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  1. #46
    All-New Member 80sForever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Here is an article from a journalist who has grown tired of super-heroes stories:

    Superhero movies have never seemed more obscene

    I must say I understand her point of view. I mostly read super-heroes comics when I was a child and I never heard of Climate Change, biodiversity loss, ressource depletion… Have we really the luxury to lose ourselves in fantasy with so many pressing threats? Is it a nostalgia of simpler times?
    Your words also seem to be implying that we ought not read super-hero comics because the society sucks? Like I can actually change society and it is my moral obligation to stop pollution? That's one high horse. Humans are wired to play games. Stop judging us.

    On a related note:

    When supers try to solve fundamental problems on earth, time and time again they are depicted as overstepping their bounds (Squadron Supreme, Emperor Doom, Watchmen, The Authority, etc.).

    You may have no problems with Superman destroying all nukes, overthrowing North Korea, or fixing carbon emissions- and in fact, the Golden Age Superman did declare war on crooked politicians, traffic, and gambling. But the sheer majority of writers and readers know that Superman would be anointing himself a god if he tried to stop China from overfishing. At best this stuff works with heroes like Animal Man or Aquaman.

    Not sure why you never heard of climate change as a kid. Earth Day was celebrated at my school in the 1980s, and let's not forget Captain Planet in 1990.

  2. #47
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    I wouldn't go so far as to say Superman doing those things to some degree makes him problematic. That's just an assumption comics writers make

    But I don't at all get the idea of forgetting about climate change when we read superhero comics. makes no sense at all. People have never cared more about the environment than now.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Lantern wannabe View Post
    I sorta know the answer, but I'm hoping others can elaborate it for me, so I can get it clear in my head.

    I'm a long time member of this forum, and I like my DC comics, especially Batman, Green Lantern and, after the Robert Downey Jr movies, Iron Man. But I'm more a hard-core science fiction fan than a superhero fan, and I like the intellectual concepts inherent in that genre. Star Trek, of course, is the leading mass media example of that, when the writers ask, "What If?" as in, what if there was an alternate universe (the dark mirror episodes), or what if we had genetically-engineered humans (Khan Noonian Singh).

    Yes, superhero comics can also deal with serious issues, like arms dealing (Iron Man 1) or the corruption of the military-industrial complex (the original Robocop movie). But, while we can accept ourselves in a starship warping at faster-than-light speeds, we cannot accept a person putting on a cape and flying, or, for that matter, women showing cleavage and beating up on the bad guys. And yet we like them.

    I'm asking because I'm thinking of doing some writing, which I've been wanting to do for many years, and, yes, I'm thinking of the superhero genre.

    So why do we like superheroes in tights and capes?
    I love Star Trek personally but i wouldn't buy a star trek comic because for me the amount of information and data given in the shows just does not translate well and the visuals are not as exciting as what can be done in other mediums. So in terms of comics i usually steer clear of space stuff besides this latest GOTG run but i've watched all the Star Treks including Picard, Below Deck, and Discovery and loved them all. I have also watched Far Scape and use to like Star Wars but the prequels ruined it for me, i couldn't get past the idea that the past had way better tech than the future and then all of a sudden it was back to how it use to look (which was the right choice) but with no real expectation.

    As far as super hero comics i am not particularly tied to them besides mutants i guess which would be more of a personal connection as my 5th grade art teacher was obsessed with the xmen and had a huge banner he drew in our class. But as far as what they got on it doesn't matter to me if it's tights or not that is just simply how it is presented for the most part. I also feel super hero comics tend to be more visually appealing. I guess if space shows spent more time on planets rather than on ships i wouldn't get bored with seeing the same visual repetitively on panel.
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  4. #49
    Fantastic Member chongjasmine's Avatar
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    For me, I like superheroes because they are cool!
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son Jesus Christ, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

  5. #50
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    Reminder that this is a thread that's basically resurrected from the dead... Xheight is quoting two posts that are respectively 1 and 3 years old, so don't hold your breath waiting for a quick reply

    I'm somewhat confused by the original post since superhero stories are science fiction stories [last surviving alien baby lands on Earth; people gaining powers after being exposed to otherwise dangerous radiation, etc. etc.], and many of them delve into similar topics as the one the thread starter proposes as examples (alternate realities, genetically engineered humans).
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  6. #51
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    well, since the thread got necro'd...

    it sounds ludicrous to write these words but... superheroes have an advantage over Star Trek in that they are more consistently written as a reflection of the present and real world. that fact, all by itself, is going to help give superhero narratives much broader appeal than Star Trek.

    Star Trek is always been planted firmly in a VERY idealized futuristic space fantasy scenario. Star Trek is also even more blatantly utopian than many superhero stories. somehow the Earth has gotten rid of money, racism, resource scarcity, and a whole host of other problems that appear to be impossible to eradicate.

    it is also interesting to point out that when people attempt to abandon certain aspects of that utopian future in a desperate bid to make the franchise relevant... the old-school fans hate it.

    beyond a certain point, Star Trek becomes a sort of parallel superhero story for people who think they're too smart for spandex and capes. the Starfleet officers just use technobabble and impossible "physics" to save the day instead of superpowers and magic.

