What should happen to men on Themyscira?

[AmiMizuno]

Depends on the men.

If they're hostile or belligerent, the Amazons subdue them and either kick them off the island, imprison them, or kill them if no other acceptable options exist.

If they aren't hostile, the Amazons greet them, offer help if they need it, inform them that they can't remain on the Island, and make every effort to help them return home.

Instant disqualification if the Amazons even threaten violence on a nonviolent man.

Agreed. I do think that should be truth. What if the Island itself has a protection? That the men would be turned into one of the doom gate monster? The Amazons either have the option of taking him to the transformation island or kill him. The island should be seeing into the mans heart. I feel the same should be with women.

[Geraldofrivia]

I think it is time DC discarded sexist no men on Island rule to no mortals and non magical beings on the Island rule. It will disqualify a lot of people without sounding sexist.

[kjn]

Provided we are in a situation that Themyscira is reasonably accessible from outside, and we have no magic interfering, I think the Amazons should still disallow men on Themyscira. Having a guesthouse on a separate island or compound (for shipwrecked men, couriers, envoys, and so on) makes sense, and was a common feature of many monasteries and temples.

For a real-world comparison, see Mount Athos.

[Harpsikord]

Depends on the men.

If they're hostile or belligerent, the Amazons subdue them and either kick them off the island, imprison them, or kill them if no other acceptable options exist.

If they aren't hostile, the Amazons greet them, offer help if they need it, inform them that they can't remain on the Island, and make every effort to help them return home.

Instant disqualification if the Amazons even threaten violence on a nonviolent man.

Honestly, this is it. With the way amazons have been portrayed up to now, barring a few specific points (Azz's run and Amazon's Attack, both now noncanonical bar a few points of Azz's run), this should be absolutely be it. And murder should be the FINAL option.

I will point out that current continuity has it so that nothing happens to the men or Amazon's from a mystical standpoint, and it should stay that way.

[brettc1]

Nothing, because there shouldn't be any men on the island in the first place. I miss the sci-fy floating platforms men had to stand on in the Bronze Age to keep from touching the island's soil. Barring that, Themyscira should protect itself against unwanted male intrusion. I'm thinking of vicious attacks from mythological beasts that rise up in bloodlust at the scent of excess testosterone, but lie dormant in the presence of estrogen.

OMG - is this for real?

Sounds like something I have heard before and would be happy NEVER to hear again in a Wonder Woman comic...

[Korath]

OMG - is this for real?

Sounds like something I have heard before and would be happy NEVER to hear again in a Wonder Woman comic...

A whole civilization based on radical isolationism during thousands of years has its members expressing nauseous opinions based on their isolationist tendencies. How shocking.

In other news, some white folks around the world still espouses racialists and racists ideologies and spout horrors when confronted.

Seriously, if the Amazons absolutely isolationists and rejecting of Man's world, then they are far closer to Azzarello's than any other depiction.

[brettc1]

A whole civilization based on radical isolationism during thousands of years has its members expressing nauseous opinions based on their isolationist tendencies. How shocking.

In other news, some white folks around the world still espouses racialists and racists ideologies and spout horrors when confronted.

Seriously, if the Amazons absolutely isolationists and rejecting of Man's world, then they are far closer to Azzarello's than any other depiction.

Yes, because all Shaolin monks who seek isolation turn into homicidal maniacs.

This take, and this view, of the Amazons is usually born of a lack of understanding that in most stories their isolation was imposed. Patty Jenkins and the movie writers wisely chose to move beyond the idea that Amazons would automatically try and kill any man who set foot on the island.

If I want a story about crazy xenophobes with murderous tendencies, I can pick up pretty much any recent story about Namor the Submariner.

[Koriand'r]

OMG - is this for real?

Sounds like something I have heard before and would be happy NEVER to hear again in a Wonder Woman comic...

Those scans have nothing to do with what I said. I said the island should reject men, not the Amazons themselves, however I do like Craymond's idea too.

I posted long ago that the island should be enchanted to destroy maleness... rather than kill men. It transforms the male chromosome into the female one. Men that exist within the magical bubble of Themyscira get sick and die from the transformation, unless tended to by Amazon sorceress-physicians, or sent out. The design was to keep male gods out as well.

I liked it as a creepy solution but the only problem I had was trying to keep male Cyclops, Satyrs, and Centaurs on the island and alive.

[Geraldofrivia]

A whole civilization based on radical isolationism during thousands of years has its members expressing nauseous opinions based on their isolationist tendencies. How shocking.

In other news, some white folks around the world still espouses racialists and racists ideologies and spout horrors when confronted.

