Classic swimsuit vs Rebirth/movie battle armor

[SiegePerilous02]

I think this is my favorite thing I have ever seen you write.

Frikkin love Morrison, the crazy old bastard!

I've grown to love him for exactly that reason!

What were people's thoughts on his Earth-1 and the "costume" Diana wore?

I liked it within the context of the Earth One books. Especially as Etta is the one who gives it to her. it's basically her "Holliday Girl" outfit, which I think is great.

Unfortunately, there is no room for Etta and the Holliday Girls in Rebirth. I would have liked it to be an occasional costume she wore, just not the main one.

[Koriand'r]

Who said anything about people being on their death beds? I think it's more that the merchandise with WW will sell regardless of the design, but the people who specifically want the older costume are going to be nostalgic for it. Casuals are not going to care either way, but DC has no incentive to change it all back to the swimsuit.



I'm not sure what this image proves exactly, because I only see a couple things with the classic swim suit, DC Superheros doll where she has pants, a lot of stuff with just the logo, and a picture of Gal and her movie costume.



Nobody is equating older nostalgic fans specifically with elderly people about to die, so I don't know where you're going with that. A cartoon character wearing that outfit on the shirt is different than a real life woman running around in it on screen. One is just a shirt you wear. The other is something that needs to be taken seriously to a degree. None of the MCU costumes neatly match their comics either, why should WW be any different? Update with the times and try out new looks, or else these characters get dated.

DC has no incentive to go back to it anytime soon just to cater to the nostalgia of older fans, whom they would be foolish to depend on forever.

That's where I got the idea "older fans" are on their death beds. As for the merchandising my point is there's more of it displaying the classic costume or logo than the hit film released 2 years ago, at least in this quick image search. So claims it's too outdated and will never return ring hollow.

This is about comics though and I promise you sooner or later in an Elseworlds tale, a limited series or main continuity the swimsuit will be back.

[SiegePerilous02]

That's where I got the idea "older fans" are on their death beds. As for the merchandising my point is there's more of it displaying the classic costume or logo than the hit film released 2 years ago, at least in this quick image search. So claims it's too outdated and will never return ring hollow.

This is about comics though and I promise you sooner or later in an Elseworlds tale, a limited series or main continuity the swimsuit will be back.

I didn't call them dying elders though, only you did. An established fan base is ALWAYS older, and DC needs to strike a delicate balance between appeasing them and obtaining new fans. Aesthetic revamps are necessary for these characters to survive. Its outdated in that it evidently wasn't seriously considered for a live action portrayal.

Its already back in Elseworlds. But main comics I'm not so sure. They don't seem eager to change it back the way they seem to with Superman or Batman.

[Koriand'r]

I didn't call them dying elders though, only you did. An established fan base is ALWAYS older, and DC needs to strike a delicate balance between appeasing them and obtaining new fans. Aesthetic revamps are necessary for these characters to survive. Its outdated in that it evidently wasn't seriously considered for a live action portrayal.

Its already back in Elseworlds. But main comics I'm not so sure. They don't seem eager to change it back the way they seem to with Superman or Batman.

It's too soon. There's enough merchandise with the classic costume and it's indelible enough there will be a resurgence.

[Muffin Crud]

The movie modern design is the best thing to happen to Diana. Hated the bathing suit.

[Heavunion]

I'm for the swimsuit. I think the Rebirth is a movie design first before being a comic book design. It is way too busy and as a result, it's hard to remember. The colors aren't colorful, the design is busy. It's great for a movie but it's the opposite of what you need for a comic. A great comic costume, in my mind, should be simple and colorful which the swimsuit perfectly does. I can easily draw the Wonder Woman by Perez because it's all simple and colorful

I'm not against a new costume, I get that some would like a new costume but I would like this costume to be a great comic book design instead of just copying the movie one

[Zahina]

Here's Phil Jimenez opinion on the classic costume.


This is my argument for the "bathing suit" costume -- that costume is all about sex, sexual power, sexual defiance, body freedom and absence of shame. Of course it's not "practical;" no superhero costume is. It's a symbol of something else. Thus, the constant need to modify it, to make it battle-ready, to make it "practical" rather defeats the whole purpose of the original costume. This was, originally, a character that was full of fun and light; who saw crime fighting as an adventure; who had no shame about her body; who was a skilled enough athlete and fighter she'd never need armor in the first place (and while she used a sword here and there over her first few decades, it was rare with her, because really, with her power and speed, wouldn't that just be cheating? Where would the fun, and self-betterment be in that?).

[Agent Z]

I'm for the swimsuit. I think the Rebirth is a movie design first before being a comic book design. It is way too busy and as a result, it's hard to remember. The colors aren't colorful, the design is busy. It's great for a movie but it's the opposite of what you need for a comic. A great comic costume, in my mind, should be simple and colorful which the swimsuit perfectly does. I can easily draw the Wonder Woman by Perez because it's all simple and colorful

I'm not against a new costume, I get that some would like a new costume but I would like this costume to be a great comic book design instead of just copying the movie one

The suit really isn't very busy at all. It's a top with a skirt. I've seen way busier designs of the swimsuit.

