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  1. #826
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    I want whatever writer to come after this Ric fiasco to sit down and address it in the next arc. I hate bad stories, especially in comics but that doesn't mean I want them forgotten or glossed over. Unlike movies you don't get to see bad performances, goofy special effects or the like that can turn a bad experience into a fun one. Comics should always build off of what came before, not saying specifically continuity-wise but there are lessons to be learned from the previous book, good or bad.

    Simply sweeping Ric under the rug is just DC admitting that they were just flailing about wasting everyone's time and money. An ongoing should always deal with issues and problems that have been brought up before just in new and different ways. Maybe have Dick realize that maybe he needs to get out of Bludhaven for awhile. Use this terrible crisis as self for the launchpad of a new and better story of self discovery. Whatever we end up getting I hope it addresses the low points of this run and gives us something better built off of it.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  2. #827
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Ric should be ignored and never mentioned again. Any future mention of it will annoy me and therefore waste future, potentially good stories.

    They are already wasting our time, that is clear. No reason to have them make future things worse because of it.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  3. #828
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I want whatever writer to come after this Ric fiasco to sit down and address it in the next arc. I hate bad stories, especially in comics but that doesn't mean I want them forgotten or glossed over. Unlike movies you don't get to see bad performances, goofy special effects or the like that can turn a bad experience into a fun one. Comics should always build off of what came before, not saying specifically continuity-wise but there are lessons to be learned from the previous book, good or bad.

    Simply sweeping Ric under the rug is just DC admitting that they were just flailing about wasting everyone's time and money. An ongoing should always deal with issues and problems that have been brought up before just in new and different ways. Maybe have Dick realize that maybe he needs to get out of Bludhaven for awhile. Use this terrible crisis as self for the launchpad of a new and better story of self discovery. Whatever we end up getting I hope it addresses the low points of this run and gives us something better built off of it.
    I agree that even the bad stories shouldn't be written off, if you truly want an actual continuity and a character history that matters. As it is, what we really have are characters built by the "greatest hits" and the highlight stories of their careers. Which is honestly the only way to manage it, because no one has the time to read through a century's worth of material.

    However, the big bad stories, stuff like Superman's Grounded or this Ric stuff.....those low points shouldn't be forgotten. You find out who and what you are when you're at rock bottom and even terrible stories can, later on, be used to make something beautiful. I often say that "bad stories may be total sh*t, but that's what makes the best fertilizer." Grounded, for example, still gave us insight into how Lois Lane feels about her marriage and life, it introduced new characters with potential as well as the Super Squadron; an army of Supermen and women from across time and space. Good stuff.

    But you don't always have to directly reference those low points, and as Pohzee says, it can actually turn fans off to be reminded of a bad story. But you can still let those bad stories inform your character, even without drawing attention to it. In Dick's case, at some future point you might have Dick in a car chase, and someone asks him where he learned to drive, he could reply "Oh, I used to drive a taxi." That's kinda humorous, comparing a taxi to a high speed chase, so it speaks a bit to Dick's sense of humor, it avoids the obvious to-go of "The Batcave" which inadvertently helps keep Dick under Bruce's shadow, and it's sly enough a lot of people will miss it. Or perhaps Dick is in a bar and orders a club soda. When someone asks why he isn't drinking a martini, he can say that he lost the taste for it after going through a rough patch. That enhances Dick's character and adds a new facet to him. And it wouldn't have happened without Ric.

    You dont even have to reference the bad stories at all, but a writer should keep them in mind to help develop the characters, just as the writer should remember the highlights.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  4. #829
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I agree that even the bad stories shouldn't be written off, if you truly want an actual continuity and a character history that matters. As it is, what we really have are characters built by the "greatest hits" and the highlight stories of their careers. Which is honestly the only way to manage it, because no one has the time to read through a century's worth of material.

    However, the big bad stories, stuff like Superman's Grounded or this Ric stuff.....those low points shouldn't be forgotten. You find out who and what you are when you're at rock bottom and even terrible stories can, later on, be used to make something beautiful. I often say that "bad stories may be total sh*t, but that's what makes the best fertilizer." Grounded, for example, still gave us insight into how Lois Lane feels about her marriage and life, it introduced new characters with potential as well as the Super Squadron; an army of Supermen and women from across time and space. Good stuff.