    I loved TOS and TNG when I was growing up. but, I gave up on DS9 after about a half-dozen episodes. Voyager lost me at three episodes. after that, I just didn't care about Trek at all. it had a sort of patronizing moralism that I would expect from direct-to-video Christian educational movies or safety protocol training videos. it just stopped being fun.

  7. #52
    Fantastic Member slop101's Avatar
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    Me, I mostly just like comic book ART, and my favorite artists (Jack Kirby, Alan Davis, George Perez, Barry Smith, etc, etc) all happen to draw superhero comics, mostly.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sForever View Post
    Your words also seem to be implying that we ought not read super-hero comics because the society sucks? Like I can actually change society and it is my moral obligation to stop pollution? That's one high horse. Humans are wired to play games. Stop judging us.

    On a related note:

    When supers try to solve fundamental problems on earth, time and time again they are depicted as overstepping their bounds (Squadron Supreme, Emperor Doom, Watchmen, The Authority, etc.).

    You may have no problems with Superman destroying all nukes, overthrowing North Korea, or fixing carbon emissions- and in fact, the Golden Age Superman did declare war on crooked politicians, traffic, and gambling. But the sheer majority of writers and readers know that Superman would be anointing himself a god if he tried to stop China from overfishing. At best this stuff works with heroes like Animal Man or Aquaman.

    Not sure why you never heard of climate change as a kid. Earth Day was celebrated at my school in the 1980s, and let's not forget Captain Planet in 1990.
    It might not be golden age but certainly Silver Age Defenders introduced to us not just the Guardians of the Galaxy but Ozone depletion and radiation dangers. So yes environment arrived as issue way back and fits with the sci-fi hazards of the genre.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormel View Post
    Reminder that this is a thread that's basically resurrected from the dead... Xheight is quoting two posts that are respectively 1 and 3 years old, so don't hold your breath waiting for a quick reply

    I'm somewhat confused by the original post since superhero stories are science fiction stories [last surviving alien baby lands on Earth; people gaining powers after being exposed to otherwise dangerous radiation, etc. etc.], and many of them delve into similar topics as the one the thread starter proposes as examples (alternate realities, genetically engineered humans).
    I agree Superheroes form a sub-genre if one has to be so formal about it of Sci-fi however it has certain tropes that a lot of Science Fiction by passes like power and responsibility in favor of technologic influenced structural changes to society and alien realities. As I note though there are other things beside literary genre elements that effect the popularity of sci-fi in comics that have to do with differences in the medium itself and how we experience them. For me for example there is no substitute for the wow factor in movies that moving space ships provide. On paper the fight for the Death Star or the battle with Khan in space does not translate the way that a fight between Spidey and the Green Goblin does.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    well, since the thread got necro'd...

    it sounds ludicrous to write these words but... superheroes have an advantage over Star Trek in that they are more consistently written as a reflection of the present and real world. that fact, all by itself, is going to help give superhero narratives much broader appeal than Star Trek.

    Star Trek is always been planted firmly in a VERY idealized futuristic space fantasy scenario. Star Trek is also even more blatantly utopian than many superhero stories. somehow the Earth has gotten rid of money, racism, resource scarcity, and a whole host of other problems that appear to be impossible to eradicate.

    it is also interesting to point out that when people attempt to abandon certain aspects of that utopian future in a desperate bid to make the franchise relevant... the old-school fans hate it.

    beyond a certain point, Star Trek becomes a sort of parallel superhero story for people who think they're too smart for spandex and capes. the Starfleet officers just use technobabble and impossible "physics" to save the day instead of superpowers and magic.

    I loved TOS and TNG when I was growing up. but, I gave up on DS9 after about a half-dozen episodes. Voyager lost me at three episodes. after that, I just didn't care about Trek at all. it had a sort of patronizing moralism that I would expect from direct-to-video Christian educational movies or safety protocol training videos. it just stopped being fun.
    great points because I can relate to the failed critical stance that Science Fiction once held over pure idealism. That so much of that idealism is linked to technology is very worrying despite current Trek trying so very hard to inject humanism and enlightenment into its stories it remains more about a kind of salvation rather than a look at the horror and inhumanity that humans encounter.

  11. #56
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    Hello, I also read about superheroes because Star Treck is not my atmosphere at all I do not like these comics for me they are boring unfortunately I used to read and I did not like the will about superheroes they are much better than star treck but everyone prefers other comics I already read about superheroes I've tried others for almost 2 years, but these are the best

  12. #57
    Concerned Citizen Citizen Kane's Avatar
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    I think the answer is much more simple than people realize: super hero comic books are just generally more visually appealing to the eye. A proper Star Trek comic series simply couldn't contend with the visuals of say a Batman or Justice League issue. However, that's not to say a Star Trek series couldn't be visually appealing or good. There are lots of stunning comic series where the art was less than "flashy" that still were amazing reads. I think it all ultimately comes down to super hero books being one of the "fast foods" of visual styles.
    Last edited by Citizen Kane; 11-23-2021 at 10:06 AM.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    I read superheroes comics like I read non-superheroes comics… If the story is good, if the characters are sympathetic…

    I started reading them when I was a child so I know some characters… But it’s true they have changed a lot.

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