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  1. #121
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Digging the discussion and ideas going on in here!

    Using a few of the ideas in here, these are a few arcs I think could work really well:

    Arc 1- Agent 37. Dick works a series of missions to help out his old pal Tony the Tiger, head of Spyral. These missions are all in places where the Justice League, or any hero, operating openly would cause an international incident (like perhaps Biyalia from Young Justice). Dick frees trafficked metahumans, prevents hostile coups led by disguised supervillains, intercepts alien weapons shipments on their way to hostile regimes. This arc, featuring Tiger, the Skull Girls, and other Grayson favorites, reaches its climax when Dick discovers that Tiger has lead Spyral back to its nefarious ways.

    Arc 2- Dick vs Spyral. This arc opens with a pitched battle at St Hadrian's. Dick has called in favors from the Titans and other heroes. Tiger was prepared for this assault, as he expected Nightwing to think like a hero. Dick, however, is thinking like a spy. Using the conflict as a distraction, Dick sneaks into Hadrian's (with the help of the Skull Girls perhaps), and steals vital intel on Spyral agents names and assignments. With this intel, Dick uses Batman Inc agents to fight Spyral from the shadows. This arc reaches it climax as Dick finally confronts Tiger and wrestles control of Spyral away from him.

    Throughout this arc, Dick has been preparing for the future. He has pitched his idea to Bruce and Lucias Fox to "diversify" Wayne Enterprises holdings by building the premier high rise casino in the heart of Bludhaven. By the end of arc two, Haly's Casino, with steel and glass architecture reminiscent of a three ring circus tent, has been completed and is open for business. This now functions as Dicks day job ("owner and operater"), home (penthouse suite like during his Batman days), Nightwing's lair, and Batman Inc/Spyral HQ.

    Arc 3- Dick gets a sidekick. There are many ways to go here, from bringing in Damian, some unused but preexisting character, or creating a new character specifically for the book. Giving him a protege, does a few things. First, it gives him a partner to talk to while he's in bludhaven, the importance of which cannot be understated. It also shows his progression as a hero, starting as a sidekick and coming full circle to training one himself. Finally, it would give him an increased pretense in Bludhaven, and someone to fight street thugs while he is away on spyral business.

    By the end of these three arcs, a new a status quo has been established. Dick is the director of a combined Spyral/Batman Inc. He lives in Haly's Casino. He defends Bludhaven as Nightwing (wearing a Young Justice inspired bird symbol costume) and gets hands on in the field as Spyral's director (wearing the Chuck Dixon era inspired chevron/finger stripes on his spy gear).

    This status quo opens the doors to important supporting character. I'd envision him having an important assistant director/secretary type character to deliver him briefings from agents in the field and through whom to deliver new assignments (more interesting to have this be a discussion than him opening emails). (I really would want Alfred for this role, but that may not work given his need to primarily be with Bruce.) Obviously his protege would be a huge supporting character. He could be a "home base" for Haly's circus when they aren't on tour.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    Digging the discussion and ideas going on in here!

    Using a few of the ideas in here, these are a few arcs I think could work really well:

    Arc 1- Agent 37. Dick works a series of missions to help out his old pal Tony the Tiger, head of Spyral. These missions are all in places where the Justice League, or any hero, operating openly would cause an international incident (like perhaps Biyalia from Young Justice). Dick frees trafficked metahumans, prevents hostile coups led by disguised supervillains, intercepts alien weapons shipments on their way to hostile regimes. This arc, featuring Tiger, the Skull Girls, and other Grayson favorites, reaches its climax when Dick discovers that Tiger has lead Spyral back to its nefarious ways.

    Arc 2- Dick vs Spyral. This arc opens with a pitched battle at St Hadrian's. Dick has called in favors from the Titans and other heroes. Tiger was prepared for this assault, as he expected Nightwing to think like a hero. Dick, however, is thinking like a spy. Using the conflict as a distraction, Dick sneaks into Hadrian's (with the help of the Skull Girls perhaps), and steals vital intel on Spyral agents names and assignments. With this intel, Dick uses Batman Inc agents to fight Spyral from the shadows. This arc reaches it climax as Dick finally confronts Tiger and wrestles control of Spyral away from him.

    Throughout this arc, Dick has been preparing for the future. He has pitched his idea to Bruce and Lucias Fox to "diversify" Wayne Enterprises holdings by building the premier high rise casino in the heart of Bludhaven. By the end of arc two, Haly's Casino, with steel and glass architecture reminiscent of a three ring circus tent, has been completed and is open for business. This now functions as Dicks day job ("owner and operater"), home (penthouse suite like during his Batman days), Nightwing's lair, and Batman Inc/Spyral HQ.

