Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[Jackalope89]

This is why I say; pull the trigger on KorixDick, and have Mar'i be Dick's sidekick. That way, she has a direct connection to Dick without being someone else's sidekick first, but also has personal reasons for it. And of course Kori would be there as well.

[Badou]

They need to drop the idea of trying to make his solo book fit into the old solo hero standard mold. Things like he "needs his own city", "he needs to have some kind of normal day job", or "he needs to have a relatable personal life" I think are all regressive ideas. Instead of trying to make his solo book more like Daredevil or Spider-man they need to try and make it more like Captain America or Wolverine. A hero that just operates in the DCU without the hangups of having to protect some useless city or spend time trying to find some day job for the character to do. Creators just tell whatever kind of story they want without trying to fit it into some standard box. Just use Gotham as a "home base" the way Wolverine uses the X-Mansion or Captain America uses the Avengers Mansion to ground the character or give them a place to "recharge" if need be. Once they drop those things I think the book will be able to have the freedom to actually utilize the character well.

I think books like the current Deathstroke run or even Outlaws are good examples of this. They aren't beholden to the traditional mold and their main character is able to operate in any venue that the creator can imagine or wants to use. I don't understand why Dick can't do that as well. Deathstroke had an arc where he created and lead his own hero team, an arc where he fought Batman, and arc where he got sent to Arkham, and so on. A fluid book that allows Dick to do what he wants, which is to be a hero in the DCU.

I said this when they revealed that new pointless cop character was going to take over as Nightwing in the Ric arc that this is all a set up to try and make Dick a cop again. That is what I fear will happen and the fact they keep adding more cops Nightwings into the arc makes that feel more of an inevitability, and I worry it will be years and years of more creators trying to "fix" Bludhaven and make Dick work in that city. Then a year, two years, or five years from now fans are still asking the same questions and complaining about the same things.

[Godlike13]

DC doesn’t set up with Dick. That would take forward planning and thinking, which is something they can not be bothered to do with the character.

[oasis1313]

We’ve all heard the complaint that Dick Grayson is all about fan service. Well, all I hear from that corner now is crickets. I think DC is more about servicing diva “creators”.

[Ascended]

This is why I say; pull the trigger on KorixDick, and have Mar'i be Dick's sidekick. That way, she has a direct connection to Dick without being someone else's sidekick first, but also has personal reasons for it. And of course Kori would be there as well.

I really am starting to warm up to the idea of Mar'i. It could be a lot of fun to see her interact with Damian too, considering how protective and possessive of Dick he is. And she'd work really well as a sidekick for him.

But getting her into the DCU.....time travel and multiverse stories can go off the rails so easily......

Maybe instead of studying for finals I'll see if I can cook up a viable story that gets Nightstar into the main continuity.

[oasis1313]

I really am starting to warm up to the idea of Mar'i. It could be a lot of fun to see her interact with Damian too, considering how protective and possessive of Dick he is. And she'd work really well as a sidekick for him.

But getting her into the DCU.....time travel and multiverse stories can go off the rails so easily......

Maybe instead of studying for finals I'll see if I can cook up a viable story that gets Nightstar into the main continuity.

Wouldn't she make Dick really old in continuity? Where is her mom?

[byrd156]

Wouldn't she make Dick really old in continuity? Where is her mom?

This wont happen. If Dick looks old than Bruce would look ancient and those kinds of stories are Elseworld exclusives.

[dropkickjake]

Maybe instead of studying for finals I'll see if I can cook up a viable story that gets Nightstar into the main continuity.

Haha, hope the finals went/are going/will go well. Nightstar's introduction can wait till Christmas break, I'm sure.

Personally I've been mulling over the Dick vs Tiger for the heavy weight champion of Spyral arc for a while now. I think bringing in the *real* kathy kane to be manipulating events for Dick to take the helm would be great. Her motivation could be that she initially intended to take over her father's organization and hand the reins over to Batman, but in shadowing him found Batman to be much different than the man she knew while Dick was Robin. She could then see that Dick was what brought out the Bruce that she knew and decide that it was Dick who could best be trusted with the gray world of Spyral.

