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  1. #1186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with that. Beta Ray Bill was still mortal, a superstrong alien mortal, but still mortal and an outsider to Asgard. So, why would Odin seemingly accept Bill without question and even in some respect bend over backwards to accommodate him but then instantly shun Jane?

    In fact, the idea that Odin is just vehemently opposed to a mortal lifting Mjolnir is not just refuted by the first appearance of Beta Ray Bill, but also by Lee and Kirby themselves. For example, in Thor #159, which lays out their origin for Thor, Odin sends Thor to Midgard in the guise of Donald Blake because he believes that living among the mortals and learning to care for them will teach Thor an important lesson: humility. That doesn't seem to be the actions of someone who looks down on mortals or thinks of them as lesser.

    I think, from the context of the story, its obvious what Aaron was going for with Odin. He was meant to be the stand-in for toxic masculinity and those with sexist attitudes that would be suspicious of a woman assuming any mantle that once belonged to a man. And, while that's actually a key part of the story Aaron was telling and it is in fact appropriate to refute those sexist notions and ideas, I just don't believe it lines up with Odin's classic characterization. And, yes, that includes the Simonson run, but not just the Simonson run. It probably would have been better suited for another character.
    I feel you are correct about Odin

    I always and still feel Aaron did Odin a great disservice in his portrayal though it had started before that

    Odin has been a git at times, bit it was mostly uniformly, Aaron made it very specific and for what I felt were poor story reasons mostly out of character for Odin

    In fact imo his treatment of Odin is the worst part of this work

    Conversely his treatment of Jane for me was his best part

    It is what it is, it won't matter soon enough

  2. #1187
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    I feel you are correct about Odin

    I always and still feel Aaron did Odin a great disservice in his portrayal though it had started before that

    Odin has been a git at times, bit it was mostly uniformly, Aaron made it very specific and for what I felt were poor story reasons mostly out of character for Odin

    In fact imo his treatment of Odin is the worst part of this work

    Conversely his treatment of Jane for me was his best part

    It is what it is, it won't matter soon enough
    Yes indeed. Aaron just up ignored whole swathes of Odin's history for the sake of... well, just for the sake of it, it seems in some cases.

    For example...

    Last edited by brettc1; 07-10-2019 at 05:20 AM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  3. #1188
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Yes indeed. Aaron just up ignored whole swathes of Odin's history for the sake of... well, just for the sake of it, it seems in some cases.

    For example...

    Well put

    I'm sure some might find panels that support Aaron's use of Odin but it is that he has specifically focussed on the negative at the ignorance of these aspects that irks me

    Odins speech when Thor bested thanos is another example of odins respect for Thor so too is when he risked his Life to resurrect Thor and Brunhilda during the Rhine gold story
    Last edited by kilderkin; 07-10-2019 at 07:25 AM.

  4. #1189
    Incredible Member baltiroo's Avatar
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    So Aaron's grand epic has concluded. War of the Realms is over and what are we left with? New series for Loki and Valkyrie (Jane Foster) and a lot of lingering threats. I did a review about the event crossover where I share my thoughts on the success and failure of WotR.

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  5. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    Well put

    I'm sure some might find panels that support Aaron's use of Odin but it is that he has specifically focussed on the negative at the ignorance of these aspects that irks me

    Odins speech when Thor bested thanos is another example of odins respect for Thor so too is when he risked his Life to resurrect Thor and Brunhilda during the Rhine gold story
    Yes.

    There have been negative portrayals of Odin in the past. I recall the time in the late 80s when he stripped Thor of his powers and left him to die on Midgard.

    But these were the exceptions, not the rule. Odin’s arguments with Thor always stemmed from him wanting his son back in Asgard, not from Odin being a blustering misogynistic jerk.

    Is there anyone who thinks Akron’s version would bother turning up to defend Reed Richards for saving Galactus? If the Celestials turned up to burn the world he’d probably be too drunk to notice.
    Last edited by brettc1; 07-10-2019 at 05:47 PM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  6. #1191
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We will have to see. However, if he rejects it then nothing changes. Jane needs a Mjolnir to be Thor, she hasn’t got one, she has an odd shapeshifting equivalent thing that will better suit her new role. I imagine exactly how it works will be explored in time.
    I recently read JMS and part of Fraction's run to shed some light and get some context on how Aaron's run has turned out--

    As I understand it, Thor was given the Odinforce by Odin prior to his death leading up to Ragnarok. Thor and the rest of the Asgardians then "died" in Ragnarok but ended the cycle of Ragnaroks...Thor then finds himself in the "void" with Donald Blake. He manages to revive himself, and then using the Odinforce he restores Asgard outside of Roxton OK. Loki is restored in Sif's form (but ultimately reverts to his old self once Thor finds Sif's soul) and Odin is left in the void to fight Sutur on a daily basis. Thor battles alongside him (during his Odinsleep) but it is ultimately agreed upon to leave Odin there....all of this was done with the Odinforce.

