Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[Ascended]

It is really difficult, but what is the alternative to what they did?

Written him as an actual, legit Leaguer. That's what they could've done differently.

I was super hyped when I heard Vic was joining the League. It's where he belongs. But even though he's a part of the team, he's not really treated like it. I don't consider poor quality a viable substitute for bragging rights. It's an opportunity for the character that, so far, DC has completely wasted. They get him on the League, and barely use him. They give him these amazing new Fourth World upgrades, only to treat him as if he were exactly the same as before, but now he can open Boom Tubes. He's a demi-New God and DC has not capitalized on that fascinating concept in any way beyond making Vic a taxi. They got attention on the character, then waited years to try a solo, and tossed out some half-assed crap they put no effort into and blamed sales for canceling it. I dont see how he's actually benefited from being in the League. Now, if DC had actually *tried* to make Vic a big deal, and put some real thought and talent into him and gave him some real focus in the JL, that'd be a different story. But he's still treated like a C-lister, only instead of appearing in DC's second most famous team book, he's showing up in the most famous one (actually, he's not even in the main title much these days, so he's still in a secondary title!). It seems a small step to me, when it could, and should, have been a giant leap. I dont see how Vic's narrative has improved, I don't see how his standing in the world has increased by any worthwhile amount. He's not often getting swarmed by legions of fans like Superman, the President isn't calling him up begging for help.....Vic's little more important than he was, the only thing that changed is his co-workers are now much more famous.

If Dick joins then he can't be looked down on for not being a JL member anymore and that is kind of all I care about. I'm just sick of Dick not being a JL member in the comics being used against him and if that is all Dick gains from the whole thing then I'd count it as a massive win.

If the bragging rights are all that matters to you, that's cool. I've said through this whole thing that the only real, serious gain Dick would see are those intangible benefits of being able to claim League membership. And if that's what you're after, okay. I myself wouldn't be against the idea (most especially if he replaced Bruce, which will never happen but would be super keen) but Im not as concerned about the bragging rights as I am the quality of the material and Dick's exposure/profile, neither of which are helped in a large degree by joining the League.

I guess what Im saying is Dick is already a big enough character that joining the League isn't going to get him much more attention, or really change how DC treats him. That's why I called it a sideways promotion. Most of the benefits are intangible.

And changes of Dick's status quo usually also don't last that long. I doubt that Ric will last much longer than a year (two years at the very most).

Which is also part of the point I'm trying to make. Dick already has almost as much protection as the other guys, at least when it comes to seeing print. Quality is a whole different story of course, but even the big names aren't protected from bad creators.

I don't know. Being on the League didn't save Cyborg from having his solo cancelled or said solo being screwed with repeatedly back when it was going on. Hell, even Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter haven't really been protected from majorly bad decisions by their League status to the point they need constant reboots and retcons to be seen as salvageable.

That's my point. Being a League staple is going to help a character to an extent, but for Nightwing it'd be a pretty thin thing.

[Restingvoice]

So has anyone actually written something based on their ideas? I would, but I still need more research and I don't have a lot of time lately. If you have, you can link it here. I'd read it. No promises when I'll finish it though, like I said, busy, but if I have time... you know what. Private message me. That way it won't get lost since I don't visit as often anymore.

[dropkickjake]

I'm honestly not too high on Dick being in the Justice League. It could work if he spent more time being the best Spy of the DC universe, but even then I think the writers would rather use Batman for infiltration stuff. When it comes to team, I think (once again) YJ season 3 has it perfect for Dick. He's leading. He's recruiting. It's not the Justice League.

[Ascended]

So has anyone actually written something based on their ideas? I would, but I still need more research and I don't have a lot of time lately. If you have, you can link it here. I'd read it. No promises when I'll finish it though, like I said, busy, but if I have time... you know what. Private message me. That way it won't get lost since I don't visit as often anymore.

I haven't. I don't do fanfic (and have more interest/knowledge/skill in the editor's side of things anyway). But who knows, we've talked about this enough I've basically put a whole run together in my head.

Maybe this summer I'll take the time to write it out. Or at least the first issue. But this semester has been so crazy I've had to put my own projects aside, so I definitely don't have time for a Nightwing script that'll never get anywhere.

[Badou]

And Dick will still get looked down on whether he’s in the JL or not. Being in the JL isn’t actually that big of an accomplishment or feat, and even within the JL there is still a hierarchy. You have the trinity, then the 7, and then everyone else who has come and gone. Where do you think Dick would fall under.

It doesn’t matter if it actually overtakes the JL or not, that’s not really the point. The point is to have Dick be striving to create his own things and path. Cause at the end of the day Bruce, Diana, and Clark aren’t going anywhere and the only actual progression for Dick will come from nonlinear progression. Like Nightwing for example. Dick joining Bruce’s team does nothing, not really, he’s done it before and it did what. Its a futile linear, safe, predictable move that provides nothing Dick doesn’t already have besides some superficial status and a false sense of protection. The goal should not be for Dick to be looked at as the same. They don’t need more of the same, and Dick doesn’t need to be seen as more of the same. Better to be someplace he can be a star, and not someplace he’d be just a footnote. And if that means he needs to move on from the Titans cause some writers don’t understand what he is to that franchise, or do and still just want to exploit that while they undermine it, then he needs to move on. But that doesn’t mean it should be to the JL, where that’s gonna do even less for him than the Titans in the grand scheme of things.

