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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Frikkin love Morrison, the crazy old bastard! What were people's thoughts on his Earth-1 and the "costume" Diana wore?
    I thought the costume looked decent, but also rather bland. It didn't really add anything compared to the older costumes, or appear organically in the story.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Even outside of artists drawing it poorly, the classic costume just sparks endless debates of "Is it sexist to put her in it, or sexist to take her out of it?" The new costume just avoids all that even if it shows roughly the same amount of skin, because it has all the iconic elements, is recognizable, and looks like something that would believably come from her culture. Unlike other costume revamps, it's popular among the majority, so while the pendulum might swing back, it's unlikely to do so anytime soon. Especially when the prolific movie version is a hit and is the version for the modern fans.

    As for the other stuff, I wouldn't expect Diana Prince back in any regular capacity, especially in the main canon. There is no practical reason for it to exist. Not having access to Themyscira and no way to play ambassador to the Amazons would have been a good reason to introduce it (like the films did), but that ship sailed. She's not likely to make any regular use of it now. Even Grant "No Golden or Silver age element is too obscure for me to use!" Morrison didn't see any reason to use Diana Prince.
    Yet somehow the DCEU felt the need to place Diana Prince in the movies, she's appeared in every one Wonder Woman has.

    As for swinging pendulums, I stated reading Hulk with Peter David's Joe Fixit, then came the Hulk's Pantheon adventures. He was smart, handsome, well dressed, many jokes were made about his previous torn purple trousers that made them seem dated and from another era. At the time it was unimaginable that they'd return, however fast forward to The Immortal Hulk 20 years later and there they are.

    As for Wonder Woman's swimsuit costume, in a way it's already back, this book was released in 2018.

    WW EARTH ONE VOL. 2.jpg

  3. #63
    Fantastic Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    They will eventually. Like the Diana Prince identity, the Invisible Jet and kangas, everything comes back in time.

    It seems a lot of the resentment against the classic costume is based on things that have nothing to do with the outfit itself. I can't believe that ONE Wonder Woman artist drew a Wonder thong (that increased sales and launched his career) 20 years ago (when thongs were in style by the way) has ruined the classic costume for all eternity.

    The pendulum will swing back again
    I don't know that it's accurate to describe what folks feel about the old costume as "resentment". Personally, I just think it's simply dated. I've loved Wonder Woman since my childhood when I discovered the Lynda Carter reruns. That was a long time ago, and her initial creation and design was about 30-40 years prior to that! It's obvious that her outfit echoed popular real-life looks of the time, but why should she be stuck in that same look from 70 years ago?

    In the years since, there have been multiple popular characters, a lot of them female, that have sprung out from books, video games, and television shows that no one would dream of putting in a strapless swimsuit costume. You could probably get away with it if your character is only appearing in a comic book, but I think a few modern tweeks would help Wonder Woman seem less ridiculously clothed to a larger audience.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    I don't know that it's accurate to describe what folks feel about the old costume as "resentment". Personally, I just think it's simply dated. I've loved Wonder Woman since my childhood when I discovered the Lynda Carter reruns. That was a long time ago, and her initial creation and design was about 30-40 years prior to that! It's obvious that her outfit echoed popular real-life looks of the time, but why should she be stuck in that same look from 70 years ago?

    In the years since, there have been multiple popular characters, a lot of them female, that have sprung out from books, video games, and television shows that no one would dream of putting in a strapless swimsuit costume. You could probably get away with it if your character is only appearing in a comic book, but I think a few modern tweeks would help Wonder Woman seem less ridiculously clothed to a larger audience.
    So it all comes back to skin? The current penchant for modesty won't last forever. Much to the chagrin of many contemporary comic book readers skin isn't going anywhere in real life. Eventually it will seem odd something so readily available in the world, so rarely appears on the page. That reminds me of a song...


    "In olden days, a glimpse of stocking
    Was looked on as something shocking.
    But now, God knows,
    Anything goes.
    Good authors too who once knew better words
    Now only use four-letter words
    Writing prose.
    Anything goes.
    If driving fast cars you like,
    If low bars you like,
    If old hymns you like,
    If bare limbs you like,
    If Mae West you like,
    Or me undressed you like,
    Why, nobody will oppose.
    When ev'ry night the set that's smart is in-
    Truding in nudist parties in
    Studios.
    Anything goes"

    Cole Porter wrote that in 1934.


    What initially attracted me to Wonder Woman was the Golden Age costume and how it contrasted with the then modern one. That's what's so great about it. You can tweak it here or there to make it fit whatever's popular in current fashion. From strappy red high-heeled sandals to solid red go-go boots, raise the bust-line lower the hemline, adjust the star-field, go from eagle to double W's then morph the two into one and change the tiara and bracelets to fit your aesthetic, the costume remains fiercely recognizable.

