War Of The Realms Event!

[Immortal Hulk]

I concur. It was a satisfying ending. I found myself exhausted (in a good way) after reading it, like I really got my money's worth. Epic battles, epic character development, just everything felt really, really epic. Further more, it felt like Thor REALLY earned his new status quo. Basically the issue used old elements, tied up certain elements, and set the stage for new elements.

Overall, just a great issue!

With all my critics to the event (and Aaron's Thor, in general), I have to agree with this!

[Minerboh]

Didn't Thor had this title (or something similar) at the beginning of Straczinski's run until Odin's return before the Fear Itself event?
He was even using the Odinforce.

[JKtheMac]

Didn't Thor had this title (or something similar) at the beginning of Straczinski's run until Odin's return before the Fear Itself event?
He was even using the Odinforce .

Kind of yes. Similar process, different circumstances and different results. Important distinction being he wasn’t handed it by Odin. Some like to assert that it wasn’t the Odinforce in that story. JMS clearly thought it was in interviews at the time. No evidence of the Odinforce here though. There is even a question of whether Odin was capable of using it since he came back in Original Sin, because we haven’t seen him do any Odinforce level stuff since then.

[JKtheMac]

I’m not sure what thor’s New status will mean for his role in the avengers, or why jane couldn’t go back to her Thor persona.

We will have to see. However, if he rejects it then nothing changes. Jane needs a Mjolnir to be Thor, she hasn’t got one, she has an odd shapeshifting equivalent thing that will better suit her new role. I imagine exactly how it works will be explored in time.

[XPac]

We will have to see. However, if he rejects it then nothing changes. Jane needs a Mjolnir to be Thor, she hasn’t got one, she has an odd shapeshifting equivalent thing that will better suit her new role. I imagine exactly how it works will be explored in time.

I'm sure they will run with the whole Thor being All Father for awhile. But this sort of thing never lasts. I'm sure Odin will be back on that throne at some point. Doesn't seem like Thor is leaving the Avengers anytime soon, so outside of the Thor book we probably won't even know the difference.

[kilderkin]

Didn't Thor had this title (or something similar) at the beginning of Straczinski's run until Odin's return before the Fear Itself event?
He was even using the Odinforce .

And surpassed it in Thor disassembled, in that regard it's not a new result, the journey there was different but there you go, not really new in that sense.

[kilderkin]

Kind of yes. Similar process, different circumstances and different results. Important distinction being he wasn’t handed it by Odin. Some like to assert that it wasn’t the Odinforce in that story. JMS clearly thought it was in interviews at the time. No evidence of the Odinforce here though. There is even a question of whether Odin was capable of using it since he came back in Original Sin, because we haven’t seen him do any Odinforce level stuff since then.

Regards the odinforce, that would actually make some sense, he's a shadow of his former self, if he didn't return with it, that at least would help make some sense of that. Did he have it when he fought Galactus for the world tree egg, not sure when that was set.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Well considering Fear Itself was pretty good...

In what world?

Fear Itself was garbage.

[JKtheMac]

In what world?

Fear Itself was garbage.

Some of us consider it to be under appreciated. It wasn’t executed in the most compelling way because Fraction was very clearly not the right person for the job, but at its core it was a fun romp that delivered on some of the promises JMS set up, while also commenting upon US politics in a challenging but under the radar manner. Personally I think it ditched JMS’s natural end-point for synergy reasons, and it does suffer from that, but that’s conjecture. You have the right to not like it. In this case I can even see why you might insult it, although I don’t think that is a particularly considered or meaningful way to criticise a work.

[JKtheMac]

Regards the odinforce, that would actually make some sense, he's a shadow of his former self, if he didn't return with it, that at least would help make some sense of that. Did he have it when he fought Galactus for the world tree egg, not sure when that was set.

Well my take on this will inevitably be controversial because personally I dislike Oeming’s Ragnarok story and think Rune King Thor was a huge misstep. When JMS picks up the pieces he has to basically wipe the slate clean. Oeming was clearly tasked with getting rid of Asgard. I mean what were Marvel thinking? The early 2000s are not a time in comics, much like the late 90s, that I try not to think too much about. Everything was different then. Marvel were desperate. Desperation leads to bad stories. I didn’t hang around to read them. It was not for me.

The whole question of Odinforce was pushed to one side in what I consider to be the modern era. Fraction tells us Odin can headbutt Galactus. Great. What does that tell us about the Odinforce? Not much. Especially when Galactus can shrug it off. It was much more important in that story that the “Nine paces” storyline was set up, this was referring back and expanding upon the now infamous Roy Thomas idea that the central key to Thor, the reason we even have his stories in the comics, was that he was destined to play a part in Ragnarok. Just in this case it was a different Ragnaork.

From this moment onwards Odin becomes an actual character. Not the problematic ally/antagonist with vague, hand waved ultimate power. That’s the Odin I want. An actual antagonist in that he creates problems for our hero. None of that ‘Oh but I was just being wise and mysterious but I decided not to explain things for reasons’ stuff that he had been saddled with since the Lee/Kirby retcon (which even Kirby recognised as a problem).

When one gets to start afresh one may as well redefine things. Actually start a new story. Clearly the old one was failing in some way.

See, controversial. JMS changed everything, Fraction doubled down. Everything since has built on that and the Thomas thread. Not Lee, not Kirby, not Simonson (who unwisely started this whole Odinforce thing in the first place). The decision was made over a space of time between JMS and Fraction. Nothing has been the same since. Vive la difference!

