to editorial and management sticking to the choice, too. Far too often in comics we see publishers abandon viable creative choices just because the next writer doesn't want to deal with it. That sh*t needs to stop. Otherwise it wont matter if the sidekick is an established hero or an original one and it wont matter how well the creators craft the dynamic, it'll get tossed by the next writer either way. Unless editors start forcing their talent to build on what came before.

An established character does have higher odds of sticking around, at least in the short term (and with editorial allowing drastic changes all the time, there's often not a long term) but an original character built for the role might still be a better choice for the long term and the development of Nightwing as its own brand.

[Badou]

Most creators can't even get a solo Nightwing series right. I don't have much confidence that throwing in a sidekick to take away focus and panel time will help the matter. I think for a story arc or two it might be interesting but I can't see a long term sidekick actually being a benefit to the character when they haven't fixed or ironed out all the problems that Nightwing has just on his own right now.

But setting all that to the side, count me in the group that would rather see an established character. Obviously not a Harper as she was kind of dull, but a good character. It isn't just about if the character will stick around but it is also about creating new dynamics that can last and future writers might want to pick up on. All these classic pairings and dynamics started somewhere. It is a bit like the Rebirth Outlaws situation. If they had used an original Wonder Woman and original Superman character it wouldn't have worked as well, but them using Artemis and Bizzaro gave the story more weight because these were established characters and increased the story's reach.

Plus no character created in a Nightwing series has ever really amounted to anything and I don't expect that to change. Like no original character in a Nightwing/Grayson series has become anything noteworthy. Like maybe Tiger in the Grayson series is the most successful character but that might be because the writer that created him likes him and is now the head Batman writer.

[Godlike13]

Rose Wilson is still my first choice. She’s a character that can easily jump with Dick between both the Bat side and Titan side, while at at the same time plays off Deathstoke. There’s would be a lot of potential there i think. And the Deathstoke book itself even intoduced a bit of a foundation they could start from.