Dick and Kathy's relationship could be a pretty interesting son-mother dynamic, where her "parenting" style ended up being the opposite of Batman, but Dick would naturally be reluctant to trust her. (I read that idea about their relationship on the boards from someone a long time ago. Can't remember who.)

Wouldn't she make Dick really old in continuity? Where is her mom?

Nah, our Nightwing would stay the same age. Mar'i would have to be introduced through multiverse stuff. Being the teenage daughter of a different Dick Grayson and Starfire could make things awkward in our own reality for Dick, which would be pretty fun.

[Ascended]

Wouldn't she make Dick really old in continuity? Where is her mom?

If she were Dick's actual daughter and aged at a normal rate then yeah, you'd have to add a few years to Dick's age.

In all honesty, that's less of a problem than figuring out where Mar'i has been. They gave Superman a ten year old son and swept the age-up under the rug (at that point it doesn't really make Clark or Lois look older anyway) and none of that proved to be a problem. But they had to bend over backwards explaining how the kid got here in the first place, resulting in a convoluted and stupid story about two different Supermen merging together and Jon's history being forced into the backstory.

With Mar'i, its the same problem. If she was born when Dick and Kori were still together in the NTT (which was five-seven years ago in current continuity, if you build off the Titans Hunt stuff), then Dick's only going to be a few years older than he is now. That won't be an issue because he'll just go from "vaguely early 20-something" to "vaguely mid 20-something." But where has Mar'i been all this time? If you change continuity to include her then that changes a lot of Kori's history, Dick's history, and the ripple effect hits the NTT and then spreads out to include everyone else in the DCU. With Superman, they were able to use the chaos of Rebirth and the Manhattan missing time plot to handwave it off; there were bigger things going on at the time for fans to focus on. But considering the relatively tightly knit history of Gotham, saying that Dick's had a daughter for the last ten years isnt going to be an easy sell.

But if Mar'i comes from another time, another reality, is a Dick-Kori clone created by HIVE, or whatever else, then you avoid the problem entirely.

[Jackalope89]

If she were Dick's actual daughter and aged at a normal rate then yeah, you'd have to add a few years to Dick's age.

In all honesty, that's less of a problem than figuring out where Mar'i has been. They gave Superman a ten year old son and swept the age-up under the rug (at that point it doesn't really make Clark or Lois look older anyway) and none of that proved to be a problem. But they had to bend over backwards explaining how the kid got here in the first place, resulting in a convoluted and stupid story about two different Supermen merging together and Jon's history being forced into the backstory.

With Mar'i, its the same problem. If she was born when Dick and Kori were still together in the NTT (which was five-seven years ago in current continuity, if you build off the Titans Hunt stuff), then Dick's only going to be a few years older than he is now. That won't be an issue because he'll just go from "vaguely early 20-something" to "vaguely mid 20-something." But where has Mar'i been all this time? If you change continuity to include her then that changes a lot of Kori's history, Dick's history, and the ripple effect hits the NTT and then spreads out to include everyone else in the DCU. With Superman, they were able to use the chaos of Rebirth and the Manhattan missing time plot to handwave it off; there were bigger things going on at the time for fans to focus on. But considering the relatively tightly knit history of Gotham, saying that Dick's had a daughter for the last ten years isnt going to be an easy sell.

But if Mar'i comes from another time, another reality, is a Dick-Kori clone created by HIVE, or whatever else, then you avoid the problem entirely.

So, HIVE clone, like Cadmus for Connor Kent? I could see that.

[Ascended]

So, HIVE clone, like Cadmus for Connor Kent? I could see that.

Something like that, yeah. Doesnt *have* to be a clone. I mean, we've got tons of examples of people from other realities and/or timelines staying in main continuity. I think half the X-Men roster these days is made up of people born in the future or alternate dimensions.

But you want to make it as simple and clean a origin as you can, and because Dick is always going to have one foot grounded in Gotham, street-level sensibilities, it becomes a little more complicated to pull off.

