War Of The Realms Event!

[JKtheMac]

Why should the question be as you describe, I'm curious

Iean, why does his historical power need to be justifief more than why his current power is so low

I'm just curious as to why either question is more important than the other, they are both good questions

I mean in the context of why exactly the gods have any power at all in the MU. I mean we know they are made of ‘god stuff’ and fashioned by human stories, so that gives them a certain power of our imagination, but why for example does Odin think he is actually important? He’s an almost totally forgotten deity that even in the real world is more mystery than fact.

Until Aaron came along there was no question that the answer to the question ‘did he create the Earth’ was ‘no absolutely not. Not in the MU’. He and the other gods did in Norse myth but even then not him alone. Now however all bets may be off. He may well have done. So that’s why I frame the question that way, because it’s an interesting question.

Of course this theory must be wrong because obviously Aaron hates Odin. So he will reduce him to the pompous self-important guy he always was and that will be it.

I'm not sure if he's still doing it, but I think he clearly was doing just that, or to rephrase
He clearly is doing that
Or at least he was

Well you know I don’t agree and you probably remember why, so ‘not worth arguing’.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I mean in the context of why exactly the gods have any power at all in the MU. I mean we know they are made of ‘god stuff’ and fashioned by human stories, so that gives them a certain power of our imagination, but why for example does Odin think he is actually important? .

Man, save the planet from the Celestial's negative yelp review, defeat Surter time and time again and defeat an evil pantheon of Gods just on principle, and you think you're hot stuff? Nope!

[JKtheMac]

and this is exactly how arguments work mate, you made a point and I countered with my own... wtf does terms have to do with this? We disagree but you don't seem ready to want to debate anything, you just want to make sure everyone knows that you are right, rest of us have the wrong perspective and your opinions = facts :/

Really? I seem to remember expressing that I didn’t want to have an argument. Especially not in this thread and most especially not on your terms. You just seem to want to prove me wrong through argument. I don’t have anything to prove here. I stated my opinion and you are the one that can’t accept it because somehow you think I am judging you. I am not. Thinking you are wrong is not a judgment. Sorry that’s the end of the argument.

[kilderkin]

I mean in the context of why exactly the gods have any power at all in the MU. I mean we know they are made of ‘god stuff’ and fashioned by human stories, so that gives them a certain power of our imagination, but why for example does Odin think he is actually important? He’s an almost totally forgotten deity that even in the real world is more mystery than fact.

Until Aaron came along there was no question that the answer to the question ‘did he create the Earth’ was ‘no absolutely not. Not in the MU’. He and the other gods did in Norse myth but even then not him alone. Now however all bets may be off. He may well have done. So that’s why I frame the question that way, because it’s an interesting question.

Of course this theory must be wrong because obviously Aaron hates Odin. So he will reduce him to the pompous self-important guy he always was and that will be it.



Well you know I don’t agree and you probably remember why, so ‘not worth arguing’.

The gods of earth derive their power from the demiurge life force of the planet, according to marvel themselves, the head of the pantheons of current generations seem to have power over their pantheon life force, eg when Odin assumpts it for the destroyer armour, or Zeus elevates the Olympians in the herc mini, so I do think the heads are demonstrated to be inheritantly more powerful and potent

Odin has certainly been a big deal across most of the mythological aspects of the nine realms, earth bring an accepted exception, or at least he generally was until recently, and he has always been imported since replaced not in Asgard

So I think there is precident that the heads of pantheons are different and inheritantly more powerful

Another thing that makes me think this is the heads being able to raise members of their race from the dead, as Odin did with Thor and Brunhilda, but maybe not with other races, like Thor could not with humans during the reigning arc, though that might have been an experience thing

As for out opposite views, sure our opinions differ, but in both cases they are just opinions, not fact

[JKtheMac]

The gods of earth derive their power from the demiurge life force of the planet, according to marvel themselves, the head of the pantheons of current generations seem to have power over their pantheon life force, eg when Odin assumpts it for the destroyer armour, or Zeus elevates the Olympians in the herc mini, so I do think the heads are demonstrated to be inheritantly more powerful and potent

yes absolutely but where exactly does that come from? How is it sustained? Do humans not have some part of this? Most myth structures include some kind of contract between humans and gods. These gods do very little and are not even worshiped.

Odin has certainly been a big deal across most of the mythological aspects of the nine realms, earth bring an accepted exception, or at least he generally was until recently, and he has always been imported since replaced not in Asgard

Yes but it never really made much sense to me. I was hoping one day someone would realign things. Challenge the Serpent Crown material. Shake things up. Aaron’s the guy. Go back and look. I was saying this back at the beginning. I was looking to Aaron to explore this stuff and he has explored some of it. Because he will still be writing Avengers he will continue.

[Biclopcicle]

The gods of earth derive their power from the demiurge life force of the planet, according to marvel themselves, the head of the pantheons of current generations seem to have power over their pantheon life force, eg when Odin assumpts it for the destroyer armour, or Zeus elevates the Olympians in the herc mini, so I do think the heads are demonstrated to be inheritantly more powerful and potent

Odin has certainly been a big deal across most of the mythological aspects of the nine realms, earth bring an accepted exception, or at least he generally was until recently, and he has always been imported since replaced not in Asgard

So I think there is precident that the heads of pantheons are different and inheritantly more powerful

Another thing that makes me think this is the heads being able to raise members of their race from the dead, as Odin did with Thor and Brunhilda, but maybe not with other races, like Thor could not with humans during the reigning arc, though that might have been an experience thing

As for out opposite views, sure our opinions differ, but in both cases they are just opinions, not fact

If Aaron's 1million BC Avengers stuff is Canon (along with recent quotes such as light elves have been around since before humans were upright) then it seems that the Norse gods and the other Realms of the World Tree existed independently of the demiurge. It seems that perhaps all other pantheons are derived from the demiurge ....is Thor at least partially from the demiurge as well, since his mother is Gaia? And yet it says that Vanaheim is Thor's birthplace... definitely some contradictions there...maybe Earth's history was rewritten a bit after the re-organization of the multiverse?

