New Roles For Old Souls (unused narrative archetypes and who could fill them)

[Thor-Ul]

This is fun.

I still remember the Operative as the super-spy. Remember him? Member of the Others? He was a spy so good nobody had ear about him. LOL.

Plas is an excellent choice for the undercover hero.

Hawk and Dove could use the romance angle.

Blue Bettle (Ted) seems the kind of hero to be a first responder. And Booster is the celebrity one.

There are still other archetypes absents. I was to say than the redeemed archetype is one of the absents, but Catwoman fill that role right now.

The concept absent is the professional: the one who is good in his work but it is not particulary altruistic. The kind of person who consider being a hero his job, but it is not tormented or a unselfish crusader, just a regular joe doing his work. The name of Mahattan Guardian seems the right man for the job.

[DrNewGod]

Why don't you think it doesnt work if its a disguise?

I meant I don't think it would work for Booster unless you rebooted him somehow. He's been moved beyond the shallow, greedy jock who nonetheless wants to wants to be adored for reasons that make him do the right thing that he was created to be.

[LordUltimus]

What about the "science explorer" hero? I know we have the Challengers of the Unknown, but they rarely work out in the long run, and the Terrifics is ending soon.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Atom could be a good Science Explorer.

Martian Manhunter might be a good drifter hero.

A redeemed villain is hard- maybe someone in WW's rogues?

[Ascended]

A classic archetype is the loner/drifter one. It's popular in westerns, but Conan and many other characters also fit this—back when I read comics in the 80's Hulk followed this model.

Excellent suggestion! I agree with kenway's idea of using J'onn for this. If he ever hopes to be more than just the extra guy on the League, he needs to find a niche. I mean, J'onn could perhaps work as a great catch-all "pulp" archetype with heavy detective/mystery overtones, but the "drifter" might be more eye-catching. Pulp struggles in the market these days, so I feel like that's a mix designed to fail, no matter how much it makes sense.

Oh, speaking of pulp and pulp adventure archetypes, I feel like Hawkman and Hawkgirl (because they're a buy-one-get-one combo) fit this mold better than anyone at DC, including Aquaman who's pretty damn pulp-y. What little I've read of the current Hawkman title feels like it might be reaching for this vibe, and I really hope the book finds a foothold, even if it is towards the bottom of the charts. I think it might be worth the effort of keeping alive.

As for exploring being a superhero celebrity, I'd say there is no better option than Wonder Woman. But the only comic book writer with the experience needed to write such an arc that I know of would be Neil Gaiman. But maybe you're thinking more of a superhero celebrity who actively seeks the rewards of fame?

It could be a glory hound like Booster, or it could be someone who just lives their life in the public eye like the Fantastic Four. I think the "celebrity" archetype is pretty wide. Or rather, these archetypes we're discussing *should* be wide. After all, its not necessarily just who would fit how, it's who could be the penultimate example of that archetype; the "god" in DC's pantheon of that particular concept.

What about the "science explorer" hero? I know we have the Challengers of the Unknown, but they rarely work out in the long run, and the Terrifics is ending soon.

Ah, another good one! I think the Atom is a great suggestion, but I think there's more mileage in the Terrifics than just this one New Age title, and it's an idea that deserves more effort.

So, what about the Everyman? I feel like a lot of us could agree that the biggest Everyman at DC (in terms of how he fits the mold as well as presence in the DCU) is Barry Allen, yeah? Anti-Hero, I feel like that's Harley Quinn, with Red Hood waiting in the wings should Harley's fame come crashing down.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Everyman is pretty easy as most superheroes tend to have elements of the Everyman in them but I'd nominate Animal Man.

Red Hood or Vigilante are good choices for Anti-hero.

The Professional is pretty hard to figure out for me.

[lemonpeace]

I think an archetype we don't see used effectively would be the Sage/Seeker. Someone (generally someone with an Outsider perspective) who seeks out and expounds wisdom and answers to the "Big Questions"; not so much scientific but more philosophical.

I think they got two choices on this one, either John Stewart or Martian Manhunter.

Martian Manhunter - MM could be something of a Sage for the League and ultimately the rest of the DC landscape, which I think Snyder is somewhat positioning him to be in his Justice League run. Considering his empathetic powers and drive to prevent any planet from suffering the same fate as Mars, I can see this being a solid fit.

John Stewart - for John I can see him fulfilling this role particularly for newer heroes of color considering his skillset and experience. As he was raised an activist, served as a marine, and worked as an architect, he's intimately in-tune with the human condition; and considering he's one of the best minds in the Green Lanterns as well as their leader once, he has an in depth knowledge of otherworldly cultures. I think, once they finally all puts all the trauma from Xanshi to bed and allow him to lighten up once and for all, they could use that to have him use his knowledge to bring a sense of cosmic-minded wisdom to earth.

