War Of The Realms Event!

[voidox]

She was right there on that very day doing that. Thus began the story of the War. A bad guy and a good guy who happened to be a girl. Not sure why you want to argue that point. That is how stories work.

first off, the day of the announcement, jane was in the hospital, so Malekith announced and "started" the war without jane even being around. I mean, this is argument about semantics but I just don't see how you can say Jane started the story of the war when that is just factually not true.

also... mate, please read what I'm writing...

jane was ONE of the people who was calling for action, hell her first meeting with the council post-announcement was with Volstagg who was also calling for action... of course we saw more of her doing that since she was the main character of the book at the time and the focus was on her.

And again, I didn't deny there were characters who were ignoring the threat and call to action and all that.... but no, the story of the war did not begin with her.... it began when Malekith got free, Thor's initial dealing with him, the civil war, the dark council, the massacre of the light elves and then Malekith announcing his war of the realms.

And even after his announcement, SO MANY other characters had already or started dealing with malekith and his allies and the affects of the war on the other realms, Thor himself being one of them.

You saying this is somehow "jane's war" is ridiculous and just ignoring so much of what was going on before the war came to earth :/ Again, Aaron himself didn't call it "jane's war" or "malekith vs jane"... it's called "the war of the realms" for a reason~

A bad guy and a good guy who happened to be a girl.

....what?

[JKtheMac]

lol sure, I never said Aaron hates thor... just that in the face of how hard aaron favours and pushes jane, isn't that much of a stretch to say he's a jane foster fan than a thor fan xD

I consider it a huge stretch. I mean he has become a fan of Jane too. Only natural. So have I. I don’t think for one minute that the guy who writes Thor for a living thinks his own version is better than the one he is effectively telling the story about. That’s not why he made her Thor. That’s not why he is bringing her back. See my last post in the Thor Appreciation thread. He probably wouldn’t have switched back to Odinson if it wasn’t for internal Marvel politics.

For example one of the points you made was ‘Why Jane’, well Aaron has been asked that in interviews. His answer was that he had the idea for the story before he settled on who it would be. He and his editor went through various options and when Jane came up they considered her to be the best choice for what they were trying to achieve. So the answer is effectively because she allows Aaron to tell the story he wanted to tell. What’s wrong with that?

[voidox]

I consider it a huge stretch. I mean he has become a fan of Jane too.

lol, the way he treats and writes her, arguably, he's always been more a fan of Jane than Thor... taking her from nothing love interest of the past to more important than Odin~

That’s not why he made her Thor. That’s not why he is bringing her back.

says... you.... your opinion once again... cool~

He probably wouldn’t have switched back to Odinson if it wasn’t for internal Marvel politics.

lol, contradicting yourself again here... wouldn't this mean he's more a fan of Jane than thor that he'd want to write her rather than thor

For example one of the points you made was ‘Why Jane’, well Aaron has been asked that in interviews. His answer was that he had the idea for the story before he settled on who it would be. He and his editor went through various options and when Jane came up they considered her to be the best choice for what they were trying to achieve. So the answer is effectively because she allows Aaron to tell the story he wanted to tell. What’s wrong with that?

mate... stop, I am not arguing about Jane becoming thor and this was never the issue brought up by people in this thread... we are talking about the war of the realms and part of my problems with Jane here (e.g why jane) are about her involvement in this event and her being pushed/favored at the expense of other characters, amongst other things, during this event

the only reason I have even brought up jane thor is because you keep trying to bring it back to that, like with your whole "jane's war from the beginning" point... that you still haven't addressed, amongst so many of my points (some have been in favour of jane thor's run btw)... i dunno, if you are not going to even read what I'm writing, I'm done for the night and this discussion... time to go watch some cs go~

[GodThor]

For example one of the points you made was ‘Why Jane’, well Aaron has been asked that in interviews. His answer was that he had the idea for the story before he settled on who it would be. He and his editor went through various options and when Jane came up they considered her to be the best choice for what they were trying to achieve. So the answer is effectively because she allows Aaron to tell the story he wanted to tell. What’s wrong with that?

LoL c'mon man, we had this discussion for how long, a year??? two years???

we all pointed out Aaron's run flaws ever since he made Jane Thor (you can already see one of his flaws in this sentence).

it was interesting to see woman lifting the hammer but it went down fast in the first 2 chapters.

even now, Jane is still shoved to our face in WotR.

and yet you still ask what is wrong with it despite having all those debates with us for years...

[JKtheMac]

first off, the day of the announcement, jane was in the hospital, so Malekith announced and "started" the war without jane even being around. I mean, this is argument about semantics but I just don't see how you can say Jane started the story of the war when that is just factually not true.

Maybe you are missing my point. I never said she started the war, I said it was her war.

The same as saying in the story ‘Adolf Hitler: My Part in His Downfall’ is Spike Milligan’s War.

