*Nods to k von doom* Teams Defend Helms Deep

[Nik Hasta]

Thought this might be an interesting thought experiment. A couple of teams have to run the Helms Deep defence until reinforcements show up.

General Note: All prep time can also include venturing/scouting outside the castle gates to scout/assassinate/harass/etc the oncoming forces. All teams know that the army will arrive at the appointed time and they must hold the castle to the best of their ability. They know that reinforcements are on the way but they do not know when they will be arriving.

Scenario 1: Orcs Are A Cowardly And Superstitious Lot.
The united forces of the Batman Family have to hold the line!

Team: Batfamily
- Batman (Bruce Wayne)
- Robin (Damien Wayne)
- Nightwing (Dick Grayson)
- Batgirl (Barbara Gordon)
- Batwoman (Kate Kane)
- Black Bat (Cassandra Cain)
- Azrael (Jean Paul Valley)
- Huntress (Helena Bertinelli)
- Red Robin (Tim Drake)
- Spoiler (Stephanie Brown)
- Red Hood (Jason Todd)
- Alfred Pennyworth

Stipulations: The Bat Clan gets three days of prep time. They have all their normal gear, full utility belts and all weaponry and resources available in Helm's Deep itself. Alfred has a small workshop to whip up small scale variations on classic utility belt gear. He could, for example, make a batch of sonic grenades for each fighter but he only has three days before the siege begins in earnest. The team gets one Batmobile vehicle, it cannot be the flying variant.

Scenario 2: Lay Down Suppressing Fire!
A bunch of dudes with guns establish a kill box.

Team Guns!Guns!Guns!
- John Wick
- John Matrix
- John McClane
- Duke (Predator) and his crew
- Rambo
- Jason Bourne
- The Expendables (Full roster)
- Furiosa (Mad Max)
- Neo (Specifically from the lobby scene in the first Matrix film.)
- The Punisher (Netflix series)

Stipulations: The team get one day of strategy meeting and prep time. They all come with their standard gear with plenty of ammunition for guns but they do not have refills on any grenades or explosives. They also have all resources normally contained within Helm's Deep. Neo's powers do not grow beyond the point they were at in the lobby scene in the first Matrix film, he /does not/ have access to bullet time at this moment.

Scenario 3: Orcs Aren't Vampires But Close Enough!
A team of vampire hunters/fighters take on the orcish hordes!

Team Vampire Hunters:
- Buffy Summers (Buffy)
- Angel (Angel)
- Blade (Blade Movies)
- Trevor Belmont (Castlevania Netflx)
- Sypha Belnades (Castlevania Netflix)
- Van Helsing and Cog (Van Helsing film version)
- Jefferson Twilight (Venture Brothers)
- Selene (Underworld)
- Saya Otonashi (Blood: The Last Vampire)
- Marceline the Vampire Queen (Adventure Time)

Stipulations: The team get two days of strategy meeting and prep time. Buffy has her scythe, Trevor has the morning star from season two, Van Helsing is not infected with lycanthropy and Marceline does not have access to the cloud demon form she gained from the events of Stakes. Otherwise, everyone has their standard equipment plus whatever is in Helm's Deep. Cog has a small workshop and two days to make tools/gadgets for the squad.

Scenario 4: One, Two, Do the Kung Fu!
Weapons? We don't need weapons. We ARE weapons!

Team Kung Fu:
- Shang Chi
- Richard Dragon
- Lady Shiva
- Bronze Tiger
- Constantine Drakkon
- Bride of Nine Spiders
- Dog Brother #1
- Tiger's Beautiful Daughter
- Chinmi, Tantan and Shifan (Tekken Chinmi)
- Donut, Coolie and Tailor (Kung Fu Hustle)
- Baki Hanma (Circa the end of Search for Our Strongest Hero)
- Tokita Ohma (Kengan Asura)
- Masataka Takayanagi (Tenjou Tenge)

Stipulations: The team gets two weeks to train together /not in Helm's Deep/ and three days of prep time at the location. Baki is taken from the end of Search for Our Strongest Hero, Chinmi, Tantan and Shifan are all from the end of Tekken Chinmi Legends, Ohma is from his battle with Raion, Masataka has two biological hands but is otherwise from end of series. Everyone brings their own weapons plus there's whatever is in Helm's Deep itself.

