Classic swimsuit vs Rebirth/movie battle armor

[Amazon Swordsman]

the problem isn't the costume having a sword and shield, it's the writers and artists not putting any thought into how to better utilize her lasso and all the things it can do. The movie was an excellent example of what can be done with the lasso as an offensive weapon, we just need the comic book writers to follow the lead and better utilize it over the sword and shield.

Has her lasso ever functioned as a sword and shield?

[WonderScott]

Well in the film she has that costume, and in the final battle against Ares she doesn't use a sword (it was destroyed) or shield (she loses it). She only uses the lasso and her own strength. So that's not really a problem with the costume itself.

Yeah, I mean the newest version of Diana running around the DCnU and Rebirth. As in, I have no problem with the costume design, but I'm against the sword.

[WonderScott]

the problem isn't the costume having a sword and shield, it's the writers and artists not putting any thought into how to better utilize her lasso and all the things it can do. The movie was an excellent example of what can be done with the lasso as an offensive weapon, we just need the comic book writers to follow the lead and better utilize it over the sword and shield.

I'm for kicking the sword to the curb, personally. I'm not against her picking one up from time to time (like Batman, or the Flash, or Black Canary, or Vixen might in a particular situation), but she doesn't need to be known for having a sword versus the lasso as her main and most important weapon as they've attempted to do in the DCnU or Rebirth. She just doesn't need it anymore than Batman needs a gun. It just shouldn't be her thing.

[Agent Z]

True,but as the earlier comment pointed out,Superman and Batman's outfits can be just as silly and the characters are still taken seriously. So this defence rings a bit hollow in regards to the classic outfit.

Look I get the Swimsuit as some fan servicely elements that a lot of people are turned off by.I see the skirt as a happy compromise in that regard. But retiring the Swimsuit on the sole basics that 'it looks silly' doesn't really make sense to me.

In the case of the swim suit, the fanservice elements are why it is considered silly.

[Koriand'r]

Yeah but they haven't brought back Diana's swimsuit.

They will eventually. Like the Diana Prince identity, the Invisible Jet and kangas, everything comes back in time.

It seems a lot of the resentment against the classic costume is based on things that have nothing to do with the outfit itself. I can't believe that ONE Wonder Woman artist drew a Wonder thong (that increased sales and launched his career) 20 years ago (when thongs were in style by the way) has ruined the classic costume for all eternity.

The pendulum will swing back again

[kjn]

Has her lasso ever functioned as a sword and shield?

That's not what OBrianTallent meant, I think. He said that the comic book writers should start using the lasso more than a sword or a shield. For myself, I think the order of priority should be lasso used more (lots more!) than shield, and the shield used more than the sword.

I think the only scenario when the sword should come out at once is if she fights undead or similar beings, and maybe not even then. I mean, Christopher Moeller had her fight the entire league and the Drakul Karfang without having her use her sword even once in A League of One.

In the case of the swim suit, the fanservice elements are why it is considered silly.

It's not only that: it goes back to the clothing that the superhero garbs are inspired by and modelled on. In the case of Superman, it's classic strongman garb, clothing meant to do strength of feats in and handle a lot of stress (that's the origin of the trunks). But in Diana's case, the origin is in the pinup clothing. It's not meant to be practical, only to show off as much body as possible within the bounds of propriety.

[Koriand'r]

That's not what OBrianTallent meant, I think. He said that the comic book writers should start using the lasso more than a sword or a shield. For myself, I think the order of priority should be lasso used more (lots more!) than shield, and the shield used more than the sword.

I think the only scenario when the sword should come out at once is if she fights undead or similar beings, and maybe not even then. I mean, Christopher Moeller had her fight the entire league and the Drakul Karfang without having her use her sword even once in A League of One.



It's not only that: it goes back to the clothing that the superhero garbs are inspired by and modelled on. In the case of Superman, it's classic strongman garb, clothing meant to do strength of feats in and handle a lot of stress (that's the origin of the trunks). But in Diana's case, the origin is in the pinup clothing. It's not meant to be practical, only to show off as much body as possible within the bounds of propriety.

That's not true, at the time of its creation sweetheart necklines were all the rage. From swimsuits to evening gowns it was a common silhouette seen in many movies from the early 40's. Yes her costume was supposed to be sexy, but that wasn't the foremost thought in it's design, patriotism and athleticism were.

