So are the Superman: Earth One books generally hated?

[Ascended]

Your reply surprises me. You consider JMS a comics guy?

I think what you're asking for is what they delivered by bringing in a writer as great as JMS to work on Superman. He both did the "real" superman in the main books and also got to try his own reboot version in Earth One.

I agree with the people that say American Alien is a better way to cover a similar "young adult clark" period in time but I am glad Earth One exists.

JMS is sort of both a comics guy and a tv guy at the same time, but Im pretty sure hes more of a comics guy than anything.

But whether he's a tv guy or a comics guy or both, I still think a renewed effort on E-1 should bring in people from beyond comics. I mean, other than JMS, they've had who, Morrison, Johns, Lemire.....all comics guys. Yeah, they've all dipped their feet in other media formats, but they're still comic guys. Im looking for someone who has never written a comic in their life.

[LordUltimus]

JMS is sort of both a comics guy and a tv guy at the same time, but Im pretty sure hes more of a comics guy than anything.

But whether he's a tv guy or a comics guy or both, I still think a renewed effort on E-1 should bring in people from beyond comics. I mean, other than JMS, they've had who, Morrison, Johns, Lemire.....all comics guys. Yeah, they've all dipped their feet in other media formats, but they're still comic guys. Im looking for someone who has never written a comic in their life.

So you're looking for someone with no experience?

[Ascended]

So you're looking for someone with no experience?

I'm looking for someone with a new perspective.

Writing for the graphic novel format isnt rocket science. If someone can write a movie script or novel they can write a comic. There's certain quirks to the format that these writers would have to be told about (like you put cliffhanger moments on odd pages so the reader wants to turn the page) but that's a thirty minute discussion with an editor, nothing more.

At most, you'd have to make sure the editor had enough backbone to do his job and not just "yes man" the writer. A lot of people aren't going to feel comfortable telling, I dunno, Steven King, that he needs to re-work a scene.

[Kuwagaton]

King, Uslan, Goyer, Donner, and many others from film and novels have written comics. I think it's not all that fair to comic writers by profession to assert that those folks are inherently better, and it's yet to reflect an advantage regardless of editor or personal interest. Except for JMS, I guess. But I can definitely see the merit in changing perspective.

[Vordan]

So you're looking for someone with no experience?

Neil Gaiman had no experience writing comics when he started Sandman. Sometimes you take a risk and it works out. Sometimes it flops. That’s the nature of the business. I’d rather they take a chance on someone new then continuously rely on the same people over and over again.

[Ascended]

King, Uslan, Goyer, Donner, and many others from film and novels have written comics. I think it's not all that fair to comic writers by profession to assert that those folks are inherently better, and it's yet to reflect an advantage regardless of editor or personal interest. Except for JMS, I guess. But I can definitely see the merit in changing perspective.

And the show runners from Agent Carter wrote Captain Marvel too. And there's Weisman, and Berlanti, and I dont know who else.

There's actually a fair amount of cross over, especially in recent years. But I'm not saying the tv or novel guys are "better" Im saying I want to see a proven, popular author from another industry who hasn't done comics and superheroes before.

[Kuwagaton]

Well, Weisman started in comics. I'll always know and like him best as Cap Atom co-writer. Not that he couldn't be as good or better if his career went in different order, sure. But if the problem for them "at most" is dealing with a submissive editor and not the difficulties actual comic writers deal with in execution, that sounds either like they are better suited for comics or that comic writers are particularly less qualified to write comics. Technically anyone can write a graphic novel with or without coaching, but I'm not sure how likely anyone is to become the next JMS in 30 minutes of it.

Neil Gaiman had no experience writing comics when he started Sandman.

Huh? Neil Gaiman had a few years of experience before Sandman. That's how he got Sandman, and how most people who stay around and gather acclaim do it.

[Vordan]

Hm looks like you’re right. Odd I remember Gaiman talking about how he was approached out of the blue to write Sandman.

[Yoda]

Black Orchid was his first comic work I believe.

[Ascended]

if the problem for them "at most" is dealing with a submissive editor and not the difficulties actual comic writers deal with in execution, that sounds either like they are better suited for comics or that comic writers are particularly less qualified to write comics. Technically anyone can write a graphic novel with or without coaching, but I'm not sure how likely anyone is to become the next JMS in 30 minutes of it.

Any writer worth their salt should be able to transition between formats (as we see plenty of comic writers do all the time as they write tv scripts, novels, etc). It has nothing to do with comics being harder or easier to write or comic writers being better or worse than other writers. If someone can write a movie script, they already basically know how to write a comic, the biggest difference is pacing things for the page turn. A novelist is going to have a steeper learning curve, sure, but again, for the talented writers? It shouldn't be that big a problem. For example; Brad Meltzer writes comics and novels and as far as I know, didn't have a hard time figuring out how to do both. Jurgens (I think it was Jurgens?) wrote a few novels for the DCU and they were decent (from what I understand). Goyer writes comics and movies. Gaiman writes everything from comics to novels to tv scripts and I dunno what else. If someone can write, and write well, they can do it for any format.....as long as they know the particular idiosyncrasies they're dealing with. Which is where an experienced editor would come in.

Im sure there are writers out there who would struggle with the comic format. But those aren't the kind of people I'd like to see on E-1. I mean, really, do you see someone like George Martin or Steven King or JK Rowling failing to write a good comic?

[Kingcrimsonprog]

I'm new to superman, so don't have the context to tell the difference, but I did enjoy them.

[superduperman]

I don't know that they need non comic book people so much as they just have to let the writer have more creative control than usual. Part of the gimmick behind the EO books is that creators are allowed to do their own thing. Comics is a very controlled environment. It has to be to maintain a stable continuity. Which doesn't really apply here. As long as an editor more or less approves an idea (as in not killing off major characters or anything) they should have the freedom to do their own thing.

[Vordan]

Yeah Earth One was like what Black Label is now: A chance for creators to write stories with the characters without being tied down by continuity.

[superduperman]

Yeah Earth One was like what Black Label is now: A chance for creators to write stories with the characters without being tied down by continuity.

Which begs the question: Is EO even necessary anymore? Why not use the Black Label tag to do out of continuity stories with characters that aren't tied to anything? I like the EO books but when was the last time a Superman book came out? It's already infrequent enough as is.

[Vordan]

Which begs the question: Is EO even necessary anymore? Why not use the Black Label tag to do out of continuity stories with characters that aren't tied to anything? I like the EO books but when was the last time a Superman book came out? It's already infrequent enough as is.

Only real reason to keep EO around is because Johns isn’t done with his Batman book, and I like GL EO and wouldn’t mind more. Superman EO is done. WW EO will be done with the next book. Aquaman and Flash are a ways off if they’re ever coming. I guess a JL EO might be interesting but I doubt that will ever happen.