    Arc 3- Dick gets a sidekick. There are many ways to go here, from bringing in Damian, some unused but preexisting character, or creating a new character specifically for the book. Giving him a protege, does a few things. First, it gives him a partner to talk to while he's in bludhaven, the importance of which cannot be understated. It also shows his progression as a hero, starting as a sidekick and coming full circle to training one himself. Finally, it would give him an increased pretense in Bludhaven, and someone to fight street thugs while he is away on spyral business.

    By the end of these three arcs, a new a status quo has been established. Dick is the director of a combined Spyral/Batman Inc. He lives in Haly's Casino. He defends Bludhaven as Nightwing (wearing a Young Justice inspired bird symbol costume) and gets hands on in the field as Spyral's director (wearing the Chuck Dixon era inspired chevron/finger stripes on his spy gear).

    This status quo opens the doors to important supporting character. I'd envision him having an important assistant director/secretary type character to deliver him briefings from agents in the field and through whom to deliver new assignments (more interesting to have this be a discussion than him opening emails). (I really would want Alfred for this role, but that may not work given his need to primarily be with Bruce.) Obviously his protege would be a huge supporting character. He could be a "home base" for Haly's circus when they aren't on tour.
    What a bunch of fantastic ideas! I'd like to see Dick mentor a sidekick like Sasha, a young character who isn't pretty.

  3. #123
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I like the idea of Haley's Casino. That's nice. I dunno about having Dick base his Nightwing or Spyral work from there, but I really like the whole concept.

    Who gets to be the sidekick is always an issue, isn't it? An established character (no matter how Z-list) is going to be taken a little more seriously and have less of an uphill battle to prove him/herself to fans, and you avoid the "why is this new person taking panel time away from established heroes?" complaints (see: Duke). But a new character can be tailor made for this particular dynamic, designed to be the perfect sidekick for Dick, and it helps Nightwing establish an identity beyond Bruce's shadow in a way that taking in another lost Bat kid won't.

    I myself fall on the "established character" side of the fence.....but only barely, and mostly because I hold out hope that we could see Nightwing and Flamebird, together again for the first time since Krypton exploded.
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  4. #124
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Haley’s Casino really is a stellar idea. It would bring Bludhaven home for him. Give him and Bludhaven a personal connection that is kind of lacking.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 11-23-2018 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #125
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Haley’s Casino really is a stellar idea. It would bring Bludhaven home for him. Give him and Bludhaven a personal connection that is kind of lacking.
    Yep great Idea man. Haley's Casino could specialize in live entertainment like the circus used too. Dick could come to love bludhaven because it reminded him of home a.k.a haley's circus. You can even being in some of his circus family like the strongman from that episode of titans and be the head of security for the Casino.

    If dc want to keep bludhaven than it needs to become vegashaven again and have the city reflect nightwing not batman.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Yep great Idea man. Haley's Casino could specialize in live entertainment like the circus used too. Dick could come to love bludhaven because it reminded him of home a.k.a haley's circus. You can even being in some of his circus family like the strongman from that episode of titans and be the head of security for the Casino.

    If dc want to keep bludhaven than it needs to become vegashaven again and have the city reflect nightwing not batman.
    I'm liking these ideas more and more. I'd like to see the strongman (Clay, wasn't it?) back; he was nice. And my fav from Grayson #1: NINNEL. He could be like a Man Friday, maybe not too bright but fiercely loyal and he and Dick could go visit Warner Brothers cartoon characters together.

  7. #127
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I like the idea of having Flamebird by his side but she'd be much more of a partner than a sidekick, someone who would be capable of taking care of Bludhaven while Dick is away on Spyral business. I'd also keep their relationship platonic, not because she isn't a redhead but I like the idea of Male/female characters being close and not together all the time.

  8. #128
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    I want Bette as Flamebird back.
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  9. #129
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I like the idea of having Flamebird by his side but she'd be much more of a partner than a sidekick, someone who would be capable of taking care of Bludhaven while Dick is away on Spyral business. I'd also keep their relationship platonic, not because she isn't a redhead but I like the idea of Male/female characters being close and not together all the time.
    I'd definitely want to see Bette and Dick in a platonic relationship. But *would* she be more partner than sidekick? How trained is she? I mean, we barely see her anywhere, and Kate didn't think Bette was even ready for "active sidekick" duty yet and sent her off to West Point. I know Bette has a long history, but that history is pretty shallow and I don't feel like she's been written as being overly capable. I feel like she's on the same level as Tim Drake used to be; you could trust her to handle a regular patrol in the city by herself, but nothing more than that.
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  10. #130
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd definitely want to see Bette and Dick in a platonic relationship. But *would* she be more partner than sidekick? How trained is she? I mean, we barely see her anywhere, and Kate didn't think Bette was even ready for "active sidekick" duty yet and sent her off to West Point. I know Bette has a long history, but that history is pretty shallow and I don't feel like she's been written as being overly capable. I feel like she's on the same level as Tim Drake used to be; you could trust her to handle a regular patrol in the city by herself, but nothing more than that.

