Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[Westbats]

Once he's back, I'd like to see Nightwing to have more of a Crisis Management situation. I'm reminded of a part of Spider-Man: Learning to Crawl; that the quips and banter are supposed to cut the tension of the situation, but he could be play both the word-play part and the serious negotiator part. I'd also like to see Rose Wilson show up from time to time (though I don't know if he's still a mentor figure of hers now).

[Jackalope89]

Once he's back, I'd like to see Nightwing to have more of a Crisis Management situation. I'm reminded of a part of Spider-Man: Learning to Crawl; that the quips and banter are supposed to cut the tension of the situation, but he could be play both the word-play part and the serious negotiator part. I'd also like to see Rose Wilson show up from time to time (though I don't know if he's still a mentor figure of hers now).

Since New52? Not sure he's been much of mentor to anyone outside the Bat Family.

[dropkickjake]

Since New52? Not sure he's been much of mentor to anyone outside the Bat Family.

She didn’t mention that she was trained by Nightwing though. So there is that.

[WonderNight]

She didn’t mention that she was trained by Nightwing though. So there is that.

deathstroke #3 & 4

[Ascended]

Right, Ric’s life is not tramatic or tragic even

I dunno man, I'd say suffering memory loss after being shot in the head, alienating your family, and becoming a homeless alcoholic is pretty friggin tragic. Maybe that's not how they're trying to spin the story (not reading the book so I cant say) but that's what its going to look like in hindsight. Dick's taken his hits, but this has got to be among the bigger ones. This isn't a time in his life he's going to look fondly back on, and he wouldn't even if this were a well told story.

This seems like it'll be on par (as far as low points go) with Bane breaking Bruce's back. The destruction of Nightwing. Unfortunately, that wasn't a bad story and Ric is.

Hell don't we even have four fake Nightwings running around right now, just like we had four fake Supermen flying around after Clark died?

Also to try and use Ric as something bad to learn from, they would have to acknowledge that Ric is bad.

This is true. And these days it seems like the only thing DC will acknowledge is that we're not happy with the product. Thanks, Didio, for taking the time to gloat about it while you're at a movie premier. D-bag move bro.

But saying this was "something bad" for the character isnt a stretch. It's been designed to be "something bad" from the start. Something bad had to happen to Nightwing to keep him away from Bruce so Tom King's story (something bad didnt have to happen to take Dick out of the game but DC seems to disagree). Now, if you expect DC to say it was a bad idea or a bad story or even a badly executed one, that'll never happen. But they *should* say it was a bad experience for the character. He's a drunk hobo. It's not a step up.

[oasis1313]

This is true. And these days it seems like the only thing DC will acknowledge is that we're not happy with the product. Thanks, Didio, for taking the time to gloat about it while you're at a movie premier. D-bag move bro. .

And it's OUR fault that we don't like the product.

[Godlike13]

I agree it’s not a step up, but according to them it is. I agree that all that is tragic, but the readers and the writers are not on the same page on this. Thier story is that Ric is a healthier and better person than Dick, that Babs (the obvious audience surrogate) was wrong for not accepting Ric, and that the new Nightwings are even better than Nightwing. They brought in Babs to further validate this idea as the current creators take their leave even. Ric isn’t a tale of a fall, but of a new beginning. I can’t under state how bad and tone deaf the creators on this were. To them they invisioned Ric as Dick’s Oracle, as they said in the one interview that they did. From day 1 it seems they didn’t understand what Ric was suppose to even be, it doesn’t seem like they even knew who they were even writing this for, and so in there attempts to get Ric over chose to go the route of Dick is the unhealthy failure and Ric is his second chance at a better life. And the even worse editorial has done nothing but backed that position.
This is beyond just a bad story. This is a bad situation, with managers who just don’t give a crap, and confused creators who are seemingly trying to get across a confusing and rather counter productive idea. Now in a perfect world another creator would come in an be like, no those guys were confused and what they did was ****, but the editorial that allowed those creators to produce that same **** is never going to allow that. Cause they are just as responsible. So instead the narrative is going to be, as we are already seeing, the readers just didn’t give Ric a chance. We’ll be lucky if Ric is just brused aside and forgottened, cause if it is brought up again it’s not gonna be in the way readers would probably like.

[oasis1313]

You don't think they're gonna ADMIT they made a cluster-bump?

[dropkickjake]

Yeah, on the topic of "should the next author build from the Ric experience?" I'm gonna go with the hardest no possible. It's not [only] a low moment for the character; its a low moment for the franchise/brand of Nightwing. You don't "build" from that or reference it ever for the same reasons we don't need people building off tentacle monster Jason or Tarantula roof tops. These are the ideas you move on from and never talk about again.

[Arsenal]

The most that Ric will get mentioned is somebody (be it his friends or brothers) poking fun at him over it

[Schumiac]

You know, I would like to have ONE Dc editor come and explain to me how Ric is a better version of Dick Grayson. Like, how is Ric's life more "normal" and fullfileld than Dick's?

Ric
He is homeless
He is cab driver who can't really make ends meet
Occasionally he is the 5th wheel of a lame "vigilante" team in everyday clothes with grease paint for a mask
Occasionally he walks around the park with a "could be" girlfriend
Doesn't have a SINGLE friend (except for the "could be" girlfriend) and has no ties to his family


Dick/Nightwing
Had a home
Lived within the rules of law and was not stealing from others
Was a full-time vigilante helping keep people safe, with proper costume and gadgets etc
Had a job and/or was a business owner
Been in longtime relationships
Had lots of friends and close relationship to his family


How is Ric in any way or form having a better life? Just how? Ric gambles and drinks a lot, unlike Dick, is that supposed to be the indicator of him having a "normal" and so "superior" life to Dick's former vigilante ways? Am I to assume he has more fun and is more "free" now as a person wasting away as a bum?