Seriously, if the Amazons absolutely isolationists and rejecting of Man's world, then they are far closer to Azzarello's than any other depiction.

Yes Because White people like Amazons were raped, forsed into slavery for years or even killed and reincarnated by God's.

If Azzarello Amazon's were real, they would never be Isolationt but a genocidal race like Moguls that would have tried to colonize, rape, plunder Humans instead of hiding in Island

[Korath]

Yes, because all Shaolin monks who seek isolation turn into homicidal maniacs.

This take, and this view, of the Amazons is usually born of a lack of understanding that in most stories their isolation was imposed. Patty Jenkins and the movie writers wisely chose to move beyond the idea that Amazons would automatically try and kill any man who set foot on the island.

If I want a story about crazy xenophobes with murderous tendencies, I can pick up pretty much any recent story about Namor the Submariner.

Their exiles has stopped to be imposed thousands of years ago, when the men who forced them to seek refuge on the Island and their whole civilizations died. It is a fallacy to pretend that after thousands of years, the Amazons are seeking protection from cruel men outside. They have chosen to forge a segregating and isolationist society.

The Amazons are not simply a haven for hurt and maltreated women. They are not a place where those women could come, heal at their rythme and then return into the world to try and change it if they feel like it. The Amazons live on an island where contact with the outside world is shunned, where Men are essentialized as naturally inclined to being cruel, brutal and evil. The Amazons are victims who have decided that it was better to segregate themselves and stew and their pain and suffering instead of even trying to change the world after it hurt them. They are not, in any way, shape, or form, beacons of civlizations or shining examplars of human beings.

And I'll have you know that the Shaolin monks, like the Orthodox Priests, the Wiccan High Priest/ess, the Buddhist bonzes, etc. can be extremely scornful toward outsiders. For instance, in Greece's Mount Athos, an island-monestary, women are not allowed because they aren't pure enough. I guarantee you that the male priests and monks there won't have a high view of women and outsiders in general.

Yes Because White people like Amazons were raped, forsed into slavery for years or even killed and reincarnated by God's.

If Azzarello Amazon's were real, they would never be Isolationt but a genocidal race like Moguls that would have tried to colonize, rape, plunder Humans instead of hiding in Island

No. But White peoples and Amazons have had social constructs which promotes racism/misandry and in the case of the Amazons, it is still clearly the case.

And if Azzarello's amazons were real, they would be as depicted by him, precisely because isolationism and retreat from a "corrupt" world are dominant traits of their culture. Like in the Tokugawa's Japan.

[Geraldofrivia]

Their exiles has stopped to be imposed thousands of years ago, when the men who forced them to seek refuge on the Island and their whole civilizations died. It is a fallacy to pretend that after thousands of years, the Amazons are seeking protection from cruel men outside. They have chosen to forge a segregating and isolationist society.

The Amazons are not simply a haven for hurt and maltreated women. They are not a place where those women could come, heal at their rythme and then return into the world to try and change it if they feel like it. The Amazons live on an island where contact with the outside world is shunned, where Men are essentialized as naturally inclined to being cruel, brutal and evil. The Amazons are victims who have decided that it was better to segregate themselves and stew and their pain and suffering instead of even trying to change the world after it hurt them. They are not, in any way, shape, or form, beacons of civlizations or shining examplars of human beings.

And I'll have you know that the Shaolin monks, like the Orthodox Priests, the Wiccan High Priest/ess, the Buddhist bonzes, etc. can be extremely scornful toward outsiders. For instance, in Greece's Mount Athos, an island-monestary, women are not allowed because they aren't pure enough. I guarantee you that the male priests and monks there won't have a high view of women and outsiders in general.



No. But White peoples and Amazons have had social constructs which promotes racism/misandry and in the case of the Amazons, it is still clearly the case.

And if Azzarello's amazons were real, they would be as depicted by him, precisely because isolationism and retreat from a "corrupt" world are dominant traits of their culture. Like in the Tokugawa's Japan.

Yes Hercules,Ares all died thousands of years ago. Mankind also for thousands of years have treated woman as equal and equality is definitely not a 20th century invention.

[greatmetropolitan]

For me, the Amazons should be paragons of love and understanding, everything they do is rooted in compassion and higher principles. If men aren't allowed on Paradise Island, there should be a reason for that which doesn't involve "men are, by their nature, bad" and the solution to it should never, ever be outright murder if they can avoid it. Wonder Woman is all about love, so the place she was raised can't be actively bloodthirsty.