Both - we could also have these two play off each other. With their relationship recently mended we could have them both play the Sage role but in different ways. J'onn mentoring John and being the more traditional Sage role and John, considering all Lanterns end up in bouncing between earth and space, being more of the traveling the cosmos for knowledge Seeker-Sage type.

[DrNewGod]

What about the "science explorer" hero? I know we have the Challengers of the Unknown, but they rarely work out in the long run, and the Terrifics is ending soon.

Captain Comet was created as a science explorer, and The Silver/Bronze Age Hawkman and Hawkwoman often filled the role. Cyborg tho, might be another reasonable fit.

[DrNewGod]

The concept absent is the professional: the one who is good in his work but it is not particulary altruistic. The kind of person who consider being a hero his job, but it is not tormented or a unselfish crusader, just a regular joe doing his work. The name of Mahattan Guardian seems the right man for the job.

Arsenal could easily be refit for this. For that matter, so could most of the former sidekicks. It would be a nice alternative to trying to decide when or if they get to take over the family business.

[j9ac9k]

I think an archetype we don't see used effectively would be the Sage/Seeker. Someone (generally someone with an Outsider perspective) who seeks out and expounds wisdom and answers to the "Big Questions"; not so much scientific but more philosophical.

It's all there in your description. For a more grounded version of this archetype, look no further than Vic Sage, The Question. This is much more of O'Neil's version of the character than any other iteration.

[Thaxander12]

Totally agree there!

The Patriot Hero: Skyrocket. DC doesn't really have a prominent Captain America type, but I think Skyrocket can be the modern version who served in the Middle East. As a vet, an officer, a super-hero and a young black woman she lives in many worlds and is in a place to talk about America in a way that most DC heroes can't. Superman represents america in many ways, but he has frequently placed himself above national loyalties. Skyrocket can be unapologetically American, with all that entails.

Interesting! But what about other characters? Like Commander Steel(who kind of has Wolverine's unbreakable bones, but also cap's colors)

Does the mythical archetype count as one that we need?

[j9ac9k]

Another great archetype DC is lacking! Yeah, Skyrocket could work in that role. In order to make her the main "archetype" (in DC's pantheon-ish ways) she'd have to have a much bigger profile though. How would you bring her in and make her a bigger presence in the DCU?

One, I'd start her off as working for the government as the military point-person for super-hero activities and make sure if anyone wrote a story that somehow involved the military, that she'd have a presence.

Two, Relaunch or at least re-envision how groups like Suicide Squad, Checkmate, DEO etc all get along or how they function in relation to each other, then set Skyrocket as the most traditionally "heroic" within that system and that world which mostly operates in the grey areas.

Three, solo series. Give her a life, a better backstory and a real motivation more tied into her patriotism, her time in the Navy and hopes for the American Dream rather than the murdered parents trope.

[byrd156]

A lot of the DC heroes are are split up into "families" but there isn't really a family book. I know the idea of an Atoms book has been thrown around here. I think that would be a great group that could merge the idea of a family book and an Atom book.

You would have Ray and Ryan, bring back Jean as a sane person with Giganta and Hawkman guest starring. Possibly introduced some microverse style characters and I think it would be a lot of fun.

[lemonpeace]

It's all there in your description. For a more grounded version of this archetype, look no further than Vic Sage, The Question. This is much more of O'Neil's version of the character than any other iteration.

I'm not well-versed on the Question but he seems more the gritty conspiracy crime noir type, I'm thinking more emotionally intelligent metaphysics-tinged explorer type.

[j9ac9k]

I'm not well-versed on the Question but he seems more the gritty conspiracy crime noir type, I'm thinking more emotionally intelligent metaphysics-tinged explorer type.

The Question has gone through several different, distinct iterations and approaches to the character. Ditko created him to be a more Objectivist (right is right, wrong is wrong - no compromise) crusader. This is the version that Moore used as the basis for Rorschach. In the Dennis O'Neil/Dennys Cowan "The Question" series, he got shot in the head and left for dead but was saved by Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon and became much more of a zen philosopher/martial artist - questioning his previously intractable viewpoint and investigated human nature as much as he investigated crimes. This is the version that fits the archetype in question. He didn't really become a conspiracy theorist "Mulder" type until the JLU cartoon series. (he was also shown to be an "urban Shaman" during another mini-series, but that was a bit out there and I won't even get into the "Trinity of Sin" version)