Can these teams for it against the 10,000 orcs and all of their resources? Yes? No? How far do they get?

BONUS SCENARIO: PARTY MODE ENGAGED!

If no single team can do it then all four teams combine and have two weeks of training together elsewhere and four days or prep in situ. Can they do it as a full squad?

[The MunchKING]

- Marceline the Vampire Queen (Adventure Time)

They were NOT ready for a giant soul-devouring quasi-immortal Cloud Lion thing bigger than Helms deep itself to jump in and just absorb their souls while smashing their bodies.

So they better make sure they do NOT piss her off worse than her ordinary "Oh, people are trying to kill me" levels of mad. Because she is NOT afraid to bust out her unholy vengeance if she freaks.

[Nik Hasta]

They were NOT ready for a giant soul-devouring quasi-immortal Cloud Lion thing bigger than Helms deep itself to jump in and just absorb their souls while smashing their bodies.

So they better make sure they do NOT piss her off worse than her ordinary "Oh, people are trying to kill me" levels of mad. Because she is NOT afraid to bust out her unholy vengeance if she freaks.

Check the stipulations. Marceline doesn't have access to her cloud demon form thing. Just her regular transformations.

[The MunchKING]

So she can STILL rip souls (that one was her Half-demon side, not her Vampire evil), but it's more close range. And instead of "Bigger than Helm's Deep", she's merely 20 foot tall Bat-demon thing swinging a giant axe. Oh and she has invisibility, near instant healing from any wounds and flight.

If she cares enough to put in the effort, she'll get a body count. Whether it's enough to save those Humans at Helm's Deep or the Orcs end up going around while she's killing a few of them would depend on how focused she is on holding the line.

EDIT: Left out the Pyrokenisis and Necromancy. If there were enough corpses, she could raise an army of the Undead to defend Helm's Deep.

[big_adventure]

There are individuals on the Kung Fu side that can take this.

And on the "suppressing fire" side, there are a large number of superhumanly accurate people with automatic weapons and "plenty of ammo" INCLUDING A MINIGUN there. No Orc gets within 100m of the fortress.

[Nik Hasta]

I don't think there are individuals who could do it alone in team kung fu. 10,000 is a metric shit ton of dudes and with arrows flying everywhere and explosive dudes and catapults etc.

Remember, their job is to hold the castle. I don't think one person could do that barring extreme supernatural powers.

[big_adventure]

I don't think there are individuals who could do it alone in team kung fu. 10,000 is a metric shit ton of dudes and with arrows flying everywhere and explosive dudes and catapults etc.

Remember, their job is to hold the castle. I don't think one person could do that barring extreme supernatural powers.

Thing is, a couple of them have pretty extreme supernatural powers. Bride of 9 Spiders goes all spidery and just stings them all well outside the grounds : hoards of bullet-time spiders aren't a joke, and will prove intensely terrifying besides. And this is to ignore that she, Dog Brother and Tiger's Beautiful Daughter are all in the "Immortal Weapons" class and thus have "Immortal Weapons Ki Bullshit" as part of their schtick. Granted, not all are the same, or even close, but they are all "protectors of secret holy cities designed and created to stand against attacking armies all by their lonesomes." It's kind of in the job description. Also, there are numerous solid to high-end bullet-timers here who EASILY one-shot Uruk-Hai class foes. Leave a couple to guard an obvious, but limited-width entrance, and send a couple of them to find the chief. The issue for the Uruk-Hai here is that they have no real way to control the engagement. Shang Chi with his back to a wall can kill 10K by himself. Shang with Dog Brother next to him can block a 5 meter wide passage until it's literally clogged Uruk-High, er, floor to ceiling with Uruk corpses. They can't fly, they don't have AoE's, they can't bring siege weapons to bear, they don't have magic, and their only missile weapons are no more threatening than mosquitos to bullet-timers.

[Nik Hasta]

Thing is, a couple of them have pretty extreme supernatural powers. Bride of 9 Spiders goes all spidery and just stings them all well outside the grounds : hoards of bullet-time spiders aren't a joke, and will prove intensely terrifying besides.

Okay, first off - bullet time spiders? Imma need a feat to remotely corroborate that.