Because Dick became Nightwing. Which spared him from Wally’s fate, and doesn’t create a war within a fan base like we see with the Lanterns. Wally fans shouldn’t jump at the chance for him to join the JL with Barry, because I would hope they have learned what that kind of stuff that will lead to. If Wally is going to coexist with Barry he needs to start being more different and not tread the same ground. If not it’s only Wally that will continue to pay the price. And Abnett’s run shouldn’t ever make sense. His whole thinking when it comes to the Titans is fundamentally flawed and nothing but detrimental to that franchise.

But Dick won't be penalized for not being on the JL. That is something he would gain and would be a massive advancement for the character. That is progression in my eyes. It isn't some false sense of progression that is only temporary that he gains when Bruce is away and Dick gets bumped up to the JL for a bit, but him joining the JL properly and is present for meetings that decide the course of the world and is called to be there when the other major heroes are called including Batman. That is something that he has never achieved. It is always put just out of his reach because DC doesn't want him and Batman on the same team, but I think that is stupid. If the JL is the end all be all then Dick should be part of it regardless of what role he plays in it. He can join the JL and do **** all in the team and I'd be fine just as long as him not being in the JL anymore isn't used against him. I mean there is a hierarchy regardless if Dick is part of the JL or not. He could be at the very bottom of the JL but if him not being a member isn't used against him anymore than I'd be more than satisfied.

The Titans are what Dick created to be his own thing and that has failed. Over and over again. So I don't see what doing something else that is another independent team will do that is different from the Titans. It will be put into the same position of Dick's team being penalized for not being the JL and will be undermined for not being part of the JL. What leads you do believe that a new team will be any different? Also Dick can join and create any number of new teams or old ones while still being part of the JL. It isn't like him being in the JL would prevent that when most other JL members get thrown on other teams all the time. Dick only gets stuck in garbage Titans teams that don't go anywhere. So I fail to see how he is better off where he is outside of the JL.

And remember it wasn't just Abnett's thinking that lead to the Titans in their current state. It was also Snyder's idea to fold the Titans into the JL. So this isn't some idea by Abnett but what the biggest creator at DC thinks of how the Titans and the hero teams should be structured.

[John Venus]

Make him a global hero. Travel the world and maybe even into space. Fight bad guys, sleep with beautiful women and team up with different heroes. Kind of like Brave and the Bold but with Nightwing in the lead instead of Batman. Have him laugh and enjoy himself. Make him an anti-Batman.

[oasis1313]

Make him a global hero. Travel the world and maybe even into space. Fight bad guys, sleep with beautiful women and team up with different heroes. Kind of like Brave and the Bold but with Nightwing in the lead instead of Batman. Have him laugh and enjoy himself. Make him an anti-Batman.

Sounds good to me. He should be like the favorite nephew of the DCU and turn up all over the place.

[dropkickjake]

Have the Titans actually failed though, or have two specific authors failed? Who has even tried other than Devin Grayson and Abnet?

[oasis1313]

Have the Titans actually failed though, or have two specific authors failed? Who has even tried other than Devin Grayson and Abnet?

Have they failed or have they been failed?

[WonderNight]

Make him a global hero. Travel the world and maybe even into space. Fight bad guys, sleep with beautiful women and team up with different heroes. Kind of like Brave and the Bold but with Nightwing in the lead instead of Batman. Have him laugh and enjoy himself. Make him an anti-Batman.

so basically agent 37 in an nightwing suit! In other words young justice outsiders nightwing.

Man grayson was the perfect nightwing book. Why are fans so willing to let it go but not bludhevan or titan?

[gregpersons]

so basically agent 37 in an nightwing suit! In other words young justice outsiders nightwing.

Man grayson was the perfect nightwing book. Why are fans so willing to let it go but not bludhevan or titan?

I couldn't agree more, Nightwing should be a traveling circus of crime-fighting.

[WonderNight]

I couldn't agree more, Nightwing should be a traveling circus of crime-fighting.

NO! Nightwing should be a traveling circus of whip-ass.

[oasis1313]

so basically agent 37 in an nightwing suit! In other words young justice outsiders nightwing.

Man grayson was the perfect nightwing book. Why are fans so willing to let it go but not bludhevan or titan?

It's not the fans--it's DC shoving him back into poisonous old niches.

[Vakanai]

To restore his memories Ric Grayson undergoes an experimental treatment, but everything goes haywire and he splits into the various eras of Robin and Nightwing he's been in the comics, complete with the costumes and art style of that era of his comic history. It is the League of Nightwings! A year long 12 issue event, not including variant covers and tie-ins with other titles.

[Ascended]

To restore his memories Ric Grayson undergoes an experimental treatment, but everything goes haywire and he splits into the various eras of Robin and Nightwing he's been in the comics, complete with the costumes and art style of that era of his comic history. It is the League of Nightwings! A year long 12 issue event, not including variant covers and tie-ins with other titles.

Ha! I'd read it.