I am not saying that if you view it as some kind of objective string of events (which in this case it isn’t but in the Milligan case it was) that Jane is the main or the only player, I am saying it’s her story. The wider story that can be called ‘The War of the Realms’ is the story of Jane as told by Aaron. She is the key protagonist in that tale.

The war didn’t start when Malekith got free. That was an entirely different part of the story.

The war of the rebellion in Star Wars is Luke’s war.
The war of LotR is The Fellowship’s war but primarily Frodo and Aragorn‘s.

I am talking purely about the structure of the story, not including the prologue or appendices.

When Aaron is finished his entire run the whole thing will effectively be Thor Odinson’s story because that’s who it has all been about, but that’s just looking at it a different way. I am saying that in a story it is only natural that a war in which the protagonist answers the call, that the final chapter of that story will include that same protagonist ending it.

[JKtheMac]

mate... stop, I am not arguing about Jane becoming thor

Yep. You did or I wouldn’t have brought it up. You said -

as a side note though, used Jane? replace jane foster with any character taking up Thor's hammer... hell, keep the story with Thor and we'd end up in the same place... don't see how Jane is special in any way.

and yet you still ask what is wrong with it despite having all this debates with us for years...

Why would I change my mind on that? You clearly haven’t.


——

Put it this way. I said it wasn’t worth arguing with those who think Aaron is favouring Jane over Thor and I am not going to do that anymore. He isn’t. He is reaching the end of a long and complex story about Thor. For a while Jane was Thor. Still about Thor.

[Prof. Warren]

LoL c'mon man, we had this discussion for how long, a year??? two years???

we all pointed out Aaron's run flaws ever since he made Jane Thor (you can already see one of his flaws in this sentence).

it was interesting to see woman lifting the hammer but it went down fast in the first 2 chapters.

For you, maybe. Clearly that's very far from a universal opinion.

even now, Jane is still shoved to our face in WotR.

If anyone thought that Jane was going to sit out the climax of Aaron's run, they're nuts.

For those who've followed and enjoyed Aaron's run, they wouldn't want it any other way. She's a major player.

If anyone's still reading who hasn't enjoyed this run, by now they've forfeited all rights to complain.

Nothing is being shoved in anyone's face, if someone is making a conscious choice to continue to read a run that they don't like.

It's like if someone persisted in dining at a restaurant they hated and angrily complained every time about the unsatisfying meals that were being "shoved in their face."

It's not the restaurants fault if someone refuses to move on to another establishment they might prefer.

and yet you still ask what is wrong with it despite having all those debates with us for years...

JK is a very patient man, indeed.

[GodThor]

For you, maybe. Clearly that's very far from a universal opinion.

same reason how being the masterpiece isn't.

If anyone thought that Jane was going to sit out the climax of Aaron's run, they're an idiot.

thanks.

If anyone's still reading who hasn't enjoyed this run, they've forfeited all rights to complain.

oh trust me, I don't for months.

they peeked my interest on the last panel will put a smile on Thor fans face which is why I got back.

which turns out to be a massive disappointment to me.

[H-E-D]

I think WotR has suffered quite a bit from becoming an event. All the stuff from characters outside the normal Thor cast feel like little more than extended cameos, no substance, and honestly they feel like most of the book.

same reason how being the masterpiece isn't.

To be fair, there's no book with actual universal acclaim. You can find people who will **** on Watchmen without even looking too hard.

[JKtheMac]

It's not the restaurants fault if someone refuses to move on to another establishment they might prefer.

I guess some people don’t like fine dining

[JKtheMac]

To be fair, there's no book with actual universal acclaim. You can find people who will **** on Watchmen without even looking too hard.

Indeed I sometimes take flack for daring to say Watchmen isn’t the best thing ever. Morrison still takes flack for daring to critique it with some negative terms despite not actually saying it was bad.

[H-E-D]

I really do not understand why Aaron writing Thor into a hard time in his life means he "hates" the character. Do they think that David Michelinie and Bob Layton "hated" Iron Man when they put him through the Demon in a Bottle arc?

[JKtheMac]

I think WotR has suffered quite a bit from becoming an event. All the stuff from characters outside the normal Thor cast feel like little more than extended cameos, no substance, and honestly they feel like most of the book.

(Keeping the Watchmen tangent to one side)

I can see this point. Indeed those I know that gave up on the event did so for this reason.

Things like making Daredevil effectively a god is within the overall theme though. The general thrust of the Marvel characters is that they are picking up weapons or followers and therefore reflecting the concept of Thor. Whether that works I guess depends on enjoying it or not.

This particular issue a lot of the recounting of what is going on elsewhere felt a little overly expanded, but we have seen many events do this. It’s the one before last, so it has to get some of that out of the way. The demand of events is to have a huge impact with a huge cast and its not really possible in six books even with tie-ins.

[voidox]

Maybe you are missing my point. I never said she started the war, I said it was her war.

no, but you were originally saying she started the war, now you're saying it's only "her war"... which is still wrong as I've addressed both points already.