    As is the Rebirth costume, but it's only a modern take on yesterday's, the swimsuit will return as all classics do.

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    What were people's thoughts on his Earth-1 and the "costume" Diana wore?
    Which one? She has many costumes in the book.

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Yet somehow the DCEU felt the need to place Diana Prince in the movies, she's appeared in every one Wonder Woman has.
    I already clarified that the films have a good in-story reason for her to use it: she was in the original setting of a world war where she was mingling with mortals to find Ares, and she held onto the ID because she had no way to get back home and play ambassador to the Amazons and wanted to keep a low profile as she lived in our world for over a century. That is not how Diana's character is set up in the comics canon right now. There is no justifiable in-story reason for her to suddenly use Diana Prince again, she has no reason for it. Rucka only used it for a couple issues and then dropped it while she was hiding from Godwatch, but didn't build an entire impractical life around it



    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    As for Wonder Woman's swimsuit costume, in a way it's already back, this book was released in 2018.

    WW EARTH ONE VOL. 2.jpg
    That's an elseworld story though, not the main canon. Showing up in a couple self contained volumes is not much competition for the main canon and the prominent other media the new costume is appearing in.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    I remain unconvinced. All things are possible in time. Gal Gadot won't be Wonder Woman always, one day she'll be in Lynda Carter's position and a new actress will take over the role. What will she wear?

  8. #68
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    She'll probably wear something similar to what Gadot wears: battle skirt, armory-boots, bracers/bracelets/gauntlets. Maybe they'll ditch the wrappings and the sword & shield, but I cannot see them putting her in the swimsuit or the shorts. They wouldn't want the inevitable backlash.

    "You're dead!"- Soldier
    "You first"- Lightning, Final Fantasy XIII

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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    She'll probably wear something similar to what Gadot wears: battle skirt, armory-boots, bracers/bracelets/gauntlets. Maybe they'll ditch the wrappings and the sword & shield, but I cannot see them putting her in the swimsuit or the shorts. They wouldn't want the inevitable backlash.
    What backlash? There's no way you can tell me that based on her outfit this image of Wonder Woman from my childhood is less acceptable, than the current one drawn by Tony Daniels.

    WW CHRISTMAS 7.jpg

    WW TONY DANIEL 8.jpg

    The outfit isn't the problem, it's all in how you draw it.

    Who knows? In the future the satin tights and metallic gold sparkle of Lynda Carter's outfit may be more popular than the battleskirt and sword and shield of today.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; 11-27-2018 at 10:02 AM.

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    The swimsuit might make a return, but I believe it's more likely that she'll next end up in some sort of tennis or gymnastics dress, either a skirt or coulottes. The infographic put together by Halloweencostumes is a great reference, and it shows that Earth One wasn't so much a return to the 1940s as to the 1970s, with the high-cut shorts, the all-red high-heeled boots, and the golden girdle. The large armlets are more from the 1990s, apparently.

  11. #71
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    What backlash? There's no way you can tell me that based on her outfit this image of Wonder Woman from my childhood is less acceptable, than the current one drawn by Tony Daniels.

    WW CHRISTMAS 7.jpg

    WW TONY DANIEL 8.jpg

    The outfit isn't the problem, it's all in how you draw it.

    Who knows? In the future the satin tights and metallic gold sparkle of Lynda Carter's outfit may be more popular than the battleskirt and sword and shield of today.
    I personally have mixed feelings about the outfit itself, but I know for a fact that the Internet would have a fit if the next actress wore the swimsuit because that's kind of what the Internet does.

    Stranger things have happened, so the older costume could come back into play again. Is it likely? Probably not. But it's not totally impossible either.

    "You're dead!"- Soldier
    "You first"- Lightning, Final Fantasy XIII

    "Yes, boo, cause this is Calvin Klein and I don't play that ****" - Tanisha

    "You look like a fairy princess...that resides over the pits of hell." - New York

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I remain unconvinced. All things are possible in time. Gal Gadot won't be Wonder Woman always, one day she'll be in Lynda Carter's position and a new actress will take over the role. What will she wear?
    Considering it (unfortunately) took us this long just to get to Gadot, and she's popular enough to not be going anywhere anytime soon, some live action future that is only possible at this point isn't worth speculating on. And once we get to that point, they are just as likely to use Gadot's costume or make an entirely new one as they are the classic one. If not more so.