[Koriand'r]

WW Exercise.jpg

WW Exercise 2.jpg

WW Exercise 3.jpg

[kjn]

That's not true, at the time of its creation sweetheart necklines were all the rage. From swimsuits to evening gowns it was a common silhouette seen in many movies from the early 40's. Yes her costume was supposed to be sexy, but that wasn't the foremost thought in it's design, patriotism and athleticism were.

There are however differences. While Superman became more covered than the classic strongmen (who often had bare legs and arms), Wonder Woman became less covered than the costumes that you show. Especially the bare shoulders: it moved the clothing pretty firmly from the one used for sportswomen to sexy underwear in the period it was designed.

[Koriand'r]

There are however differences. While Superman became more covered than the classic strongmen (who often had bare legs and arms), Wonder Woman became less covered than the costumes that you show. Especially the bare shoulders: it moved the clothing pretty firmly from the one used for sportswomen to sexy underwear in the period it was designed.

Not underwear.

WW Exercise 4.jpg

[SiegePerilous02]

They will eventually. Like the Diana Prince identity, the Invisible Jet and kangas, everything comes back in time.

It seems a lot of the resentment against the classic costume is based on things that have nothing to do with the outfit itself. I can't believe that ONE Wonder Woman artist drew a Wonder thong (that increased sales and launched his career) 20 years ago (when thongs were in style by the way) has ruined the classic costume for all eternity.

The pendulum will swing back again

Even outside of artists drawing it poorly, the classic costume just sparks endless debates of "Is it sexist to put her in it, or sexist to take her out of it?" The new costume just avoids all that even if it shows roughly the same amount of skin, because it has all the iconic elements, is recognizable, and looks like something that would believably come from her culture. Unlike other costume revamps, it's popular among the majority, so while the pendulum might swing back, it's unlikely to do so anytime soon. Especially when the prolific movie version is a hit and is the version for the modern fans.

As for the other stuff, I wouldn't expect Diana Prince back in any regular capacity, especially in the main canon. There is no practical reason for it to exist. Not having access to Themyscira and no way to play ambassador to the Amazons would have been a good reason to introduce it (like the films did), but that ship sailed. She's not likely to make any regular use of it now. Even Grant "No Golden or Silver age element is too obscure for me to use!" Morrison didn't see any reason to use Diana Prince.

[OBrianTallent]

Has her lasso ever functioned as a sword and shield?

That's not what OBrianTallent meant, I think. He said that the comic book writers should start using the lasso more than a sword or a shield. For myself, I think the order of priority should be lasso used more (lots more!) than shield, and the shield used more than the sword.

I think the only scenario when the sword should come out at once is if she fights undead or similar beings, and maybe not even then. I mean, Christopher Moeller had her fight the entire league and the Drakul Karfang without having her use her sword even once in A League of One.



It's not only that: it goes back to the clothing that the superhero garbs are inspired by and modelled on. In the case of Superman, it's classic strongman garb, clothing meant to do strength of feats in and handle a lot of stress (that's the origin of the trunks). But in Diana's case, the origin is in the pinup clothing. It's not meant to be practical, only to show off as much body as possible within the bounds of propriety.

Yes, I did not mean to use the lasso as a sword necessarily, but in some instances it perhaps could be. It could certainly be used as a shield (and has been in the 70s and 80s stories) but there could be many other ways to utilize it. Gail Simone did some incredible work during her run almost giving it a personality of it's own and making it a seriously powerful weapon. I would far more rather see her using her lasso and bracers over a sword and shield (and the same goes even more so for Donna Troy!)

[Agent 86]

Neither.

I'd like to see a more practical version of her Rebirth / DCEU costume - the strapless bodice should instead cover Diana's entire upper torso, the high, wedge heels on the boots should be removed, the skirt should be slightly lengthened and the unnecessary paraphernalia should all be removed (e.g. the Sam Browne belt which obstructs her chest symbol and the hand wrappings which are unnecessary for a demigoddess).

If I had to choose between the Rebirth / DCEU costume and the classic costumes (panties or skirt), then I'd definitely choose Rebirth / DCEU.

[Ascended]

Grant "No Golden or Silver age element is too obscure for me to use!" Morrison

I think this is my favorite thing I have ever seen you write.

Frikkin love Morrison, the crazy old bastard!

What were people's thoughts on his Earth-1 and the "costume" Diana wore?

[kjn]

ETA: misread the question