A clone is probably the best, easiest solution. You could certainly go for something more fantastical, like her coming from the future, and Dick's got the range to make it "fit" within his own story even if it doesn't mesh with Batman's usual stomping grounds, but no matter what you gotta try to keep it simple.

I also think if you were to bring in Mar'i, you can't make her a teenager. She's gotta be young enough so she "looks" like Nightwing's daughter, even if she's from another reality or Dick is still too young to actually have a kid that old. Like, the Nightstar from Kingdom Come was a teenager, right? 16-19 somewhere? Old enough to be in a serious, sexually active relationship anyway. With Dick only being in his mid-20's, that'd be a pretty weird dynamic where his daughter is only a few years younger than he is. And since a big part of the appeal with Nightstar would be that father-daughter interaction, I say make Mar'i around ten years old.

[Jackalope89]

Something like that, yeah. Doesnt *have* to be a clone. I mean, we've got tons of examples of people from other realities and/or timelines staying in main continuity. I think half the X-Men roster these days is made up of people born in the future or alternate dimensions.

But you want to make it as simple and clean a origin as you can, and because Dick is always going to have one foot grounded in Gotham, street-level sensibilities, it becomes a little more complicated to pull off.

A clone is probably the best, easiest solution. You could certainly go for something more fantastical, like her coming from the future, and Dick's got the range to make it "fit" within his own story even if it doesn't mesh with Batman's usual stomping grounds, but no matter what you gotta try to keep it simple.

I also think if you were to bring in Mar'i, you can't make her a teenager. She's gotta be young enough so she "looks" like Nightwing's daughter, even if she's from another reality or Dick is still too young to actually have a kid that old. Like, the Nightstar from Kingdom Come was a teenager, right? 16-19 somewhere? Old enough to be in a serious, sexually active relationship anyway. With Dick only being in his mid-20's, that'd be a pretty weird dynamic where his daughter is only a few years younger than he is. And since a big part of the appeal with Nightstar would be that father-daughter interaction, I say make Mar'i around ten years old.

Right around Damian's and Jon's age...

Super Kids, unite! And that would certainly tilt Damian's world. And probably in a good way.

[oasis1313]

One of the people in the comics shop told me that Supersons is ending. Jon aged up into Crazy Superboy like in whatever Crisis it was so that Connor will be the only Superboy, and Damian will be shuffled out so that Tim will be the only Robin, as part Bendis’ demands. Somebody please tell me it ain’t happnin’ like that! If itinerary is true, then Damian may need a new home, and take a new identity like Redbird. Maybe he could go and be Dick’s partner?

[king81992]

One of the people in the comics shop told me that Supersons is ending. Jon aged up into Crazy Superboy like in whatever Crisis it was so that Connor will be the only Superboy, and Damian will be shuffled out so that Tim will be the only Robin, as part Bendis’ demands. Somebody please tell me it ain’t happnin’ like that! If itinerary is true, then Damian may need a new home, and take a new identity like Redbird. Maybe he could go and be Dick’s partner?

Tim and Damian are going to be sharing the role of Robin for the near future. I can't see DC shafting Damian. The worst case scenario for Damian is that his TT roster gets overhauled. The worst case scenario for both Tim and Damian is that writers decide to do a YJ vs TT arc.

The Connor and Jon situation is going to be weird. I'm not sure what Bendis has in mind. My guess is that Jon gets de-aged back to a kid eventually.

[Jackalope89]

Tim and Damian are going to be sharing the role of Robin for the near future. I can't see DC shafting Damian. The worst case scenario for Damian is that his TT roster gets overhauled. The worst case scenario for both Tim and Damian is that writers decide to do a YJ vs TT arc.

The Connor and Jon situation is going to be weird. I'm not sure what Bendis has in mind. My guess is that Jon gets de-aged back to a kid eventually.

The problem is, is that from interviews and such, it sounds like Bendis has no plans to de-age Jon going forward, and he aged him up so "Clark would feel awful for missing years of his son growing up". Shock value, for short.