It is a phase that just needs to be written out of existence and memory. Because it is just shameful on DC they let this happen and had this last long. The "getting shot" in the head and the "memory loss" weren't the major problems (though again, wish they didn'T happen), it is how DC handled the memory loss that is the problem. They left Dick to the mercy of a man who clearly could care less about him and doesn't get him, and this crap is what his lazy lacklusture writing gave us. And they let it happen. Don't think I ever wanted a reboot this much.

[dropkickjake]

Alright, new pitch time: We've seen our directions spin out of Grayson. We've seen it spin out of Court of Owls. Now its time to spin out of the New Teen Titans. This is more a direction in want of a pitch, than a pitch itself. We have Dick, Kory, Gar, Raven, and Cyborg (and maybe a few others) become a Firefly-esque sci-fi crew. Less general thieving and more general do-gooding. Maybe have them in Citedel (or whatever race took over Tamaran) space to put them "on the wrong side of the law."

Is this a blatant "I like Sci-Fi and I like Nightwing" fan move? YES! Overall, though, I think it *could* work. Dick could function as the crew's captain essentially. Plus it would finally make good on those old plans to have him and Kory go to space. It really would need to lean more on the NTT stuff (which I haven't even really read).

[This post brought to you by our sponsers: How Much Mass Effect I've Been Playing and How Much Saga I've Been Reading]

[oasis1313]

You know, I would like to have ONE Dc editor come and explain to me how Ric is a better version of Dick Grayson. Like, how is Ric's life more "normal" and fullfileld than Dick's?

Ric
He is homeless
He is cab driver who can't really make ends meet
Occasionally he is the 5th wheel of a lame "vigilante" team in everyday clothes with grease paint for a mask
Occasionally he walks around the park with a "could be" girlfriend
Doesn't have a SINGLE friend (except for the "could be" girlfriend) and has no ties to his family


Dick/Nightwing
Had a home
Lived within the rules of law and was not stealing from others
Was a full-time vigilante helping keep people safe, with proper costume and gadgets etc
Had a job and/or was a business owner
Been in longtime relationships
Had lots of friends and close relationship to his family


How is Ric in any way or form having a better life? Just how? Ric gambles and drinks a lot, unlike Dick, is that supposed to be the indicator of him having a "normal" and so "superior" life to Dick's former vigilante ways? Am I to assume he has more fun and is more "free" now as a person wasting away as a bum?


It is a phase that just needs to be written out of existence and memory. Because it is just shameful on DC they let this happen and had this last long. The "getting shot" in the head and the "memory loss" weren't the major problems (though again, wish they didn'T happen), it is how DC handled the memory loss that is the problem. They left Dick to the mercy of a man who clearly could care less about him and doesn't get him, and this crap is what his lazy lacklusture writing gave us. And they let it happen. Don't think I ever wanted a reboot this much.

Dick is worse than left to Lobdell. Dick is at the utter lack of mercy at the hands of a Publisher who personally and proudly loathes him and will gleefully destroy ANY attempt at salvage.

[Arsenal]

Alright, new pitch time: We've seen our directions spin out of Grayson. We've seen it spin out of Court of Owls. Now its time to spin out of the New Teen Titans. This is more a direction in want of a pitch, than a pitch itself. We have Dick, Kory, Gar, Raven, and Cyborg (and maybe a few others) become a Firefly-esque sci-fi crew. Less general thieving and more general do-gooding. Maybe have them in Citedel (or whatever race took over Tamaran) space to put them "on the wrong side of the law."

Is this a blatant "I like Sci-Fi and I like Nightwing" fan move? YES! Overall, though, I think it *could* work. Dick could function as the crew's captain essentially. Plus it would finally make good on those old plans to have him and Kory go to space. It really would need to lean more on the NTT stuff (which I haven't even really read).

[This post brought to you by our sponsers: How Much Mass Effect I've Been Playing and How Much Saga I've Been Reading]

Wouldn’t that work better as a Titans book than a Nightwing solo?

[Badou]

deathstroke #3 & 4

I really dislike the Rebirth version of this. Before it was Dick helping Rose and trying to put her on the right path against Deathstroke who was using her, but in Rebirth and under Priest he has it that now Deathstroke forced or manipulated Dick to train Rose and basically controlled the whole situation instead of it being something Dick did out of his own heroic will. It is just more instances of the lessening of Dick's character that we've seen repeatedly since the New 52 where they take agency and better stories away from him to elevate others or replace those stories with lesser ones.

Maybe Dick should’ve died in Batman 55 and instead of the Ric storyline, he spends that same time leading all the dead folk from HIC out of whatever limbo DC characters end up in between deaths.

Anything would have been better than what we got. It was the most lazy and dull story they could have come up with for it. There has been zero interesting developments or turns in this whole arc when this should be the time to experiment with different ideas. Everyone with half a brain guessed what would happen and it went exactly as expected with the stupid Nightwings and Ric being forced into action because no one put in any effort into this story, but then people like Lobdell want to shake their fist at fans for not enjoying the uninspired story we got.

Like anything would have been better. Dick dying and becoming a ghost and having to go all Deadman in trying to help people would have been better. Him dying and waking up in an alternative dimension would have been better. Even him waking up in the body of Batcow and having to go through this entire ordeal as Batcow would have been vastly better than what we got. Just anything with an ounce of creativity would have been better.