War Of The Realms Event!

[Snoop Dogg]

So I'm curious, why exactly should we care about the War of the Realms?

I'm not trying to be dismissive (though I am not a fan of Aaron's Thor by any measure), it's just that I don't see what the hook is for everyone who isn't Thor's supporting cast.

In Secret Invasion, there was at least the threat of heroes learning that friends and family had been replace (which never happened).

In Blackest Night, we had emotional conflicts between the living and unrelenting living dead.

What's the appeal/crux here that goes beyond 'X character punching a mythological beasty'?

The main instigator is a boring sociopath. His generals are all mustache twirlers who don't even need earth. Why exactly should we give a damn? I understand that suspension of disbelief is a requirement for crossovers, but writers need to meet us half way. And I'm not seeing it

It doesn't have a greater MU-hook like Secret Empire and whatnot because it wasn't designed to have one. It is a Thor/Asgard story that we know was turned into an event by editorial not because it's also a story about the MU, but because the Thor story is better served by it involving the MU. But all of its tie-ins are justified by doing the smart event thing, where the book sets up these playgrounds for different books to play in, which in this case are the different continents taken over by the Dark Council.

[JKtheMac]

Of course by "take those criticisms to task" you mean handwave them away like you always do, usually by implying the critic has an ulterior motive.

You seem to imply I am never critical of Aaron. That isn’t true at all. He makes mistakes like everyone else, he sometimes buries his story in subtext when it might be better brought closer to the surface. But claiming things like Jane is just a Mary Sue is demonstrably absurd. Claiming he hates Thor or Odin is not a criticism, it’s an unfounded accusation.

[Snoop Dogg]

The only problem with the Thor side of Jason's stuff right now is that we haven't gotten a new hammer that he can throw that then explodes into a hundred other hammers.

[The Cool Thatguy]

What am I supposed to say? If you don’t ‘give a damn’ surely that is the end of your involvement? ‘Please sell me on’ questions are pretty unlikely to result in anything meaningful unless the person is in the market for a product. If you are not then don’t read it,

Honestly, given that this stories has dragged on for 4 years now, I'd expect the build up to some kind of interesting climax.

Because all I've seen of War of the Realms thus far is evil armies marching on places we don't give a damn about. The most basic part of story telling is to make your readers have an emotional investment.

Aaron has had 4 years to do that with this story. To tease the battles and conflicts to come, to use it as a greater metaphor for anything. One would hope that we've waited 4 years for an actual reason.

[Alpha to Omega]

You seem to imply I am never critical of Aaron. That isn’t true at all. He makes mistakes like everyone else, he sometimes buries his story in subtext when it might be better brought closer to the surface. But claiming things like Jane is just a Mary Sue is demonstrably absurd. Claiming he hates Thor or Odin is not a criticism, it’s an unfounded accusation.

I'm not implying anything, I'm outright stating that you have a long track record of ignoring and/or handwaving away valid criticisms of Aaron's work.

[Daedra]

Nobody was attacking posters. The ideas that these posters were expressing were being challenged. This is a thread about an event, not a ‘we hate Aaron’ thread.

It is us that were reacting not the other way around. If we were standing around talking about our favourite pork dishes and someone walked up to us and started saying how much they hated pork over and over and then was joined by three or four other people making jokes about pork, the same thing would happen.

Sorry but it's not for you to decide which opinion should be allowed or not in this thread

Well consider us mutually astonished, given the universal adoration that Aaron receives everywhere I look aside from ironically the Thor appreciation thread.

Criticism of his writing is absolutely to be encouraged, but don’t be surprised if those of us that have spent a lot of time analysing his themes and approach will take those criticisms to task if we think they are not fair.

then stop talking about the posters and concentrate on the comic itself, the point is to "take to task" the opinion expressed not the people expressing it

[Ravin' Ray]

Ok folks, in as much as opinions here have spanned the spectrum of praise to criticism of the event, let's keep ourselves focused on the story itself and not criticize those who disagree with us. It is giving the discussion a mood of casting aspersions on the objectivity of posters.

[JKtheMac]

Honestly, given that this stories has dragged on for 4 years now, I'd expect the build up to some kind of interesting climax.

Because all I've seen of War of the Realms thus far is evil armies marching on places we don't give a damn about. The most basic part of story telling is to make your readers have an emotional investment.

Aaron has had 4 years to do that with this story. To tease the battles and conflicts to come, to use it as a greater metaphor for anything. One would hope that we've waited 4 years for an actual reason.

Well let’s examine that point specifically. Yes you are correct the War has been going on for a number of years, but it hasn’t been the focus of any of the stories so much as a backdrop and context. Aaron has focused on specific moments in that conflict as a way of telling other stories, but has equally ignored it to tell others.