    But you don't always have to directly reference those low points, and as Pohzee says, it can actually turn fans off to be reminded of a bad story. But you can still let those bad stories inform your character, even without drawing attention to it. In Dick's case, at some future point you might have Dick in a car chase, and someone asks him where he learned to drive, he could reply "Oh, I used to drive a taxi." That's kinda humorous, comparing a taxi to a high speed chase, so it speaks a bit to Dick's sense of humor, it avoids the obvious to-go of "The Batcave" which inadvertently helps keep Dick under Bruce's shadow, and it's sly enough a lot of people will miss it. Or perhaps Dick is in a bar and orders a club soda. When someone asks why he isn't drinking a martini, he can say that he lost the taste for it after going through a rough patch. That enhances Dick's character and adds a new facet to him. And it wouldn't have happened without Ric.

    You dont even have to reference the bad stories at all, but a writer should keep them in mind to help develop the characters, just as the writer should remember the highlights.
    Exactly. You can always build something better.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  5. #830
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Ric isn’t just a bad story though, it’s a bad situation. An insulting situation. I’m not sure that time no one on the character gave a shit, and so they shot him in the head and ripped off We Are Robin is something that should be remembered or influce the character after in anyway. I don’t know, lazy ideas uninterested creators came up with in their spare time, just to fill space, don’t seem like the kind a bricks one should build with.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 04-06-2019 at 07:34 PM.

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Exactly. You can always build something better.
    I'm not sure we can wring blood out of a turnip here.

  7. #832
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Maybe Dick should’ve died in Batman 55 and instead of the Ric storyline, he spends that same time leading all the dead folk from HIC out of whatever limbo DC characters end up in between deaths.

  8. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Maybe Dick should’ve died in Batman 55 and instead of the Ric storyline, he spends that same time leading all the dead folk from HIC out of whatever limbo DC characters end up in between deaths.
    Tim should have died in Batman #55 and they could all sit around mourning and drinking punch.

  9. #834
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I'm not sure we can wring blood out of a turnip here.
    There's always something.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  10. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    There's always something.
    Like put a bunch of lepers in a hot tub and call it stew. Sorry for the utterly tasteless joke, but it does come to mind, given that lack of victuals we're being served.

  11. #836
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    What kind of menial day job would Zombie Nightwing have? DC requires that for the character. I'm thinking maybe call center worker.

  12. #837
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    What kind of menial day job would Zombie Nightwing have? DC requires that for the character. I'm thinking maybe call center worker.
    Grave digger of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    There's always something.
    Exactly.

    If nothing else, this is Dick finding rock bottom. In stories going forward Dick can always tell himself that, no matter how bad his situation is, he's been in worse. As the villain buries him in concrete (or whatever horrible thing is happening) Dick can always say "Well, at least I'm not driving a cab."

    I'm not reading this stuff so I can't speak to any particular elements that could be spun into a positive development. But there is always *something* you can use from a bad story to benefit the character/s afterwards. Always. Maybe you barely mention the bad story, maybe you don't mention it at all, but stuff like Ric shows the hero how bad life can get, which means that their opinions and values should change after the fact.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  13. #838
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    I’m pretty sure getting buried alive in concrete is a tad worse than anything that’s happened while Dick was Ric

  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    What kind of menial day job would Zombie Nightwing have? DC requires that for the character. I'm thinking maybe call center worker.
    Campaign aide for ANY 2020 candidate.

  15. #840
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I’m pretty sure getting buried alive in concrete is a tad worse than anything that’s happened while Dick was Ric
    Right, Ric’s life is not tramatic or tragic even, it just boring and pathetic. Ric is rock bottom creatively and from a management perspective, from a character and story perspective Dick has been through harsher and more trying times. Remember according to the creators on Ric, he’s the healthy one and Dick’s the unhealthy loser.
    Also to try and use Ric as something bad to learn from, they would have to acknowledge that Ric is bad. Which I highly doubt they are going to do anytime soon as long as the same people responsible for Ric remain responsible for Dick. We already see them trying to shift it back onto readers. Like poor Babs who just didn’t give Ric a chance and was wrong.

    Logically though Dick should probably wear more head protection after Ric, but I don’t really want to see Dick in a helmet personally.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 04-07-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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