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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member Hatut Zeraze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    I think more people would rather have the ability to level a city with their thoughts (or fists, or breath) than they would the opportunity to live in a utopian society.
    After the last two years, I can say, without hesitation, I would rather have the opportunity to live in a utopian society.

  2. #17
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatut Zeraze View Post
    After the last two years, I can say, without hesitation, I would rather have the opportunity to live in a utopian society.
    Anyone who's brain functions at a higher level than a chimpanzee's *should* prefer that option, but that's just IMHO...
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  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Anyone who's brain functions at a higher level than a chimpanzee's *should* prefer that option, but that's just IMHO...
    The Chinese have a curse, "May you live in interesting times". We fantasize about living lives that we would never want to go through - who wants to lose his parents, get traumatized, then put on a mask and risk his life beating up on criminals?

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I'm a fan of both Superheroes and Star Trek and have been since I was a kid. I've also read Star Trek comics and tbh, the quality is not that good. I think if they can get decent artists and find a writer that doesn't bore you to tears it could really take off.

  5. #20
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I'm a fan of both Superheroes and Star Trek and have been since I was a kid. I've also read Star Trek comics and tbh, the quality is not that good. I think if they can get decent artists and find a writer that doesn't bore you to tears it could really take off.
    Yeah, for all of its output, IDW's offerings have always been mediocre at best. I think the last time I truly enjoyed ST comics was when Wildstorm was doing them briefly in the early 00's.
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  6. #21
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Yeah, for all of its outpur, IDW's offering have always been mediocre at best. I think the last time I truly enjoyed ST comics was when Wildstorm was doing them briefly in the early 00's.
    I gave Wildstorm's TNG a try and granted the art was a lot better than the DC TNG comics years prior and the stories were an improvement. Now DS9's Marvel and Malibu comics were better in art and story and Garak was allowed to be the pansexual man that Andrew Robinson wanted to portray him as when he was introduced during his meeting with Bashir. Shortly after Robinson was asked to tone it down. The comics writer and Marvel didn't seem to have the same concerns as Paramount. The book still had its problems, though. I bought the Devided We Fall DS9/TNG crossover comic and liked some bits and the art was pretty good. It expanded on the Ezri Dax/Julian Bashir relationship that we only got a glimpse of in the final season of the show (and of course they break up later in the novels for realism as usual). But I can't help but think it could have been done in 1 issue. It was just stretched out too long with not much going on, really, to warrant 4 issues.

    I really love the art here. The artist was able to make them look exactly like their show counterparts while still being comic art. Past attempts of actor/actress likeness were very stiff IMO and just didn't have the boldness that comic art should have. The writer also seemed to have a good grasp on the characters.







    Now when IDW announced a comic that would focus on Data's return and a DS9 mini-series I was so happy. Because IDW has had a good track record of adapting loved tv/film properties successfully. But, that was not the case with these. Suffice to say Data's return and Fools Gold was, like many previous Trek comics, extremely boring. Even more boring then prior attempts and I didn't think that was possible. How the hell did IDW get this wrong? Usually what they touch becomes gold. IDW and Trek should have been the perfect match.

  7. #22
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I love supers and am ambivalent to Star Trek BUT ...

    I think Trek has handled the heavy themes 100x better than the best super hero stuff to date.
    Trek, despite its hundreds of hours of broadcasts, is far more focused than superhero comics. With a variety of style, titles, and characters, superhero comics can't focus on anything excpet that they're all kinda superheroey. That leaves a lot of superhero comics that don't even try to hit the focus Trek was taking. And those that did were the result of many sources. Some actually did a good job of covering heavy thems. Others not so much. Everything has its crap. Look at TOS season 3 and Star Trek V.

    As to why we might prefer Superhero comics to trek, I think superhero comics expand the imagination more and put us into the picture better than a story set hundreds of years in the future. I'm a fan of both and although I like a greater percentage of Trek than I do superhero comics, I can't really pick which I like better. But both can use more intense themes disguised in a science fiction motif. Superhero comics just don't always do that.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I love supers and am ambivalent to Star Trek BUT ...

    I think Trek has handled the heavy themes 100x better than the best super hero stuff to date.
    I love both pretty much equally. Star Trek was my first love and superheroes probably came not too far after, but I'm not sure I'd really agree with that. Star Trek can be very heavy handed and even when I agree with the message, which is usually, it can be pretty cringy. Everyone likes to bring up the episode with Frank Gorshin where it had the people with the black and white faces and it showed the silliness of racism. It's a great message... but the episode handles it with about as much subtlety as a marching band. Most of the other message episodes don't get better. TNG usually attacks messages from a place of such arrogance that I sometimes find it hard to agree with their conclusions even if I agree. That's not to say they're all like that, but I find most of the people who really like to focus on the heavy themes of Star Trek often times don't really watch Star Trek.

    Superheroes aren't perfect either and maybe even worse than Star Trek on a regular basis, but when they hit, they hit.