    At some point (through time shenanigans) Loki revives Bor in the modern era under an enchantment of distorted perception and battles Thor, breaking Mjolnir in the process. In order to repair Mjolnir, Dr. Strange withdraws the Odinforce from Thor....

    Skip to Fraction's run after Seige. Somehow, even with the Odinforce out of his control, he is able to revive Loki, this time as a boy. He also revives Odin to assist in facing the World Eaters. I don't think anyone was ever revived after this, and no mention of the Odinforce occurs again.

    I'm not sure what Aaron thinks about all this, but we do know Old King Thor has the Odinforce/Thorforce. It doesn't se that there is any Odinforce in the new Mjolnir. Perhaps he will use a bit of the Ultimate Universe concept of the Asgardians drawing their power from Yggdrasil, and Thor will derive power from the new world tree that grew in the sun. Having said that, I think it's a bit of a narrative challenge to have such an overpowered character as your primary protagonist. The Odinforce power level has had quite a bit of fluctuaiton over the years, however

  7. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    I recently read JMS and part of Fraction's run to shed some light and get some context on how Aaron's run has turned out--

    As I understand it, Thor was given the Odinforce by Odin prior to his death leading up to Ragnarok. Thor and the rest of the Asgardians then "died" in Ragnarok but ended the cycle of Ragnaroks...Thor then finds himself in the "void" with Donald Blake. He manages to revive himself, and then using the Odinforce he restores Asgard outside of Roxton OK. Loki is restored in Sif's form (but ultimately reverts to his old self once Thor finds Sif's soul) and Odin is left in the void to fight Sutur on a daily basis. Thor battles alongside him (during his Odinsleep) but it is ultimately agreed upon to leave Odin there....all of this was done with the Odinforce.

    At some point (through time shenanigans) Loki revives Bor in the modern era under an enchantment of distorted perception and battles Thor, breaking Mjolnir in the process. In order to repair Mjolnir, Dr. Strange withdraws the Odinforce from Thor....

    Skip to Fraction's run after Seige. Somehow, even with the Odinforce out of his control, he is able to revive Loki, this time as a boy. He also revives Odin to assist in facing the World Eaters. I don't think anyone was ever revived after this, and no mention of the Odinforce occurs again.

    I'm not sure what Aaron thinks about all this, but we do know Old King Thor has the Odinforce/Thorforce. It doesn't se that there is any Odinforce in the new Mjolnir. Perhaps he will use a bit of the Ultimate Universe concept of the Asgardians drawing their power from Yggdrasil, and Thor will derive power from the new world tree that grew in the sun. Having said that, I think it's a bit of a narrative challenge to have such an overpowered character as your primary protagonist. The Odinforce power level has had quite a bit of fluctuaiton over the years, however
    A great summary

    My only question is regarding Dr strange fixing mjolnir

    As I understand it he used Thor's life force, why Thor was at threat of it broke

    Not sure if that is the effective same as the odinforce but I think it was not

    My understanding is not clear I admit

  8. #1193
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Just finished reading the completed story.

    This was pretty good. Felt like it could have gone for one more issue - of the crossover events I enjoyed Captain Marvel and the Spider-Man stories the most.

    Nice to see Thor FINALLY got Mjolnir back, and the inscription finally being gender neutral. The final reforging was nicely done, with Thor sacrificing his hold on the hammer in order to regain it. Still not sold on the whole premise of him losing in the first place but he has it back now so.. whatever. LOL.

    Only one thing kind of left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and sadly it was right at the end. Aaron continues to write a really awful version of Odin.
    It took me a long time to get over this until I went back and read the point where he was resurrected by Thor in Fraction's run. Odin has been super gruff the whole time since.

    It is kind of interesting to think about. Thor has been around for 12 (real time) years since coming back after Ragnarok, but he's been unworthy for nearly half that time. Aaron re-hashed some old themes in his run (worthiness, lost her, broken hammer, etc) but I think he did a better job with Thor than he did with Dr. Strange (where he basically regurgitated the Urthona story arc). Thor as the head Asgardians is by no means new, but to have Thor be there, coexisting with Odin and "letting the people decide" is an interesting take. Now that #16 is the last issue and King Thor is Aaron's last story, it will be left to another writer to see Thor through this next stage. If Al Ewing is going to write Valkyrie, why not let him give a go at Thor? It would be fascinating to me to see his take, as he's one of the few authors who really makes a great effort at accounting for past history of the character.