The story about the new Thor’s identity was only partly related to the war, which had only just started. The fight with Odin was tied to the war by analogy, because the main story was about the breakdown of a political marriage while Malekith was engineering his own. The story of Jane’s god contest was a diversion from the war. The story of Yggdrasil being taken out was just as much about fate and a setup for the final chapters as it was a decisive part of the war. The story of Mangog is again a diversion, and was much more about self sacrifice. The war in Hel was mostly about moving specific personalities to different positions and setup.

All along we have had stories far more focused on exploring the underlying assumptions and basic tenants of Thor comics. Like the War Thor story or again the god contest. Like the Thor stories before Jane.

To characterise the war as just armies marching around would be the same as saying Lord of the Rings or Game of Thones are just armies marching around. True, but not particularly representative of the actual story being told.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well let’s examine that point specifically. Yes you are correct the War has been going on for a number of years, but it hasn’t been the focus of any of the stories so much as a backdrop and context. Aaron has focused on specific moments in that conflict as a way of telling other stories, but has equally ignored it to tell others.

The story about the new Thor’s identity was only partly related to the war, which had only just started. The fight with Odin was tied to the war by analogy, because the main story was about the breakdown of a political marriage while Malekith was engineering his own. The story of Jane’s god contest was a diversion from the war. The story of Yggdrasil being taken out was just as much about fate and a setup for the final chapters as it was a decisive part of the war. The story of Mangog is again a diversion, and was much more about self sacrifice. The war in Hel was mostly about moving specific personalities to different positions and setup.

All along we have had stories far more focused on exploring the underlying assumptions and basic tenants of Thor comics. Like the War Thor story or again the god contest. Like the Thor stories before Jane.

To characterise the war as just armies marching around would be the same as saying Lord of the Rings or Game of Thones are just armies marching around. True, but not particularly representative of the actual story being told.

So what exactly is representative of the story as a whole, then?

Because telling me what it is not, isn't the same as telling me what it is.

[JKtheMac]

So what exactly is representative of the story as a whole, then?

Because telling me what it is not, isn't the same as telling me what it is.

I just said what was.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I just said what was.

You did not. You simply explained how it wasn't the focus on certain arcs, but in the background and why.

So lets have it. What is the crux of the War of the Realms, now that it's front and center?

[charliehustle415]

You did not. You simply explained how it wasn't the focus on certain arcs, but in the background and why.

So lets have it. What is the crux of the War of the Realms, now that it's front and center?

70's era side of van, fever dream

[Paradox_Nihil]

To characterise the war as just armies marching around would be the same as saying Lord of the Rings or Game of Thones are just armies marching around. True, but not particularly representative of the actual story being told.

Come on, man! This would have been a excellent joke, if only it had been funny. "Letters marching on white paper" would be semantically (or poetically?) true, but armies? Why not say those are the books about trees standing (or maybe not?) in forests? There are many prominent forests in both series. And the joke would be half-successful, at least. Or, if you had mentioned Malazan Book of the Fallen or parts of The Silmarillion...maybe...in some sense...but at least we could have argued, and so this is just a failed attempt to provide even the most nebulous of analogies.

In the case I have to draw with figurative crayon the meaning of my criticism here, let's say it this way: The War of the Realms is ACTUALLY about armies... well, "small groups" is a more accurate term, marching around...well, "fighting" is more accurate, in the foreground. It may be ungrateful to judge only the main event in isolation, but it's a valid, if arguable perspective. For now, at least. So, I will refrain from further comments about the series itself, until it's finished.

And no comic has ever come close to those literary works in terms of pure worldbuilding. Kirby was the closest, in terms of imagination; Alan Moore, in terms of rigid methodology; and Aaron is not anywhere near those two in the respective areas. (That's not a criticism; very few are.)

[JKtheMac]

You did not. You simply explained how it wasn't the focus on certain arcs, but in the background and why.

So lets have it. What is the crux of the War of the Realms, now that it's front and center?

I have no idea what you are asking me. Are you asking what is going to happen? No idea but above I made a pretty extensive post on what the themes are going in and how that will probably shape the story. I also just gave you a spotted list of themes that Aaron’s run has focused on in my reply to you. Bear in mind you were specifically asking about the war so far. I have already declined to try and sell you to the event.

Are you asking why you should like it? You will probably hate it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I have no idea what you are asking me. Are you asking what is going to happen? No idea but above I made a pretty extensive post on what the themes are going in and how that will probably shape the story. I also just gave you a spotted list of themes that Aaron’s run has focused on in my reply to you. Bear in mind you were specifically asking about the war so far. I have already declined to try and sell you to the event.

Are you asking why you should like it? You will probably hate it.

I'm asking what's the crux? Boil down the War of the Realms, and what do we get?

You said it's more than a bunch of armies invading earth, yet again. Okay, so what is that greater picture?