How do you give feeback to DC Comics?

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The 70's, mostly.

I would agree on this. Since coming on board, Didio tried to steer the DCU away from the Legacy Era of the 90s and back towards the classic Jose Luis Garcia Lopez DCU of the 1970/80s.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I would agree on this. Since coming on board, Didio tried to steer the DCU away from the Legacy Era of the 90s and back towards the classic Jose Luis Garcia Lopez DCU of the 1970/80s.

Which, by itself, is fine!

But then there's the way he decides to manage what doesn't fit into his vision and, oh, well...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Which, by itself, is fine!

But then there's the way he decides to manage what doesn't fit into his vision and, oh, well...

I would agree on this, too. I honestly don't understand how someone can look at this picture and think this group would be improved upon if it was revealed the wife of one of these people was sodomized by a super-villain, prompting the others to secretly lobotomize him so that same rapist could become a punching bag for their teen sidekicks.

[Buried Alien]

I would agree on this, too. I honestly don't understand how someone can look at this picture and think this group would be improved upon if it was revealed the wife of one of these people was sodomized by a super-villain, prompting the others to secretly lobotomize him so that same rapist could become a punching bag for their teen sidekicks.

You know that other discussion we're having on this forum about many of today's writers/editors having learned the wrong lessons from Alan Moore and WATCHMEN? Well...

I think the line of thought is, "We had some really cool characters back in the day, but the writing/stories were simplistic because of the time. What if we were to..."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You know that other discussion we're having on this forum about many of today's writers/editors having learned the wrong lessons from Alan Moore and WATCHMEN. Well...

I think the line of thought is, "We had some really cool characters back in the day, but the writing/stories were simplistic because of the time. What if we were to..."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yeah, it's too bad that simplicity and optimism became linked in the same way that too many linked cynicism with complexity.

Granted, if the comics industry hadn't made those mistakes, it couldn't have learned from them. While some will never learn, and are constantly rewarded for indulging their worst impulses like Mark Millar, there are lots of others who have gone on to create complex and challenging superhero tales that don't rely on easy tropes to make their stories "edgy".

That said, I think you can do dark and disturbing superhero material as long as there is sufficient craft and care being given to treating it properly. Identity Crisis half-worked, but not because of its questionable subject matter, which only ended up amplifying its faults. Cry for Justice was an utter disaster the likes of which I've never seen before. I'll reserve judgement on Heroes in Crisis until I read more, but I think the complex, emotional and ultimately hopeful work Tom King did with Mister Miracle has earned him a lot of good will from me.

As long as a comic is being produced from a place of truth, I want to read it. When it's coming from an attempt to simply shock or posture for credibility, it fails to interest me.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Yeah, it's too bad that simplicity and optimism became linked in the same way that too many linked cynicism with complexity.

Granted, if the comics industry hadn't made those mistakes, it couldn't have learned from them. While some will never learn, and are constantly rewarded for indulging their worst impulses like Mark Millar, there are lots of others who have gone on to create complex and challenging superhero tales that don't rely on easy tropes to make their stories "edgy".

I think we're pretty much on a place that editorial hasn't caught up with creatives. There have been multiple, successful attempts to go on a direction different than the "let's emulate mid 80's brutal pseudo-realism", but the universe seems to get always mandated back into it. (This is not exclusive to DC, but more true in it). That said, Millar does have quite a few works that escape from this formula.

That said, I think you can do dark and disturbing superhero material as long as there is sufficient craft and care being given to treating it properly. Identity Crisis half-worked, but not because of its questionable subject matter, which only ended up amplifying its faults. Cry for Justice was an utter disaster the likes of which I've never seen before. I'll reserve judgement on Heroes in Crisis until I read more, but I think the complex, emotional and ultimately hopeful work Tom King did with Mister Miracle has earned him a lot of good will from me.

I find King to be brilliant, yet I see very little Tom King on HiC so far. His "voice" is sorta there, but the story feels hollow and steered away from him.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think we're pretty much on a place that editorial hasn't caught up with creatives. There have been multiple, successful attempts to go on a direction different than the "let's emulate mid 80's brutal pseudo-realism", but the universe seems to get always mandated back into it. (This is not exclusive to DC, but more true in it). That said, Millar does have quite a few works that escape from this formula.

I find King to be brilliant, yet I see very little Tom King on HiC so far. His "voice" is sorta there, but the story feels hollow and steered away from him.

Since King's stories tend to be a slow burn, I still say it's way too early to know what Heroes in Crisis even is yet. King also doesn't strike me as a writer who'd let editorial mandate anything he wasn't comfortable with. If anything, he's a self-admitted control freak when it comes to his work. I'm sure Didio laid out a list of characters he could kill off, but, even then, he's not doing it in a vacuum. Originally, Bunker was planned to be part of the massacre at Sanctuary before King was talked out of it because he was one of the few gay teen heroes DC had, so Hot Spot took his spot as the teen hero cut down before his time. Tim Drake was also saved from the chopping block by King. I don't know if this story is going to be worth it, but it does not appear that King is letting Didio drive this ship.

As I said, as long as the story is coming from a place of truth, I don't care how dark it gets. Given King's own experiences with PTSD, I don't think Heroes in Crisis will be a repeat of Identity Crisis, in which a rape was thrown into a story that didn't need it by a less experienced comics writer who was far more willing to let editorial take the lead. Next week will tell the tale. If the story King is telling hasn't come into better focus by the third issue, I likely won't be picking up a fourth. I like a lot of it, but it hasn't clicked for me yet. Granted, I had a similar issue with Mister Miracle, which I was initially found too pretentious in the early going, before I ended up falling in love with it completely.

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As for Mark Millar, I agree he's certainly capable of writing better stuff, and there are plenty of examples of it. Unfortunately, he doesn't do it nearly enough because he knows indulging his inner-13 year old boy is easier and more financially lucrative than actually putting his heart into crafting a story without his usual crutches.

[liwanag]

I would agree on this. Since coming on board, Didio tried to steer the DCU away from the Legacy Era of the 90s and back towards the classic Jose Luis Garcia Lopez DCU of the 1970/80s.

gotta say the classic jose luis garcia lopez dcu looks great even today.

[byrd156]

gotta say the classic jose luis garcia lopez dcu looks great even today.

Classic is classic for a reason.