I never really liked that the pantheons were just human beliefs that molded and shaped the energies of the Earth's biosphere like Gruenwald described in Thor Annual #10/ Seprent Crown Saga....but. I do like how it was used in No Road Home

[JKtheMac]

If Aaron's 1million BC Avengers stuff is Canon (along with recent quotes such as light elves have been around since before humans were upright) then it seems that the Norse gods and the other Realms of the World Tree existed independently of the demiurge. It seems that perhaps all other pantheons are derived from the demiurge ....is Thor at least partially from the demiurge as well, since his mother is Gaia? And yet it says that Vanaheim is Thor's birthplace... definitely some contradictions there...maybe Earth's history was rewritten a bit after the re-organization of the multiverse?

I never really liked that the pantheons were just human beliefs that molded and shaped the energies of the Earth's biosphere like Gruenwald described in Thor Annual #10/ Seprent Crown Saga....but. I do like how it was used in No Road Home

I suspect that the 1 Million BC Avengers story will eventually include an Odin flashback that will show us the Earth being destroyed on some level and Odin will recreate it. It will effectively tell us that the Serpent Crown stuff is not quite as simple as we were told. I mean the story is already telling us that anyway when it comes to 1 Million BC.

[Wall-Crawler]

Man, Russell Dauterman is a god himself though.
6959096-5492014557-21.jp.jpg

[Frontier]

Man, Russell Dauterman is a god himself though.
6959096-5492014557-21.jp.jpg

Silver arm definitely looks better then gold.

(Please give Thor his arm back though...).

[GodThor]

If Aaron's 1million BC Avengers stuff is Canon (along with recent quotes such as light elves have been around since before humans were upright) then it seems that the Norse gods and the other Realms of the World Tree existed independently of the demiurge. It seems that perhaps all other pantheons are derived from the demiurge ....is Thor at least partially from the demiurge as well, since his mother is Gaia? And yet it says that Vanaheim is Thor's birthplace... definitely some contradictions there...maybe Earth's history was rewritten a bit after the re-organization of the multiverse?

Where was it stated that Thor's birthplace is in Vanaheim???

I never really liked that the pantheons were just human beliefs that molded and shaped the energies of the Earth's biosphere like Gruenwald described in Thor Annual #10/ Seprent Crown Saga....but. I do like how it was used in No Road Home

Odin predating humans goes back to Lee and Kirby days.

Humans didn't create Gods.

[Biclopcicle]

Where was it stated that Thor's birthplace is in Vanaheim???


Odin predating humans goes back to Lee and Kirby days.

Humans didn't create Gods.

I believe that yes, Kirby/Lee intended the Norse gods to basically be an advanced race of beings similar to the Fourth World New Gods. But Mark Gruenwald changed the narrative in the books I mentioned

[MaximoffTrash]

I do like Gruenwald giving Earth Gods an unified origin. Honestly if not for that all the Earth Pantheon would contradict the hell out of each other for who is the creator of stuff and humans.

[kilderkin]

If Aaron's 1million BC Avengers stuff is Canon (along with recent quotes such as light elves have been around since before humans were upright) then it seems that the Norse gods and the other Realms of the World Tree existed independently of the demiurge. It seems that perhaps all other pantheons are derived from the demiurge ....is Thor at least partially from the demiurge as well, since his mother is Gaia? And yet it says that Vanaheim is Thor's birthplace... definitely some contradictions there...maybe Earth's history was rewritten a bit after the re-organization of the multiverse?

I never really liked that the pantheons were just human beliefs that molded and shaped the energies of the Earth's biosphere like Gruenwald described in Thor Annual #10/ Seprent Crown Saga....but. I do like how it was used in No Road Home

Yeah, full of contradiction true

I'm not with the humans shaped the gods entirely but clearly there is an influence, marvels description of the pantheons suggests they are shaped by the cultures that worshipped them, but that's clearly out of date as an entry now

I do find it curious, since the gods are supposed to be older than humanity but shaped by them?

[kilderkin]

Silver arm definitely looks better then gold.

(Please give Thor his arm back though...).

Yeah, much preferred

[JKtheMac]

I do like Gruenwald giving Earth Gods an unified origin. Honestly if not for that all the Earth Pantheon would contradict the hell out of each other for who is the reator of stuff and humans.

Don’t get me wrong. It was a perfectly serviceable origin. But it is not an examined origin. For a while it was almost forgotten and we often had whole runs where the Asgardians were just depicted as a space faring super race and ignored the fact they were gods.

One of the things I appreciate about Thor: God of Thunder was the subtle way Aaron alluded to the Serpent Crown material. So many in the past just made up their own rules about the gods without going back to that. His run started as an apparent rewrite of the Demogorge The God Eater story “A time to Die” from Annual 10. This signaled that he was going to start digging into the assumptions about gods, and how they work. He has done so ever since. Now, in the 1 Billion BC Avengers he is tackling that material head on. Effectively retconning some of that. Taking the stance that the brief history we got was a simplified story and that some important things were left unsaid. Important things like what a god actually is.

It is entirely possible that hanging on the World Tree is going to give Thor some context about this too. Let’s see.

It is also to Aaron’s credit that he is able to address some of these things while telling an action adventure story that on the surface is not burdened by this material. He is using the exploration as story generating inspiration.