  9. #1194
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    A great summary

    My only question is regarding Dr strange fixing mjolnir

    As I understand it he used Thor's life force, why Thor was at threat of it broke

    Not sure if that is the effective same as the odinforce but I think it was not

    My understanding is not clear I admit
    I do remember that. But considering Mjolnir recently exploded and Thor didn’t die, I’m thinking it’s just one more thing Aaron decided to ignore to tell his story.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  10. #1195
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    A great summary

    My only question is regarding Dr strange fixing mjolnir

    As I understand it he used Thor's life force, why Thor was at threat of it broke

    Not sure if that is the effective same as the odinforce but I think it was not

    My understanding is not clear I admit
    See attached from Thor #602Screenshot_20190711-082347_Comics.jpg

  11. #1196
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Screenshot_20190711-082639_Comics.jpg

    Screenshot_20190711-082743_Comics.jpg

    I think the confusion is that Strange's enchantment tied both the Odinforce and Thor's own lifeforce to Mjolnir. Since Mjolnir was pretty much destroyed in the sun, you could argue Aaron ignored this...or you could No-Prize it and say Strange didn't understand Mjolnir exactly, and that it can never truly be destroyed

  12. #1197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    Screenshot_20190711-082639_Comics.jpg

    Screenshot_20190711-082743_Comics.jpg

    I think the confusion is that Strange's enchantment tied both the Odinforce and Thor's own lifeforce to Mjolnir. Since Mjolnir was pretty much destroyed in the sun, you could argue Aaron ignored this...or you could No-Prize it and say Strange didn't understand Mjolnir exactly, and that it can never truly be destroyed
    Many thanks for the clarification

  13. #1198
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    I recently read JMS and part of Fraction's run to shed some light and get some context on how Aaron's run has turned out--

    As I understand it, Thor was given the Odinforce by Odin prior to his death leading up to Ragnarok. Thor and the rest of the Asgardians then "died" in Ragnarok but ended the cycle of Ragnaroks...Thor then finds himself in the "void" with Donald Blake. He manages to revive himself, and then using the Odinforce he restores Asgard outside of Roxton OK. Loki is restored in Sif's form (but ultimately reverts to his old self once Thor finds Sif's soul) and Odin is left in the void to fight Sutur on a daily basis. Thor battles alongside him (during his Odinsleep) but it is ultimately agreed upon to leave Odin there....all of this was done with the Odinforce.

    At some point (through time shenanigans) Loki revives Bor in the modern era under an enchantment of distorted perception and battles Thor, breaking Mjolnir in the process. In order to repair Mjolnir, Dr. Strange withdraws the Odinforce from Thor....

    Skip to Fraction's run after Seige. Somehow, even with the Odinforce out of his control, he is able to revive Loki, this time as a boy. He also revives Odin to assist in facing the World Eaters. I don't think anyone was ever revived after this, and no mention of the Odinforce occurs again.

    I'm not sure what Aaron thinks about all this, but we do know Old King Thor has the Odinforce/Thorforce. It doesn't se that there is any Odinforce in the new Mjolnir. Perhaps he will use a bit of the Ultimate Universe concept of the Asgardians drawing their power from Yggdrasil, and Thor will derive power from the new world tree that grew in the sun. Having said that, I think it's a bit of a narrative challenge to have such an overpowered character as your primary protagonist. The Odinforce power level has had quite a bit of fluctuaiton over the years, however
    hm I don't think he lost the Odinforce completely when Strange bound it with his hammer.

    OF most likely went back to Odin when he got revived and it took time to build up to almost 100%.

    Odinforce is also apparently retconed.

    in Loki: Agent of Asgard, Odinforce charges up on its own instead of Odinforce.

    in Original Sin, it was mentioned that as well.

  14. #1199
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    hm I don't think he lost the Odinforce completely when Strange bound it with his hammer.

    OF most likely went back to Odin when he got revived and it took time to build up to almost 100%.

    Odinforce is also apparently retconed.

    in Loki: Agent of Asgard, Odinforce charges up on its own instead of Odinforce.

    in Original Sin, it was mentioned that as well.
    I mean, Strange says Thor would revert back to his previous state before Odin gave him the power. There is no indication it ever went back to Odin. It's recharged via the Odinsleep

    I don't understand your statement about Agent of Asgard

    Where in Original Sin is that? I read the whole series and I don't recall. Was that in the Tenth Realm mini?

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