    Imo, that’s perfect. I was honestly thinking that someone roughly Spoiler level would be perfect. Someone to fight street thugs and maybe even some organized crime/mob, but if someone like Pyg shows up, they have to call the boss.

  11. #131
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd definitely want to see Bette and Dick in a platonic relationship. But *would* she be more partner than sidekick? How trained is she? I mean, we barely see her anywhere, and Kate didn't think Bette was even ready for "active sidekick" duty yet and sent her off to West Point. I know Bette has a long history, but that history is pretty shallow and I don't feel like she's been written as being overly capable. I feel like she's on the same level as Tim Drake used to be; you could trust her to handle a regular patrol in the city by herself, but nothing more than that.
    I'd be fine with her handling regular patrols, she wouldn't be on Dicks level so she would need help with high level threats but she wouldn't be alone. In my version of Vegashaven there would be other heroes around but they wouldn't all be on Nightwings team, they just work towards a common goal. I had characters like Owen Mercer and Gypsy in mind, along with Zatanna and Black Canary whenever they're in town.

  12. #132
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But *would* she be more partner than sidekick? How trained is she? I mean, we barely see her anywhere, and Kate didn't think Bette was even ready for "active sidekick" duty yet and sent her off to West Point.
    The bigger problem that no one seems to be taking into account is that this would require Bette to leave West Point or her five-year requirement if it happens anytime soon. She enrolled on her own, and barring some catastrophe, any reason she leaves the Academy will royally piss Kate off (and those catastrophes would bar her from vigilantism anyway).
    Last edited by Caivu; 11-24-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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  13. #133
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    The bigger problem that no one seems to be taking into account is that this would require Bette to leave West Point or her five-year requirement if it happens anytime soon. She enrolled on her own, and barring some catastrophe, any reason she leaves the Academy will royally piss Kate off (and those catastrophes would bar her from vigilantism anyway).
    You know, thats a valid point. Maybe she can join him later after she finishes or she can still quit early and piss Kate off anyway which'll lead a confrontation later on.

  14. #134
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    I think that the bigger problem is editorial direction. Bette is a Kate Kane supporting character for all intents and purposes right now. If TPTB decided to allow Bette to enter Nightwing's sphere rather than Kate's, the in universe explanations wouldn't be that difficult to come up with or farfetched.

    I haven't read much of Batwoman, so I could be off base here. With having been told no less than two times by Kate that she wasn't ready and that she didn't take things seriously enough, wouldn't it make perfect sense for Bette to seek training from Dick. He is known as a more lighthearted and fun loving hero, and he was once a protege of a grim broody bat who probably told him more than once that he wasn't ready. West Point? Maybe she was doing alright but knew it would never be good enough for Kate's standards. Maybe West Point just reeked of doing things Kate's way rather than her own. This could even make for an interesting dynamic with Dick, who despite seeming an easy going hero, was trained intensively by the Batman. Dick might have some internal conflict over wanting Bette to be able to do things her way (which is why he became Nightwing afterall) and having some of the same worries Kate did.

    Not sure that Bette is the way I'd go, but I do think it would make sense plot wise.

    I think this wouldn't work for many of the same reasons TPTB wouldn't want Bette to become a Nightwing character instead of a Batwoman character, but my choice would be Stephanie Brown. Bring Damian over to Bludhaven as well, either as Flamebird or Redwing (or was it Redbird?) and you've got yourself a little slice of the Batman reborn era living on in the haven.

  15. #135
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    If they can’t get a writer that will commit to fleshing out Buludhaven and giving it an unique identity, I’d rather it be scraped all together than continuing to beat that dead horse.

    I wouldn’t mind Dick getting something similar to an extended version of Green Arrow’s Hard Traveling Hero arc where Dick goes exploring through the DC universe. His adventures in other cities could last an issue, a couple or even an entire arc. Just give him a decent reason to leave while having some meta plot (is that even the right word?) that connects (almost) everything together and have some fun with it.

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