  9. #24
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    Most superhero comics are 'me' fantasies. Batman does X. Spider-Man does Y.

    Star Trek, in particular, is a team oriented franchise. There have been few, if any, significant solo stories, since it's generally at least an away team or bridge crew working together, if not the entire ship or station, that saves the day, not just 'the amazing solo adventures of Data.'

    As such, superheroes make for a good selfish sort of personal power fantasy. Daredevil fights alone. Superman *can* be part of the Justice League, but I can also read stories in which he stands alone against various forces of evil or threats to Earth. If I don't want to read a team book, I don't have to, I can read about the adventures of one single person, making a difference, and that's a different taste.

    I personally prefer team books, sometimes about younger heroes, sometimes adults, sometimes the elder generation (Legion of Super-Heroes, Teen Titans, Young Justice, Justice Society, etc. from DC, Runaways, Agents of Atlas, New X-Men, Avengers Academy, etc. from Marvel), and also am a bigger fan of Star Trek (which feels more '*we*' oriented and 'the whole team won' than, say, Star Wars, where the single very special chosen person with the most Midichlorian junk in their trunk wins the day), but I can see how the 'me' team has it's appeal, with characters who aren't just a cog in a wheel and don't have to share the glory. That said, even Star Trek has it's 'me' episodes, particularly when Kirk is involved, as he sometimes ends up alone saving the day. The classic episode with him vs. the Gorn captain would be a fine example, as it might as well have been a Kirk standalone story, with the crew forced to watch on TV as he fought alone.
    Last edited by Sutekh; 03-11-2019 at 08:53 AM.

  10. #25
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    I actually enjoy both superhero comics and star trek. What's not to like?

  11. #26
    Swollen Member GOLGO 13's Avatar
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    One is highly simplistic entertainment with daddy wish fulfillment fantasies focused mostly to market more toys.

    The other is more nuanced & doesn't hide from complex & thought provoking issues. Star Trek toys have always sucked & displaying them makes you look like a super-nerdy tool.

  12. #27
    Amazing Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Default Fiction of Ethics

    Star Trek Fan and passionate comic fan whose favorite heroes are very science fiction based (except Dr. Strange) Iron Man and FF.
    So I get where the OP is coming from but it seems more true over years that, from its origins to today's most engaging stories, SuperHero fiction is exactly what wikipedia says "speculative fiction examining the adventures, personalities and ethics of costumed crime fighters" or as someone once pointed out if Science fiction is the fiction of ideas surrounding science and technology then SuperHeroes are the ground work for thinking about power, crime and consequence in a modern age of new powers and situations that are extra-ordinary.

    We see this in the pulp origins of supers fighting crime that regular cops (read as regular society) are not able to deal with. And while Star Trek and other sci-fi deal in ethical situations and crimes most often these involve ideas inherent in the tech or conduct of science not the human conduct or motives of people given power.

    So what is it that we are talking about when the topic of wish fulfillment comes up and is not the but main driver of Science Fiction?
    I would say it is still Justice. The idea that power be in the hands of the righteous or that there is a balance in the Universe for the abuses of power. That Crime does not pay as they used to say in the old Shadow radio serials.
    Last edited by Xheight; 04-29-2019 at 08:03 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    I suppose that Star Trek is more thought provoking than most geek media, but this doesn't exactly work in its favor because once you do start thinking about the deeper meanings and implications of what they're talking about, you quickly discover that it's just as nonsensical and incoherent as anything you'd find in comics. Though to be fair, comics sort of lean too far in the other direction of not trying to explain or rationalize anything. I suppose the best speculative fiction finds a good middle ground where it gives you the impression of something profound, but throws a big explosion in your face whenever you start thinking about it too hard. A great example of this is the Mass Effect series which pulled this off beautifully, at least until the ending to 3 ruined it all.

  14. #29
    Amazing Member Xheight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    I suppose that Star Trek is more thought provoking than most geek media, but this doesn't exactly work in its favor because once you do start thinking about the deeper meanings and implications of what they're talking about, you quickly discover that it's just as nonsensical and incoherent as anything you'd find in comics. Though to be fair, comics sort of lean too far in the other direction of not trying to explain or rationalize anything. I suppose the best speculative fiction finds a good middle ground where it gives you the impression of something profound, but throws a big explosion in your face whenever you start thinking about it too hard. A great example of this is the Mass Effect series which pulled this off beautifully, at least until the ending to 3 ruined it all.
    I think you have to factor in what expectations are of who the audience is. Creators and especially collaborative media creators are also worried that they will lose or speak over the head of their masses. I think you can see how that changed from Star Trek to Next Generation as the idea of what the attention span is grew.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Well superheroes originated in comicbooks and the themes are based on action, adventure, super powers and good vs evil.

    Star Trek started as a thought-provoking and science-based TV show. Seems more mature oriented than pure escapism. It can be both, sure, but superheroes are pure wish-fulfillment and seem more populist to me.

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