Largest cloud of spiders I've seen the Bride turn into is enough to semi-envelope a single fighter. That's not going to stop an army of 10,000 dudes.

And this is to ignore that she, Dog Brother and Tiger's Beautiful Daughter are all in the "Immortal Weapons" class and thus have "Immortal Weapons Ki Bullshit" as part of their schtick. Granted, not all are the same, or even close, but they are all "protectors of secret holy cities designed and created to stand against attacking armies all by their lonesomes." It's kind of in the job description.

Feats? From the comics I've got, Tiger's Daughter is below Steel Phoenix/Serpent in terms of stats which makes her significantly below Iron Fist. Dog Brother #1 is a dude who is skilled with swords and has a team of dogs. The position of "Immortal Weapon," doesn't confer any form of base stats of abilities. Based on their actual feats, they could kill a bunch of dudes but would get overwhelmed.

Also, there are numerous solid to high-end bullet-timers here who EASILY one-shot Uruk-Hai class foes. Leave a couple to guard an obvious, but limited-width entrance, and send a couple of them to find the chief. The issue for the Uruk-Hai here is that they have no real way to control the engagement. Shang Chi with his back to a wall can kill 10K by himself. Shang with Dog Brother next to him can block a 5 meter wide passage until it's literally clogged Uruk-High, er, floor to ceiling with Uruk corpses. They can't fly, they don't have AoE's, they can't bring siege weapons to bear, they don't have magic, and their only missile weapons are no more threatening than mosquitos to bullet-timers.

Shang Chi is a bullet timer true. I'll stress that he doesn't have limitless stamina. He can't fight 10,000 guys by himself, that's a no-limits fallacy.

Baki, by the end of Search For Our Strongest Hero doesn't have feats that really indicate bullet time speed. His best feats came about in the Baki-Dou series which he's not done yet. He's still metahuman but isn't a bullet timer.

Masataka is metahuman in speed but again, doesn't have bullet timer feats. He also doesn't have the stamina or durability to go up against 10,000 dudes alone.

Everyone else is ringer to peak human.

All of them are vulnerable to being cut, stabbed, arrow-ed etc. Heck, the orcs could just use suicide bombs on problematic dudes.

And, it's a castle. There are 10,000 dudes climbing over the walls, blowing holes in it etc. The topography doesn't allow for a single dude to hold the castle.

[big_adventure]

I hear your arguments, all have merit, and all can be discussed. :-)

Here we go:

1. All Immortal Weapons have chi shenanigans. All can self heal, stave off fatigue, boost stats, etc. Dog Brother's origin story specifically says that his skills and abilities are transferred from one to his chosen successor by the ritual they use (old guy finds new guy, lays down his gear and makes the newbie kill him. Chi and skill flow from one to the other). All of them have been in battle royales against bad guys with the other Weapons, and it wasn't like ""Danny and Cobra do all the work, others sit on the back burner and do nothing." Yes, Tiger's offspring lost to Davos, but she took his hand in the fight, and Davos has always been close to Danny's level in combat. Puppy Chow lost, but not easily, and to one of the "named guys," wrecking him pretty well in the process. No, they don't have hundreds of issues of appearances, but they are explicitly presented as "within range of Danny and Cobra" and certainly lack feats showing/proving the contrary.

2. Spiders : yeah, sure, I may be overstating the amount of spiders. Let's withdraw the point to some extent, but let's agree that they'd be awesome for blocking passages, sealing breaches, and generally causing some havoc. As far as their speed, they are fast enough to swarm Immortal Weapons, who are all at the VERY LEAST going to be low-end bullet timers.

3. Orcs are really crappy at strategy other than "run really fast towards enemy." If you show the charging Orcs an open door, they are going to run into it. There is absolutely nothing contradicting this in any of their presentation that I recall. And if you rotate 2 or 3 of the faster, better fighters at that point, you're going to kill a LOT of Orcs.

4. Holding the fort is relative: if they don't kill basically every single one of the defenders, they lose, eventually. This isn't some Call of Duty co-op capture the flag situation.

5. Suicide bombers, on guys who are MUCH faster then the orcs? And who will be surrounded with Orc carcasses? Not really a viable strat, if they had anyone on their side remotely capable of coming up with such a strat.

That's how I see it.