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Some of us consider it to be under appreciated. It wasn’t executed in the most compelling way because Fraction was very clearly not the right person for the job, but at its core it was a fun romp that delivered on some of the promises JMS set up, while also commenting upon US politics in a challenging but under the radar manner. Personally I think it ditched JMS’s natural end-point for synergy reasons, and it does suffer from that, but that’s conjecture. You have the right to not like it. In this case I can even see why you might insult it, although I don’t think that is a particularly considered or meaningful way to criticise a work.

Except, as you said, it really wasn’t executed well. I just remember reading the last issue and thinking “what the hell is happening?? This sucks.” The ending was so jumbled and Marvel itself seemed eager to forget the whole event happened since Thor was revived basically as soon as he died and all the consequences of the event were forgotten relatively quickly.

But back to the event at hand. I thought this was a strong ending to an event that has been relatively well-constructed, even if it did seem to lag in parts. Malekith in particular was probably my favorite part and I think could one day rival Loki as one of the greatest Thor villains. However, I still don’t know how to feel about Aaron’s revisionist history regarding certain character dynamics, namely the idea that Odin has always just been a rampaging douche and his and Thor’s relationship has been strained from the get-go.

[whiterabbit]

Kind of yes. Similar process, different circumstances and different results. Important distinction being he wasn’t handed it by Odin. Some like to assert that it wasn’t the Odinforce in that story. JMS clearly thought it was in interviews at the time. No evidence of the Odinforce here though. There is even a question of whether Odin was capable of using it since he came back in Original Sin, because we haven’t seen him do any Odinforce level stuff since then.

Didn't Odin fight Galactus during the Matt Fraction run?

[GodThor]

Regards the odinforce, that would actually make some sense, he's a shadow of his former self, if he didn't return with it, that at least would help make some sense of that. Did he have it when he fought Galactus for the world tree egg, not sure when that was set.

Galactus seed started a little bit before Fear Itself iirc.

ahh when Odin faced down Galactus... after all those years of Odin is on or close to Galactus in power statements it has finally come to confirm it more or less.

I think Galactus was also fed when he face Odin and wanted to sate his hunger with the seed.

at least Fraction knew how to make Odin powerful.

now, Odin is an absolute garbage.

[JKtheMac]

Didn't Odin fight Galactus during the Matt Fraction run?

Yes he did. I was briefly confused. I corrected this in my other comments. The point still stands, that JMS read Oeming and fully acknowledged that things had got to the point that Thor was wielding the Odinforce and discussed this in interviews. I don't remember him specifically calling it out as bad but I would. Also that Fraction never really deals directly with the Odinforce in a meaningful way and it has been de-emphasized as a concept that is a little too vague for its own good.

When Simonson used it he wasn't really making it a Deus ex Machina, it was a kind of legacy. I suppose in a way Oeming did that too but to me it felt far too powerful in Oeming's story and has caused arguments ever since. People still bring up Rune Thor, the idea was a dead end (literally it ended Asgard and brought Thor's book to an end) but the idea of power appeals to some fans. The idea of the Odinforce and its significance has magnified even as Marvel have sought to de-emphasise it from my perspective.

[JKtheMac]

Except, as you said, it really wasn’t executed well. I just remember reading the last issue and thinking “what the hell is happening?? This sucks.” The ending was so jumbled and Marvel itself seemed eager to forget the whole event happened since Thor was revived basically as soon as he died and all the consequences of the event were forgotten relatively quickly.

Unfortunately Marvel seem keen to forget every event as soon as it has happened. Which is a pain when many fans navigate the history of the MU by the events, while Marvel don't seem to play by those rules except through lip service.

But back to the event at hand. I thought this was a strong ending to an event that has been relatively well-constructed, even if it did seem to lag in parts. Malekith in particular was probably my favorite part and I think could one day rival Loki as one of the greatest Thor villains.

To be brutally honest I have never really appreciated Malekith and Aaron didn't really change that. He is fine as a villain / antagonist, but he feels a little underdeveloped. Aaron did some work to try and develop him and it allowed him to bring in certain themes, but when some critics have attacked the Malekith arc I find it hard to disagree because he is a little bland. On the other hand I don't really think this hurts the story being told because the story wasn't really about the villain.

It feels like this culture has got a bit obsessed with villains being deep and meaningful, and somehow identifiable. I blame the MCU fans endlessly going on about it. I might even have joined in. Malekith has never really been that, and maybe there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe sometimes the story isn't about the bad guy. Sometimes he is just there to push the story along. He is mostly just a moustache twirling villain, but he is a fun example that can be sacrificed at the end. My bet is he will come back as a god eventually.

However, I still don’t know how to feel about Aaron’s revisionist history regarding certain character dynamics, namely the idea that Odin has always just been a rampaging douche and his and Thor’s relationship has been strained from the get-go.

Well my take is that this isn't actually what Aaron was trying to say anyway. Well strained yes, douche no. He was simply equating their relationship to the kind of dysfunctional one many guys have with their fathers. If one had a great and unchallenging relationship with ones father than maybe one sees it differently. If one had an abusive relationship maybe it comes across as more challenging. I think Aaron was aiming between these two extremes. The awkward and in my experience very common, challenging and dysfunctional relationship.

He also chose to use him as an example of toxic masculinity. The hat seems to fit from where I am standing. There are multiple times in the past when he has acted belligerently, dangerously, as a frustrating father, as an annoying husband, frankly as an antagonist. Nothing new there.