I am not saying that if you view it as some kind of objective string of events (which in this case it isn’t but in the Milligan case it was) that Jane is the main or the only player, I am saying it’s her story. The wider story that can be called ‘The War of the Realms’ is the story of Jane as told by Aaron. She is the key protagonist in that tale.

how? how do you keep saying this? why are you ignoring the involvement of other characters and other realms dealing with Malekith? how is this "her war"? how many times did she even interact with Malekith personally compared to thor? When has Malekith personally taken on Jane and made the war about her? When did Aaron ever say/write that this was "jane's war"??

You're taking the fact that this was her book and we saw things from her perspective as somehow meaning this was "her war", what we saw was her story in the war... the wider story of "war of the realms" is the story of Malekith's war with ALL THE REALMS, it was NEVER about jane or jane vs malekith.... jesus how are you still unable to see that -_-

she failed to stop the war, she only ever reacted with or along with other characters to malekith's plans. She was one of the protagonists of the war, though sure, during her run she could be seen as the key protagonist... but right now, Thor is the key protagonist of the war, jane is another protag just like Frejya is.

The war didn’t start when Malekith got free. That was an entirely different part of the story.

yes it did, are you being serious right now?

he planned all this **** in his prison or whenever, got out and STARTED THE WAR with the civil war, broke the treaty, fighting thor, dark council, massacring the light elves... how many times do I need to state this?

he then used the dead elf bodies to write "the war is coming/started" or w.e it was, so still, Jane was not even around for the "official" announcement to midgard

The war of the rebellion in Star Wars is Luke’s war.
The war of LotR is The Fellowship’s war but primarily Frodo and Aragorn‘s.

ah yes, pointing out other stories and generalising them all, wrongly btw, is somehow relevant.

You originally said "frodo's war", glad to see you realise the major part of LOTR was the fellowship's war, but again, not the only part. Frodo and Aragorn were indeed the major protagonists along with so many others.... LOTR involved the elves, wizards, ents, hobbits and on and on. You can't just ignore other characters/people and generalise LOTR as one grp/person's war :/

Star wars is not luke's war, don't ignore Leia, Han, obi wan, rebellion and on and on. Luke is indeed the major protagonist of the original trilogy, but it was never "luke's war".

I am talking purely about the structure of the story, not including the prologue or appendices.

okay, still doesn't help your case mate... since you want to ignore malekith's escape and start of the war, let's look at things during the war:

jane was NOT the only one dealing with the war, calling for action, make moves, fighting back, and on and on. You keep singling her out by ignoring other characters. Again, let's take her meeting with the council post-announcement, it was with Volstag who was also calling for action. How is jane special? This is "their war" for so many characters, don't understand how you can generalise everything since 2013 as "her war" :/

When Aaron is finished his entire run the whole thing will effectively be Thor Odinson’s story because that’s who it has all been about, but that’s just looking at it a different way.

oh man, who would have thought, the book/comic about THOR with Thor's name on the cover would have fans thinking it was about THOR... btw, pretty sure Thor's had more issues in aaron's run than jane, you saying "he would have continued with Jane" doesn't mean anything, he didn't continue with Jane so I don't see how you can keep saying aaron's run was about jane, there is no "effectively" about anything, aaron's run has always been about Thor, jane was treated as THOR~

I am saying that in a story it is only natural that a war in which the protagonist answers the call, that the final chapter of that story will include that same protagonist ending it.

LOL, "only natural"? once again you take your opinion as fact or the way things should be.

There have been oh so many stories where a protag "starts" or "answers the call" of the story and ends up dead or not there for the end, also natural ways to progress/end a story.

Yep. You did or I wouldn’t have brought it up. You said that there were lots of characters that would be better suited.

no, go back to my original post(s) and you'll see my issues with jane are in the context of the current event/latest issue. I NEVER said "lots of characters would be better suited to being thor", i said SIF would be the better character (amongst others) to being the ALL-MOTHER... read what I'm writing mate.

[H-E-D]

(Keeping the Watchmen tangent to one side)

I can see this point. Indeed those I know that gave up on the event did so for this reason.

Things like making Daredevil effectively a god is within the overall theme though. The general thrust of the Marvel characters is that they are picking up weapons or followers and therefore reflecting the concept of Thor. Whether that works I guess depends on enjoying it or not.

This particular issue a lot of the recounting of what is going on elsewhere felt a little overly expanded, but we have seen many events do this. It’s the one before last, so it has to get some of that out of the way. The demand of events is to have a huge impact with a huge cast and its not really possible in six books even with tie-ins.

Oh, now that you say it, I think the Daredevil-Heimdall stuff is one of the added cast members that does feel genuinely interesting beyond a cool fight scene. And, yeah, as far as events go, this one isn't unique in it's problems. It isn't bad. I just can't help but think it would have been better as just a climatic arc in Thor.