    Her movie/Rebirth costume is both a hit with a large chunk of the old fanbase and (more importantly) with a newer fanbase/wider audience. And there are no passionate demands for the return of the classic costume the way there are for Superman's trunks. DC has no incentive to go back to it anytime soon just to cater to the nostalgia of older fans, whom they would be foolish to depend on forever.

  13. #73
    Fantastic Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    So it all comes back to skin? The current penchant for modesty won't last forever. Much to the chagrin of many contemporary comic book readers skin isn't going anywhere in real life. Eventually it will seem odd something so readily available in the world, so rarely appears on the page.

    What initially attracted me to Wonder Woman was the Golden Age costume and how it contrasted with the then modern one. That's what's so great about it. You can tweak it here or there to make it fit whatever's popular in current fashion. From strappy red high-heeled sandals to solid red go-go boots, raise the bust-line lower the hemline, adjust the star-field, go from eagle to double W's then morph the two into one and change the tiara and bracelets to fit your aesthetic, the costume remains fiercely recognizable.

    As is the Rebirth costume, but it's only a modern take on yesterday's, the swimsuit will return as all classics do.
    I never mentioned anything about skin and I don't see the argument for a more "modest" costume being made too much on this thread. The modern take on her outfit still shows about as much skin as the original & the only immodesty anyone's claimed is in regards to certain artists who've taken to depicting Wonder Woman and her costume in salacious and sexually suggestive ways. Mind you, I don't actually think this is the fault of the original costume design. Catwoman is covered head to toe and that hasn't stopped anyone from presenting her in a variety of nearly carnal poses over the years.

    Now, I don't think contemporary comic book readers or contemporary consumers of media have a problem with skin, per se, but when stacked against the likes of popular modern characters like Katniss Everdeen, Black Widow, Rey from Star Wars, Trinity, Alice from Resident Evil, Selene from Underworld, and even Xena, the bathing suit version of Wonder Woman's costume does start to look a bit silly and dated. Nevermind sex appeal. how are you projecting power in a strapless swimsuit and high heeled boots? Wouldn't someone that literally fights monsters and deadly super villains wear something a little more...robust?

    All arguments aside, I think we're all pretty lucky in that there are several versions of this character and her costume that can please all of us. We have her movie (and the upcoming sequel), the main book, the Earth One stuff, the Super Hero Girls stuff, the Elseworlds, and pretty much her entire back catalogue that isn't going anywhere, because the new thing doesn't necessarily erase the old thing.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Considering it (unfortunately) took us this long just to get to Gadot, and she's popular enough to not be going anywhere anytime soon, some live action future that is only possible at this point isn't worth speculating on. And once we get to that point, they are just as likely to use Gadot's costume or make an entirely new one as they are the classic one. If not more so.

    Her movie/Rebirth costume is both a hit with a large chunk of the old fanbase and (more importantly) with a newer fanbase/wider audience. And there are no passionate demands for the return of the classic costume the way there are for Superman's trunks. DC has no incentive to go back to it anytime soon just to cater to the nostalgia of older fans, whom they would be foolish to depend on forever.
    Really? Then why not change the Wonder Woman merchandise so it ALL reflects Gal Gadot? Who are the old fogies soon to be on their death beds buying all this stuff?

    WW MERCH 21.jpg

    Seriously I googled "Wonder Woman merchandise Target 2018" and this is what I got.

    WW MERCH 100.jpg

    Why does so much of it have the classic costume or logo if all the fans of it are elderly and about to die? Nostalgia isn't selling that shirt for toddlers.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Really? Then why not change the Wonder Woman merchandise so it ALL reflects Gal Gadot? Who are the old fogies soon to be on their death beds buying all this stuff?

    WW MERCH 21.jpg
    Who said anything about people being on their death beds? I think it's more that the merchandise with WW will sell regardless of the design, but the people who specifically want the older costume are going to be nostalgic for it. Casuals are not going to care either way, but DC has no incentive to change it all back to the swimsuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Seriously I googled "Wonder Woman merchandise Target 2018" and this is what I got.

    WW MERCH 100.jpg
    I'm not sure what this image proves exactly, because I only see a couple things with the classic swim suit, DC Superheros doll where she has pants, a lot of stuff with just the logo, and a picture of Gal and her movie costume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Why does so much of it have the classic costume or logo if all the fans of it are elderly and about to die? Nostalgia isn't selling that shirt for toddlers.
    Nobody is equating older nostalgic fans specifically with elderly people about to die, so I don't know where you're going with that. A cartoon character wearing that outfit on the shirt is different than a real life woman running around in it on screen. One is just a shirt you wear. The other is something that needs to be taken seriously to a degree. None of the MCU costumes neatly match their comics either, why should WW be any different? Update with the times and try out new looks, or else these characters get dated.

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