[kjn]

Jimenez makes a good argument there, and it's similar to the stance Gail Simone takes with Powergirl and her boob window:

Power Girl is a perfect example. I always felt she wore what she liked and go to hell if you don't like it.

But I have a feeling that the argument doesn't really hold up when viewed over a group of superheroines, because the suits are supposed to represent something about the superheroes and -heroines. Superman's costume is colourful and meant to be highly visible. Batman's costume is meant to intimidate and to meld him into the darkness of the city. Nightwing's costume plays up his acrobat past. Aquaman has fish scales and gloves like a fisherman, and colours of the sea. The original Flash costume had lots of running and speed imagery.

But just about every superheroine costume has "sexy body" as the defining characteristic, are primarily drawn by men, and for a long time primarily for a male audience. That's not a good place to start to express female sexual power. There are a few exceptions of course. Supergirl's first costume was basically a miniskirt dress, but it appeared just as they started to become fashionable, and her appearance was more of the wholesome girl next door than sexy. Powergirl's boob window works because it sticks out even for superheroine costumes.

There is also the factor that the uniforms has to make sense for where the character comes from. Wonder Woman's battle skirt clearly fulfills that purpose, the bathing suit not so much. (I note that Darwyn Cooke experimented with a battle skirt for Wonder Woman already back in New Frontier.)

[Koriand'r]

Jimenez makes a good argument there, and it's similar to the stance Gail Simone takes with Powergirl and her boob window:



But I have a feeling that the argument doesn't really hold up when viewed over a group of superheroines, because the suits are supposed to represent something about the superheroes and -heroines. Superman's costume is colourful and meant to be highly visible. Batman's costume is meant to intimidate and to meld him into the darkness of the city. Nightwing's costume plays up his acrobat past. Aquaman has fish scales and gloves like a fisherman, and colours of the sea. The original Flash costume had lots of running and speed imagery.

But just about every superheroine costume has "sexy body" as the defining characteristic, are primarily drawn by men, and for a long time primarily for a male audience. That's not a good place to start to express female sexual power. There are a few exceptions of course. Supergirl's first costume was basically a miniskirt dress, but it appeared just as they started to become fashionable, and her appearance was more of the wholesome girl next door than sexy. Powergirl's boob window works because it sticks out even for superheroine costumes.

There is also the factor that the uniforms has to make sense for where the character comes from. Wonder Woman's battle skirt clearly fulfills that purpose, the bathing suit not so much. (I note that Darwyn Cooke experimented with a battle skirt for Wonder Woman already back in New Frontier.)

Wonder Woman is from Themyscira not ancient Greece. It's a tropical island, the swimsuit fits her culture.

[Agent Z]

Wonder Woman is from Themyscira not ancient Greece. It's a tropical island, the swimsuit fits her culture.

Then why is she the only Amazon who dresses like that?

[kjn]

Wonder Woman is from Themyscira not ancient Greece. It's a tropical island, the swimsuit fits her culture.

On the other hand, the connections between Themyscira and ancient Greece are well-established, including placing Themyscira somewhere off Turkey's coast to the Black Sea. The swimsuit also isn't picked up by the rest of the Amazons on Themyscira, as Agent Z notes, and doesn't really fit with everyday traditional clothing on real tropical islands either.

[Koriand'r]

Then why is she the only Amazon who dresses like that?

On the other hand, the connections between Themyscira and ancient Greece are well-established, including placing Themyscira somewhere off Turkey's coast to the Black Sea. The swimsuit also isn't picked up by the rest of the Amazons on Themyscira, as Agent Z notes, and doesn't really fit with everyday traditional clothing on real tropical islands either.

In Wonder Woman #1 the other Amazons wore even less.

WW PARADISE 1.jpg

Fun fact in the flashback to the Amazons fighting Hercules, his men wore armor and battle skirts, the Amazons wore chiffon.

[Agent Z]

In Wonder Woman #1 the other Amazons wore even less.

WW PARADISE 1.jpg

Fun fact in the flashback to the Amazons fighting Hercules, his men wore armor and battle skirts, the Amazons wore chiffon.

Those outfits at least have skirts. Not quite the same as the swim suit. I'd argue they are closer to the current outfit.

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman is from Themyscira not ancient Greece. It's a tropical island, the swimsuit fits her culture.

Paradise Island started regularly getting called Themyscira in Post-Crisis, didn't it? Since then, how many of the Amazons wear an outfit like her swimsuit?

Even In Earth One, it didn't come from Amazonia. It was a hazing from Etta and the Holliday Girls.