I like the idea of the island being cursed and so a terrible fate befalls men who stay there too long. I'd perhaps root the curse in the nature of the man who sets foot on the island, though. The worse the man, the faster/worse the curse. That's why, say, Superman can visit. (though Clark would hover at all times, out of respect). This way you can say that every man who has actively come looking for Themyscira has had their worst tendencies brought out and amplified - most of these men will likely be treasure seekers and greedy, or see the island as a threat. This curse has had the effect of souring the Amazons' opinions of men, as any man who DID land turned nasty very quickly. But ultimately, the Amazons aren't bloodthirsty or cruel or unreasonable. They wouldn't kill anyone just for being there.

[brettc1]

Those scans have nothing to do with what I said. I said the island should reject men, not the Amazons themselves, however I do like Craymond's idea too.

Same difference - the Amazons willingly live in a place that will kill people based on irrational prejudice.

Their exiles has stopped to be imposed thousands of years ago, when the men who forced them to seek refuge on the Island and their whole civilizations died. It is a fallacy to pretend that after thousands of years, the Amazons are seeking protection from cruel men outside. They have chosen to forge a segregating and isolationist society.

The Amazons are not simply a haven for hurt and maltreated women. They are not a place where those women could come, heal at their rythme and then return into the world to try and change it if they feel like it. The Amazons live on an island where contact with the outside world is shunned, where Men are essentialized as naturally inclined to being cruel, brutal and evil. The Amazons are victims who have decided that it was better to segregate themselves and stew and their pain and suffering instead of even trying to change the world after it hurt them. They are not, in any way, shape, or form, beacons of civlizations or shining examplars of human beings.

Almost all of this ignores the facts.

In the Marston run, their exile was imposed on them by Aphrodite.

In the Perez run, their exile was imposed on them by a group of gods who set up a force field that prevented anyone from getting on or off the island.

Further, in the Perez run when the barrier dropped the Amazons made a conscious choice to become a part of the outside world.

In the current run, there is again a magical barrier stopping the Amazons from connecting.

And I'll have you know that the Shaolin monks, like the Orthodox Priests, the Wiccan High Priest/ess, the Buddhist bonzes, etc. can be extremely scornful toward outsiders. For instance, in Greece's Mount Athos, an island-monestary, women are not allowed because they aren't pure enough. I guarantee you that the male priests and monks there won't have a high view of women and outsiders in general.

CAN BE does not mean MUST BE.

And if Azzarello's amazons were real, they would be as depicted by him, precisely because isolationism and retreat from a "corrupt" world are dominant traits of their culture. Like in the Tokugawa's Japan.

Sure. If Tokugawa Japan were sealed off from all possible contact by a group of deities. LOL

[Korath]

Sure. If Tokugawa Japan were sealed off from all possible contact by a group of deities. LOL

It is largely irrelevant. No Amazon revolted against the segregationism; even the Bana Migdhall didn't, they only rejected the idea that they had to be secluded in an island outside of the world and resented the Greek Gods for trying to impose it on them. But the Themyscyra Amazons supported this isolationism and the segregation it was founded upon.

And that's what matters : the Amazon never rebelled against those edicts; they then promoted a culture which villify an essentialized Other, in this case Man. And in case you didn't know it, under Tokugawa's rule, foreigner stranding ashore in Japan were killed. They were only allowed in minuscule enclaves and forbidden to set foot in the main islands. It was the rule, because the society had chosen to seclude itself from the outside world.

And when I say "the society had chosen", I mean that its rulers chose to promote isolatinism, enforced it and after the first hundred years, it became ingrained into the population, to the point that the Shogun lost his powers because he couldn't uphold the isolationist policy and thus lot all credibility. And, for all intent and purpose, the Imperial Family was considered god-like and supported the absolute isolationism.

In fact, Tokugawa's Japan bears a lot of ressemblance with the Amazon's civilization, in that warriors forged a peaceful society, albeit at the cost of unchanging social order, rejection of the outside world and exaltation of what made Japanese uniques. They also closed the borders of the country to Japanese living abroad, not unlike Amazons closed their borders to all the women outside their island who would have sorely needed champions to protect themselves and confront the rise of the monotheism (far more nefarious for woman's rights and standing in society that any polytheism, including the Greek Pantheon).

[Nyssane]

Depends on the men.

If they're hostile or belligerent, the Amazons subdue them and either kick them off the island, imprison them, or kill them if no other acceptable options exist.

If they aren't hostile, the Amazons greet them, offer help if they need it, inform them that they can't remain on the Island, and make every effort to help them return home.

Instant disqualification if the Amazons even threaten violence on a nonviolent man.

This is largely how I feel.

As for the island itself, I do prefer the idea that no man can set foot on the island without divine intervention. Which is why Ares was able to "open the gateway" for Steve Trevor in Perez's run and led to him being the first man on the island.